Panama Hat Thread

[GamaH]

I don't have a Panama to post in this thread (yet), but I'd like people's opinions here on something.

Does anyone own a Stetson Panama, and if so (or not), what is grade 8 Panama straw? Also, between Stetson and Borsalino Panamas, which would be a more well made item? The Borsalino costs considerably more.

 

[cbeeches]

I have both. The Stetson is inferior to my Borsalino. Of course the B cost more, but I think it was worth the extra cash based on the compliments I receive on it. Get what you like, like what you get.

BTW: I got the Borsalino at the famous "Batsakes Hat Shop" in Cincinnati.

 

[danofarlington]

I don't have a Panama to post in this thread (yet), but I'd like people's opinions here on something.

Does anyone own a Stetson Panama, and if so (or not), what is grade 8 Panama straw? Also, between Stetson and Borsalino Panamas, which would be a more well made item? The Borsalino costs considerably more.

This may only partially help. I own a vintage Stetson Panama, and a modern Borsalino expensive Panama. I paid $900 for the Borsalino. It's a superfine quality, thin, and very dense with stitches. The brim is kind of floppy. The Stetson is an Optimo of really excellent quality from the 30s or 20s or something like that. It's good but not as fine as the Borsalino. As for modern Stetson Panama versus Borsalino, does Stetson nowadays even put out a quality Panama hat? All I read about is their shandung hats, made out of I don't know what, that don't rate very high on the scale of a quality hat. I don't know what Grade 8 is, so can't comment on that. But what you get with an expensive Borsalino Panama hat, apart from a fine weave, is the shaping. For my money they shape their hats more attractively than the other makers I have seen. They provoke hat jealousy. Believe it.

 

[monbla256]

I don't have a Panama to post in this thread (yet), but I'd like people's opinions here on something.

Does anyone own a Stetson Panama, and if so (or not), what is grade 8 Panama straw? Also, between Stetson and Borsalino Panamas, which would be a more well made item? The Borsalino costs considerably more.

I would strongly suggest giving Panama Bob a look at for your first Panama purchahse. From what I can see ALL the offerings from Stetson are "Shantung" panama's ( paper "straw") and the Borso's are as usual the genuine thing, though from Bob, the same quality would be less. Check him out :
http://www.panamas.biz/

 

[Aureliano]

Worth & Worth is well known for their straw hats. www.hatshop.com

 

[GamaH]

I have both. The Stetson is inferior to my Borsalino. Of course the B cost more, but I think it was worth the extra cash based on the compliments I receive on it. Get what you like, like what you get.

BTW: I got the Borsalino at the famous "Batsakes Hat Shop" in Cincinnati.

Thank you.

This may only partially help. I own a vintage Stetson Panama, and a modern Borsalino expensive Panama. I paid $900 for the Borsalino. It's a superfine quality, thin, and very dense with stitches. The brim is kind of floppy. The Stetson is an Optimo of really excellent quality from the 30s or 20s or something like that. It's good but not as fine as the Borsalino. As for modern Stetson Panama versus Borsalino, does Stetson nowadays even put out a quality Panama hat? All I read about is their shandung hats, made out of I don't know what, that don't rate very high on the scale of a quality hat. I don't know what Grade 8 is, so can't comment on that. But what you get with an expensive Borsalino Panama hat, apart from a fine weave, is the shaping. For my money they shape their hats more attractively than the other makers I have seen. They provoke hat jealousy. Believe it.

Any help is good help. Thank you.

I would strongly suggest giving Panama Bob a look at for your first Panama purchahse. From what I can see ALL the offerings from Stetson are "Shantung" panama's ( paper "straw") and the Borso's are as usual the genuine thing, though from Bob, the same quality would be less. Check him out :
http://www.panamas.biz/

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look @ Bobs as well. When you say all the offerings from Stetson are shantung, does that mean even what is supposedly called "Grade 8 Panama straw"? (Yes I know what "ALL" means, but this is completely new to me.. Weird that someone would "grade" Shantung straw).

Is there a difference between a Cuenca Panama and just a Panama, and for that matter.. what on earth is an Oriental Panama?

 

[monbla256]

Thank you.



Any help is good help. Thank you.




Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look @ Bobs as well. When you say all the offerings from Stetson are shantung, does that mean even what is supposedly called "Grade 8 Panama straw"? (Yes I know what "ALL" means, but this is completely new to me.. Weird that someone would "grade" Shantung straw).

Is there a difference between a Cuenca Panama and just a Panama, and for that matter.. what on earth is an Oriental Panama?

Take some time and do some research on Panama hat making as opposed to just looking for a hat. It will help you make an informed decision. But remember this: Panama hats are ONLY woven in Ecuador ! There are NO "Oriental Panama" hats. Mabe "Oriental Panama STYLE hats" but these are NOT Panama's. Panama's are mainly woven in two cities in Ecuador, Cuenca and Montecristi hence the name of the type of Panama's. Take your time , do some research then order your first one from Bob

 

[GamaH]

Take some time and do some research on Panama hat making as opposed to just looking for a hat. It will help you make an informed decision. But remember this: Panama hats are ONLY woven in Ecuador ! There are NO "Oriental Panama" hats. Mabe "Oriental Panama STYLE hats" but these are NOT Panama's. Panama's are mainly woven in two cities in Ecuador, Cuenca and Montecristi hence the name of the type of Panama's. Take your time , do some research then order your first one from Bob

If Panamas are only woven in 2 cities in Ecuador, why do almost every single hat store state that they're made in either Italy or USA, depending on the maker?

Is the reason for that:
1) The hat is woven in Italy/USA, and hence isn't a Panama at all.
or
2) The hat is finished in Italy/USA, but still woven in Ecuador?

I've seen some contradicting views on these forums.

For that matter, is a Borsalino Cuenca Panama any good? Danofarlington mentioned that he had a Modern Borso Panama which cost 900 bucks, but the Cuenca is only 225, so I'm assuming that the quality isn't going to be anywhere near what he was stating.

The main (and only, I suppose) reason I'm holding out on a custom hat is that I don't really have a fixed residential address (I have a billing address, but I don't live there) and I don't really know exactly where I'll be staying in say, 2months from now, or how long I'll be there.

It's kinda hard to place an order which requires a few weeks or months of waiting, when you don't know where you'll be in that time.

 

[Aureliano]

As monbla256 said it above (and I was raised in Ecuador) all authentic panama hats are hand woven in Ecuador: in the city of Cuenca in the Andes and in Montecristi and Pile in the coast. Nowhere else.
Borsalino buys their hats in Ecuador, Cuenca and they block them at their factory in Alessandria, Italy. Borsalino straws are nice looking but with them you pay for the brand. I, personally, would stay away.
You're in NYC, you should go visit Worth & Worth so you can see and handle and try a number of different hats of great (and superrrr great) quality. Orlando the owner is knowledgeable and will guide you if you decide to buy. He will give you a quick lesson on weave types and blocking styles. His Cuenca hats are affordable and some of his motecristis, the lower grade, are too. People here love PanamaBob so he is an option, too. But, IMHO, if you're near a hat shop, why not go and handle the goods. No need to buy but just try them on, see what you like. W&W is on 45 West 57th street. They are between 5th and 6th avenues (closer to 6th) on the 6th floor of the building. here are some of their straws. They have much more at the shop. I own the Diamante and love it.
http://www.hatshop.com/site/listStrawPanama.php

 

[alanfgag]

Good advice from Aureliano.

I spent some time handling a $1200 Borsalino panama at J.J. Hat Center last month. I would not recommend going this route.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

By all means listen to Aureliano....

I do not have any hat stores within 3 hour drive of my house, I can't tell you how much money I have spent on hats, panama and otherwise trying to get knowledge or buying what I think I want and then finding out I was wrong.

Go to the store, shop, try them on, ask questions ( write them all down first if you can) it will help when you are there.

Then think about it and read more here and other sites if you want.

You will come up with another list of questions, guaranteed....Perhaps another visit to the shop with new questions and then you might be ready for an informed purchase.. Take your time, the hats will be around , no sense in rushing it.

There is a lot of take into consideration with a Panama selection let someone with knowledge help guide you and then there is the size and fit also.....

Good Luck on your quest....

 

[GamaH]

I was looking through an old thread on this forum - http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?21016-David-Morgan-feather-weight-panama/page5

Art Fawcett said:
We have all seen retailers ( heck, one of the largest, oldest hat companies in the world) list panama's as "Montecristi"s" where by simple inspection are clearly Cuenca Brisa's. In the case of the italian hat company that seems to be guilty of this the most has been contacted to let them know that their advertising is incorrect and the response is one of "we don't care".

Would anyone be able to tell me what company he's referring to?

 

[Lefty]

It was Borsalino, as discussed in this thread - which has been heavily edited. Bencraft doesn't list any Borso Montecristis that I noticed, so either the model was discontinued, the markings changed, etc.

 

[GamaH]

It was Borsalino, as discussed in this thread - which has been heavily edited. Bencraft doesn't list any Borso Montecristis that I noticed, so either the model was discontinued, the markings changed, etc.

Thought so. I came across that thread earlier as well. Didn't think of connecting the dots. Anyway it seems that Bencraft only carries the Cuenca now.

 

[HatsEnough]

I know exactly nothing about straws. I have two, however, and won't likely get any more than that.

I have a Stetson (paid more than I wanted to at $100) and a Lee (better at only $50) and neither were made anytime after 1960 to my knowledge.

Stetson "Genuine Panama" (2-3/4 inch brim)

This Stetson is lite as air, by the way.

Lee "Grand Plantation" (3 inch brim)

They both say "Genuine Panama," but I haven't a clue if that is real or if it is just a sales gimmick?

Anyone have any input on if these are good straws?

Anyway, I like them whether they are "officially" good or not!

 

[Aureliano]

So I decided to sell grandpa's Semi-Calado. It's here in the classifieds.

 

[monbla256]

I know exactly nothing about straws. I have two, however, and won't likely get any more than that.

I have a Stetson (paid more than I wanted to at $100) and a Lee (better at only $50) and neither were made anytime after 1960 to my knowledge.

Stetson "Genuine Panama" (2-3/4 inch brim)

This Stetson is lite as air, by the way.

Lee "Grand Plantation" (3 inch brim)

They both say "Genuine Panama," but I haven't a clue if that is real or if it is just a sales gimmick?

Anyone have any input on if these are good straws?

Anyway, I like them whether they are "officially" good or not!

And well you should like 'em. Those are two very nice older Panama's ! Both look to be Cuenca's with the Stetson being a Brisa weave and the Lee a Llano weave. Wear them proudly

 

[HatsEnough]

Thanks for the info Monbla. I will look those terms up and learn a bit about them.

 

[monbla256]

Thanks for the info Monbla. I will look those terms up and learn a bit about them.

Here's a link to a good photo showing the difference in the weaves on Panama Bob's site. He explains the differences well also.

http://www.panamas.biz/cuenca.html

 

[GamaH]

Question: Optimo Hats' Montecristi Panamas. Good/Bad? I understand that if I were to ask whether it's "worth" the price, there isn't a correct answer because only I can answer that, but I suppose what I mean by good/bad is how it is in relation to other Panamas for the same price (495 I think).

Opinions, anyone?

Edit: I caused some confusion yesterday regarding Optimo Hats and the 'optimo' style. I'm referring to the hat maker in this post.