'Orphan' A-2 jackets

[MrBern]

Is there anyway to date the older Avirex A-2?

I have one that I love & everyone comments it must be older production as the more recent ones are...lackluster.

 

[H.Johnson]

Dating Avirex is difficult as the 'made up' contract number on the label was introduced in 1978 and was used for years. To make it harder to judge the company made some decent horsehide jackets alongside its 'less authentic' (whatever that means) lines. Additionally, the 'tell-tale' bobbly wool knits appear to have been used for a long time, too.

I would say that the thing that appears to have changed with these jackets over the years is the cut. The early patterns were allegedly taken directly from jackets in Jeff Clyman's collection and are very trim. Later examples (early 1980s onward) are more 'modern' in cut. Since 'cut' is subjective, that doesn't help much, does it? Sorry.

 

[WineGuy]

Circa 1986 Avirex Flying Tigers A-2 Jacket

Hi all, I was searching the web to see if I could find a replacement for my cherished jacket and came across your forum. Needless to say I'm thrilled to be a part of it and would love to know if anyone has or has seen a similar example to my jacket.
I purchased this jacket in the summer of 1986 while walking on 2nd ave in the 20's in Manhattan. I'll never forget that it was about 96 degrees out and a leather store was having a sale and the female co-worker I was with asked to go in for a peek. As she tried on shoes I spied a rack full of Avirex jackets that were on sale and decided to browse. My eyes lit up when I saw this AVG jacket marked down from $300 to $160...and it was my size(48). People looked at me like I was crazy as I paraded up 2nd ave wearing a thick leather jacket on such a day but I was the proud owner of the coolest piece of aviation history I had ever seen and was prepared to swelter all the back to the office.
Over the last few days of searching I was overwhelmed at how specialized the A-2 had become, Avirex was the only game in town for serious quality and yet now I see it is maligned by all the hard core enthusiasts. I for one think the jacket is remarkably well made, it has held up over 23 years for me and I never babied it...when I needed to lie on my back on wet pavement in the pouring rain to find a screw in my cars wheel i did not even think twice. Our heroes in WWII made their jackets work for them and so would I. The embroidery in the lining is top notch and I have not seen anything like it since. The zipper is bulletproof and the only thing really to fall apart were the knit cuffs.
I now need to find a replacement because I had "Lap-Band" surgery and have dropped over 40 pounds in three months, I went from a size 50 to a 46 which is now loose on me so I'm researching the cut and styles of the more accurate A-2's which everyone says has a more trim fit. Any input would be welcome.

Sorry eclairvaux, can you open these new links?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/3421799909_55b09faf59.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3310/3422609248_91ed45d1d3.jpg?v=0

BTW: can anyone tell me how to imbed the photos so they appear in the text, I'm new to forum posting.

 

[eClairvaux]

Unfortunately those links to your pics don't work for me WineGuy

 

[WineGuy]

New links for A-2 photos

Thanks for bringing to my attention, I reposted the picks using Flikr and hopefully they will work now. I'm new to forum posting so please let me know if these show or not. Also, do you know how to post pics that actually show in the text?

 

[WineGuy]

Hi all, I was searching the web to see if I could find a replacement for my cherished jacket and came across your forum. Needless to say I'm thrilled to be a part of it and would love to know if anyone has or has seen a similar example to my jacket.
I purchased this jacket in the summer of 1986 while walking on 2nd ave in the 20's in Manhattan. I'll never forget that it was about 96 degrees out and a leather store was having a sale and the female co-worker I was with asked to go in for a peek. As she tried on shoes I spied a rack full of Avirex jackets that were on sale and decided to browse. My eyes lit up when I saw this AVG jacket marked down from $300 to $160...and it was my size(48). People looked at me like I was crazy as I paraded up 2nd ave wearing a thick leather jacket on such a day but I was the proud owner of the coolest piece of aviation history I had ever seen and was prepared to swelter all the back to the office.
Over the last few days of searching I was overwhelmed at how specialized the A-2 had become, Avirex was the only game in town for serious quality and yet now I see it is maligned by all the hard core enthusiasts. I for one think the jacket is remarkably well made, it has held up over 23 years for me and I never babied it...when I needed to lie on my back on wet pavement in the pouring rain to find a screw in my cars wheel i did not even think twice. Our heroes in WWII made their jackets work for them and so would I. The embroidery in the lining is top notch and I have not seen anything like it since. The zipper is bulletproof and the only thing really to fall apart were the knit cuffs.
I now need to find a replacement because I had "Lap-Band" surgery and have dropped over 40 pounds in three months, I went from a size 50 to a 46 which is now loose on me so I'm researching the cut and styles of the more accurate A-2's which everyone says has a more trim fit. Any input would be welcome.

Certainly worn, but it's like a really broken in pair of jeans...it feels so good to wear!

I't may not be true to original, but the hand embroidery and satin red lining is gorgeous. I would replicate it on my next A-2 if possible

 

[kampkatz]

Welcome to the forum Wine Guy. Your jacket looks "comfortable" and well used. You have gotten more than your money's worth out of it. You might keep checking E-bay for something to meet your current needs.

 

[WineGuy]

Avirex A-2 Flying Tigers jacket

Thanks for the welcome Kampkatz, I've been watching ebay for a while and have seen several Avirex AVG jackets for sale but all of them had cream color linings and none had the Chinese characters or the group emblem. I'm wondering if mine is a "one off".

 

[H.Johnson]

Wineguy

Your style features in the Avirex 'Cockpit' catalogue for much of the late 1980s and into the 1990s.

I'm pleased that you have good use from it.

 

[BigHairyFinn]

If anyone got one of those "early" Avirex ones - or some other brand (no side entries, one-piece back, plain liner though that red one is a killer) in say 50L-52L I'm looking for a banger...

 

[BigHairyFinn]

Well, got my "banger"... interesting old Avirex. Plain lining, "genuine goatskin", Scoville Gripper zip, the cut is "ample" but the sizing says "52" and "XL" which I find slightly weird. And a faded "MIL-SPEC A-2" tag. Now it didn't have any patches or anything, but theres stich marks for a large nametag and a shield on the chest. A bit too baggy, but works for the summer, until I can scratch up for an Aero...

 

[442RCT]

Sefton All The Way !

I wanted to contribute to this "orphan" A-2 Jacket thread since I like to adopt orphan A-2s. I want to add to the Sefton's are my favorite A-2 jacket club. Besides my orphan A-2s, I also own 2 Eastmans (a house and a Rough Wear contract), an Aero 1938, and a Real McCoy. After I bought my first Sefton, I liked it so much, I bought a second one that was listed a few weeks later on eBay, and if a third shows up in my size, I'll bid on it too.

The quality and construction of my Seftons are excellant, I've been told they don't represent any contract so aren't 'authentic', but more of a representation of a house A-2. I can only comment about the fit of a sz 40. I'm 5'7" and 150 lbs. When I put on a sz 40 Sefton, I'd swear they were custom fitted for me.

When I received this jacket, the previous owner had removed the glued on shoulder patches, the front patch was sewn on and I'm glad he didn't remove it. I purchased an 8th AF and 48 star flag to cover the round and rectangular glue spots.

The leather is taking on a nice grain and patina. I don't know if this is horsehide or cowhide, compared to my other A-2s, the leather is thicker than most.

 

[WineGuy]

Welcome to the Lounge and this thread 442RCT, I thought the "Orphan" thread had become an orphan...thanks for resuscitating it!

Gorgeous jacket, really nice art work! Can you post some interior shots?

 

[442RCT]

Welcome to the Lounge and this thread 442RCT, I thought the "Orphan" thread had become an orphan...thanks for resuscitating it!

Gorgeous jacket, really nice art work! Can you post some interior shots?

What do you mean by 'interior' shots ? The lining is plain, no embroidery.

 

[WineGuy]

Then I guess no interior shots would be needed.

 

[442RCT]

Sefton No# 2 - Seal Brown

This is my second Sefton, the first was more in the russet catagory, this one is seal brown. Again, I don't know what kind of hides are used, all I know is, he used hides with a lot of 'character'. I guess this would be what is known as 'mismatched' hides, they are especially prevalent on the back of the sleeves and pockets, a lot of graining there. The jacket came with the blood chit sewn on the back. The jacket and lining are in excellent shape, but the knits had holes from mothing, I was going to take a pass due to the cost of replacing the knits None else bid on the jacket, so I won by default. The seller included a set of knits with the jacket and I had them replaced. Since receiving the jacket, I was glad I did buy it, #1 - even with the funky blood chit it's a great jacket. # 2 - Sz 40 Seftons are few and far between on eBay.

 

[442RCT]

AVIATION LEATHERCRAFT - ENGLAND

This is another English made A-2. it's an Aviation Leathercraft A-2. They're known more for their controversial Irvin jackets than their A-2s. Since I'm doing orphan A-2s I don't want to get into the Irvin discussion posted in other threads. I'm guessing this jacket is goat hide or cowhide made to look like goathide, whatever it is it's really a heavy, thick hide. This jacket is a 'trim' sz 42, and is my favorite to wear when I need to layer for the weather.

This jacket has a lot wrong with it if you're going for anything remotely authentic. There's no throat clasp, there's an interior pocket, there's a snap at the bottom of the zipper, and coarse knits to name a few things...but in it's defense, it's a very well made jacket. The best you can say about it is that it's A-2 ish...a true orphan A-2. Not something a re-enactor would deem to wear.

One thing about the orphan A-2 jackets for me is that I don't fuss about patching or painting them. They were relatively inexpensive and since I'm not concerned about any resale value, I can be creative as I want.

All the patches for this India-China-Wing-Air-Transport Command jacket are what is known as pieced patches, including the blood chit on the back. The patches are colored or dyed cut out pieces of leather sewn to make the patch.

 

[H.Johnson]

I think that the workmanship (I can say that, they are made by a man) of Sefton jackets is of the best. Only their lack of 'authenticity' (pah!) places them in the 'orphan' category. It also makes them an absolute bargain when compared to some of the other reproductions.

My russet horsehide Sefton from the mid-90s (much smoother hide than the one above) is my favourite orphan A-2, for the quality of its construction.

 

[442RCT]

Avirex A-2

This is an older, used seal brown Avirex A-2 made of some unknown hide, I'm going to guess it's a light 'spring' weight cowhide, if it were horse, Avirex probably would have put a label stating that it was horsehide in the liner. Whatever kind of leather it is, it's got good grain.

Compared to the newer Avirex jackets, sizing tends to run to what is termed as a trim military fit. This jacket is a size 40 and fits like a 40. It's a mil spec type A-2, it's got the snap down collar, the throat latch, two pockets, brown cloth liner and a one piece back. It's not a copy of any specific contract, being more or less a generic 'house' A-2.

In my opinion, the knits are this jackets weakest points. The wrist knits tend to pill and have stretched with wear, the waist knit pills, but there seems to be an extra elastic band sewn into the knit band that keeps it from losing it's stretch. If the knits are any indication of the wear on this jacket, the leather is holding up very well, no rips, tears or worn spots. The previous owner looked like he had an AAF wing and star painted or transferred onto the shoulder, it's worn off and a round blue patch size smudge remains. Overall, I like this jacket, it'd be a good painter or patcher for someone so inclined. On eBay, these will usually go for less than $ 100, of course the better the condition, the more will be bid.

 

[442RCT]

Avirex Horse Hide

The Avirex/Cockpit horse hide A-2 has already been reviewed by Captaincaveman, I'll just add my impressions.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=48421

I purchased this jacket on eBay and thought it would be in a "military trim fit". It's one of Avirex's newer horse hide jackets in what I would call their mil spec pattern; snap down collar, throat latch, etc.. The sizing is a very generous, blousy fit...more of a 43-44 than a 42. if you have a build that requires a more roomy fit, this jacket will be for you.

The jacket is nice enough, the seal brown leather is very soft and supple for horse hide. There's an absence of graining, the leather is relatively smooth. For those who desire a creased, grainy character to their A-2, you may have to work the leather to get it, only time will tell. For those who want more of a dressy jacket, this horse would be for you.