'Orphan' A-2 jackets

[Fifty150]

My orphan A-2, my very first A-2, was an LLBean A-2 (don't laugh) from back when they were still made in America. It does have non-standard hand warmer pockets and an inside pocket, but otherwise it is a pretty good repro. Nice goatskin, collar stand, single piece back, two piece sleeves, a Scoville zipper, and Scoville snaps.

I've had it since I was a young pup, and it has stood me well. I'm wearing it, yep still fits, in my avatar -- with my real young pup, Barney. It's a great beater jacket for hiking in the woods.

Cheers, Mac

Mine was the same jacket, and I still have it. The LL Bean jacket was actually made in San Francisco by Golden Bear. I bought mine directly from the factory. 20+ years later, and this jacket has only gotten better with time. I only wish I could still fit into it. Today, this jacket has been cleaned and is in storage waiting to be handed down to the next generation. Some lucky kid in my family will be able to wear it for motorcycle riding, bar fighting, street racing, and heart breaking.

The Golden Bear has been around since the 1920's, Over the years, Golden Bear has supplied many generations of my family; from high school letter jackets to police department issued motorcycle jackets.

 

[HeyMoe]

I have two Coopers and one Flight Apparel Inc A-2s. One of the Coopers is older and of better quailty than the other. The first Cooper I have painted to replicate the jacket that a friend wore in WWII (Co-pilot of Hey Moe http://hey_moe.tripod.com ) The other is set up as a 101st Airborne 502nd PIR jacket (my old unit).

My Flight Apparel A-2 was a recent ebay purchase and is by far the best of the three. I will be keeping this jacket plain with the exception of a name tag. While I would like to get a high quaility jacket, it just isn't in the cards right now and to be honest the Flight Apparel A-2 looks pretty close for my tastes and has passed the "Veteran Test" a few times when WWII Vets have asked me if it was my Grandfather's jacket.

 

[442RCT]

Jacket Back

I have two Coopers and one Flight Apparel Inc A-2s. One of the Coopers is older and of better quailty than the other. The first Cooper I have painted to replicate the jacket that a friend wore in WWII (Co-pilot of Hey Moe http://hey_moe.tripod.com ) The other is set up as a 101st Airborne 502nd PIR jacket (my old unit).

I'd like to see pics of your Hey Moe paint job.

 

[HeyMoe]

I'll toss them online tonight in your other thread

 

[Fletch]

I have a horsehide Cockpit bought in 2007 that has really broken in nicely. Despite being cut largeish and having that way-too-perfect chromed finish ("paint" to us jacketheads), I gave it a hot watering when new and it shrank and grained up well. The main goofs on it are the synthetic knitting and the big, close-set pockets that say "civvy jacket."

About Flight Apparel - be careful and get a waist measure above the knits! I snagged a size 44 FAI A-2 off eBay that should have fit me well - the chest measured 50" - but the waist was so tapered down I couldn't zip it closed!

 

[HeyMoe]

I
About Flight Apparel - be careful and get a waist measure above the knits! I snagged a size 44 FAI A-2 off eBay that should have fit me well - the chest measured 50" - but the waist was so tapered down I couldn't zip it closed!

Yup, my FAI size 44 was like that so I got it zipped and wore it basically two days straight. Stretched the waist out enough that it fits quite well now.

 

[442RCT]

Flight Apparel Industries A-2

I recently acquired an FAI A-2 in sz 38. I'd seen many on eBay in the past and held off bidding on a size 40 because the measurements given were usually too big for me to wear. In Aeros, Seftons and some Eastmans, I'm a sz 40. The sz 38 FAI fits me with the body and sleeves being about 2 inches longer than an Aero sz 40. I sent it out for a paint job and won't bother with trying to 'shrink' it with the infamous HWT (Hot Water Treatment). Your comments about the waistband being slim are the same as my experience, I have a 32 inch waist, so I can zip the jacket up.

 

[Fletch]

Tell me, what hide is your FAI? Mine's either cow or heavily processed horse.

 

[442RCT]

Tell me, what hide is your FAI? Mine's either cow or heavily processed horse.

I dunno if this was asked of me or to Hey Moe, since we both have FAI jackets, I'll respond along with him. My jacket has no label as to type of leather, but the surface finish/graining appears to be more like my goatskin Cooper A-2s than any of my HH jackets. It could be processed cow to give it a goat grain, or it could be goat. [huh] I don't see why they'd bother to make the leather look like goat. If I were to bet, I'd say it was goatskin.

 

[HeyMoe]

Mine looks like either HH or Cow, not really all that stiff so I am inclined to think it is Cow (no real grain in the leather)

 

[442RCT]

Mine looks like either HH or Cow, not really all that stiff so I am inclined to think it is Cow (no real grain in the leather)

I remember reading a thread somewhere about horsehide vs cowhide. Someone stated you can't tell the difference by looking at it, a DNA test had to be done. I took a Willis & Geiger A-2 to a cobbler to revive and re-dye the leather. I asked if he could tell what kind of leather it was. He smelled the leather and said it was horse hide, cowhide had a different, more 'domestic' odor, where horse had a 'wild' odor. :eusa_doh: The guys on VLJ said it didn't pass the smell test.

 

[HeyMoe]

VLJ?

I actually really like the FAI jacket. There is something about it that just does it for me, it's much better than my coopers and it's nice knowing I am not banging around in my Jeep in a $1000.00 leather jacket.

 

[442RCT]

VLJ?

I actually really like the FAI jacket. There is something about it that just does it for me, it's much better than my coopers and it's nice knowing I am not banging around in my Jeep in a $1000.00 leather jacket.

VLJ (Vintage Leather Jackets Forum)
http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/

This forum pretty much concentrates on flight jackets.

I understand about banging around in an expensive jacket vs a not so expensive jacket. I have two tiers of jackets in my collection, one for every day wear and one where scuffs and scrapes may happen. :eusa_doh:

 

[Edward]

I dunno if this was asked of me or to Hey Moe, since we both have FAI jackets, I'll respond along with him. My jacket has no label as to type of leather, but the surface finish/graining appears to be more like my goatskin Cooper A-2s than any of my HH jackets. It could be processed cow to give it a goat grain, or it could be goat. [huh] I don't see why they'd bother to make the leather look like goat. If I were to bet, I'd say it was goatskin.

The average punter for a mainstream, mass produced jacket (as opposed to the typical Aero / ELC / GW / LW customer) probably won't know or care that there are different types of leather. Depends on the design spec, though. I suppose it's not entirely out of the question that they might have processed goat to look like cow, as the USN did this with the G1 for years (maybe still do?).

 

[Dinerman]

Just picked this older repro up. Any idea as to the maker?

 

[thor]

Dinerman, that orphan A-2 looks like an old Willis & Geiger. They used that large-puller Scovill zip and had that distinctive grayish-taupe rayon lining.

 

[Juanito]

You know, there's never been a better time for beer or reproduction A-2 jackets. The microbrews that seem to exponentially multiply each day and the range of jackets John Chapman is producing (among others) is simply astounding. I am fortunate to be alive now and to have these interests.

The funny thing though, is that now as I approach 50, for some reason I am schlepping around looking for "orphan" A-2s. So far I have found a W&G horsehide jacket from the 1980's and a Mac Arthur HH Avirex jacket exactly like the one I had in college. I am not exactly sure why; maybe it is that I am trying to recapture my youth, or it's the excitement of looking for jackets of that era when as another stated that you couldn't just click on what you wanted and type in you CC number; when the chase was as nearly as important as the acquisition, or that I am simply not sure the marginal difference or utility is 15x the difference between a $100 eBay purchase of a solid Avirex or Willis and Geiger and a $1,500 Goodwear replica( absolutely no disservice to JC, or his jackets which are the best out there, bar none).

The fact of the matter is that while the jackets weren't technically accurate, they were the best available at the time and it doesn't diminish what they were. The thing that surprises me is just how much variation there was amount the original A-2s. I remember several years ago AERO being crucified for having the side seam topstiched in the "wrong" direction. Ironically, some of the rarer A-2s were stitched similarly--Spiewak comes to mind. Does it make a difference? You make the call.

It's the stories created in them that are priceless. In all honesty the orphans were/are not bad jackets. I distinctly remember walking home in the pouring rain of Oregon after a long night of partying at Oregon State University in the Avirex horsehide A-2. One of my shoulders got slightly damp, otherwise, my upper body was dry. A couple of years later I had upgraded and did the same thing in an Eastman jacket (one of the first horsehide A-2 in the US in 1990), I was soaked to the bone, my T-shirt was orange from either the dye of the leather or the lining and it took days for the jacket to dry out. It might as well have been a sponge! In any case, unforgettable memories were created in an A-2, regardless of maker, but to paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield, they "just don't no get respect!" I'll post a photo of my ratty old LW Dubow A-2 that's has been though 20 years of hell and back and literally around the world. It's what I grab when I don't know what's around the corner or what to expect.

 

[Blackadder]

You know, there's never been a better time for beer or reproduction A-2 jackets. The microbrews that seem to exponentially multiply each day and the range of jackets John Chapman is producing (among others) is simply astounding. I am fortunate to be alive now and to have these interests.

The funny thing though, is that now as I approach 50, for some reason I am schlepping around looking for "orphan" A-2s. So far I have found a W&G horsehide jacket from the 1980's and a Mac Arthur HH Avirex jacket exactly like the one I had in college. I am not exactly sure why; maybe it is that I am trying to recapture my youth, or it's the excitement of looking for jackets of that era when as another stated that you couldn't just click on what you wanted and type in you CC number; when the chase was as nearly as important as the acquisition, or that I am simply not sure the marginal difference or utility is 15x the difference between a $100 eBay purchase of a solid Avirex or Willis and Geiger and a $1,500 Goodwear replica( absolutely no disservice to JC, or his jackets which are the best out there, bar none).

The fact of the matter is that while the jackets weren't technically accurate, they were the best available at the time and it doesn't diminish what they were. The thing that surprises me is just how much variation there was amount the original A-2s. I remember several years ago AERO being crucified for having the side seam topstiched in the "wrong" direction. Ironically, some of the rarer A-2s were stitched similarly--Spiewak comes to mind. Does it make a difference? You make the call.

It's the stories created in them that are priceless. In all honesty the orphans were/are not bad jackets. I distinctly remember walking home in the pouring rain of Oregon after a long night of partying at Oregon State University in the Avirex horsehide A-2. One of my shoulders got slightly damp, otherwise, my upper body was dry. A couple of years later I had upgraded and did the same thing in an Eastman jacket (one of the first horsehide A-2 in the US in 1990), I was soaked to the bone, my T-shirt was orange from either the dye of the leather or the lining and it took days for the jacket to dry out. It might as well have been a sponge! In any case, unforgettable memories were created in an A-2, regardless of maker, but to paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield, they "just don't no get respect!" I'll post a photo of my ratty old LW Dubow A-2 that's has been though 20 years of hell and back and literally around the world. It's what I grab when I don't know what's around the corner or what to expect.

I remember lusting after those Avirex with artwork in the 80s. I was quite young then and won't be able to fit into one but that does not stop me from wanting one.
Regarding your Eastman soak thru episode, it may have to do with the veg tanned leather used in latter high end repros. The chrome tanned leather has much better resistance to water. I had a LW for a very short while. Couldn't make out if it's veg tanned or chrome tanned. Sold it because it's too long.

 

[Juanito]

I remember lusting after those Avirex with artwork in the 80s. I was quite young then and won't be able to fit into one but that does not stop me from wanting one.
Regarding your Eastman soak thru episode, it may have to do with the veg tanned leather used in latter high end repros. The chrome tanned leather has much better resistance to water. I had a LW for a vet short while. Couldn't make out if it's veg tanned or chrome tanned. Sold it because it's too long.

It was indeed veg tanned and Eastman's first foray into horsehide as I was told when I bougt it. In fact, I had to wait for about 4-5 months becuase it was the first of the horse A-2's.

 

[Juanito]

An orphan's story...

Back in the mid 1980's when I was in college, I spent the astronomical sum of $355 to buy an Avirex MacArthur A-2 (tuition at Oregon State was $483 a term). At the time with no internet and such, it was the closest thing I could find to an original.. It wasn't a bad jacket at all and was quite an "improvement" over the L.L. Bean "A-2" I had been wearing. I wore that thing every day, partied in it, slept in it, rode my motorcycle in it...I did not treat the jacket kindly, but it took everything I dished out at it.

About 2 years after I had owned it, after a long night of studying, I draped it over the back of my chair in my room of the fraternity I lived at and went to bed on the sleeping porch. The next morning the jacket was gone! The house wasn't exactly secure, but my room was in the middle of four decks and at the end of a hall, right next to the porch--literally in the bowels of a very large 1920's house. Needless to say I was a little depressed over this. If I make it to heaven, the first question I am going to ask, is how hat jacket disappeared.

In any case, I bought a real Bronco A-2 to replace it. $400 was the price, again, an astronomical sum at the time for a college student. Not a bad jacket, but all the "soft" parts had been replaced and the sewing job looked like it had been done by a palsied drunk.

So...walking to class about 5 months later, not less than 1/2 a block from the house was a bum wearing my jacket! I ran up to him with one other guy and told him that was my jacket. I expected him to run, but he didn't and said he had traded it for a pack of cigarettes from another bum. I offered him what I could scrounge up; $7 in my pocket plus $5 from my friend. He was more than happy to let me have it for $12 and I was ecstatic to have it back. Unfortunately while it really wasn't any worse for the wear, it was dirty and it simply REEKED as you would expect from a bum who wore it constantly for 5 months in a winter in Oregon and never bathed.

I tried everything from airing it out in the sun for days to wiping it down, from Lexol to Lysol. Nothing would remove the aroma of cigarettes and BO. I didn't think one could actually wash a leather jacket (even thought if you watch the USAAF Thunderbolt documentary, there is a guy washing his A-2 in a washing machine), so I broke down, took it to the cleaner and spent the $45 to clean it. It did come back odor free, but shiny as something John Shaft would wear in the 1970's. I never could get the shine off of it, and the finish was never "right". I hung onto the jacket but went down the road in about 1991 in pursuit of a Cable A-2, and I never gave it another thought.

Fast forward 25 years. I am not sure why, but my interest has turned back to the orphans and I score an identical Avirex MacArthur horse A-2 for $60. The jacket is literally like new, but it must have been hung in a house with chain smokers, as it reeks like cigarettes (odd how the seller never mentioned this...).

So, the great experiment begins...it's not going to the dry cleaner, it's going into the Maytag. Lord knows I can't screw it up more than the cleaner and washing it is basically free...

I'll let you know how it turns out in a couple of days...