Ok, so some things in the golden era were not too cool...

[Dan Allen]

The GE freezer that my mother bought the year I was born is still freezing right along. The only thing lacking by today's standards is that it isn't frost free. I turned 66 this summer. I would hesitate to guess the deference in power consumption of it and today's units, but that is perhaps another discussion.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My point is that it is certianly not accurate, bordering on comical, to suggest that older appliances were necessarily "trouble free". They weren't. They were simply so expensive that it was more economical to have them repaired, consequently people kept them longer. Your take on that is that this must mean the newer ones are junk. Another perspective (like the one from Barron's) is that the cost today is so much lower that it's more economical to buy a new one than to keep repairing the old one. And while both perspectives are related to the "value" of the product, neither really is related to "quality".

Bro. Vitanola was precisely right in describing our problem with the coolers -- they were, quite bluntly, poorly-engineered junk. The compressor was designed to fit in a small space -- which, unfortunately, left it undersized for the size of the coolers, and did not permit free air circulation. As a result, the compressors overheat, boil off the refrigerant, and eventually cause the mechanism itself to sieze. And no nipple is included in the lines to recharge the refrigerant -- they make a system that is bound to fail under ordinary use, and then make it impossible to repair it.

Some businesses might be able to afford to replace their coolers every five years. We aren't one of them.

When I got my Kelvinator, in 1988, the thermostat had failed -- not thru use, but by physical trauma, something had bashed into it and fractured the mechanism. I bought a replacement part for, I think, $12 or so, and installed it myself in about ten minutes with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. The refrigerator was over forty years old when I got it, and has been running for the past twenty-five years, and other than defrosting it every six months, it has required no further service of any kind.

When someone can show me a modern appliance that can match that record, I'll be impressed. Let's talk again in 2063. (I'll be dead by then, but leave a message and I'll get back to you.)

 

[vitanola]

My point is that it is certianly not accurate, bordering on comical, to suggest that older appliances were necessarily "trouble free". They weren't. They were simply so expensive that it was more economical to have them repaired, consequently people kept them longer. Your take on that is that this must mean the newer ones are junk. Another perspective (like the one from Barron's) is that the cost today is so much lower that it's more economical to buy a new one than to keep repairing the old one. And while both perspectives are related to the "value" of the product, neither really is related to "quality".

Well, I have had a great deal of experience with both modern and vintage appliances, and can state without fear of informed contradiction that the build quality of pre-1960 appliances is universally better. Period.

How many kitchens have you built in the past thirty years? How many refrigerators and ranges have you purchased? I am speaking as a serial renovator from some quite considerable experience. I am very well pleased indeed that the winds have fashion have blown vintage-inspired kitchens into some level of acceptability.

Now, modern appliances often are equipped with wonderful features which were not available at any price sixty years ago, but even their own makers admit that they are not designed to last as long as were the older units.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

My parents purchased an old house in 1961. It had a large cast iron gas water heater. It still has a large cast iron water heater, the same one. The basement has been flooded at least a couple of times over the past 50 years too. Hope I'm not Jinxing it.

Later

 

[vitanola]

The GE freezer that my mother bought the year I was born is still freezing right along. The only thing lacking by today's standards is that it isn't frost free. I turned 66 this summer. I would hesitate to guess the deference in power consumption of it and today's units, but that is perhaps another discussion.

Actually the power consumption of pre-1953 refrigeration machines is quite moderate. Until the late 1950's electricity was quite dear. Economy was an important selling point. The early self-defrosting refrigerators were the energy hogs.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Also, I've been in my apartment seven years and, so far, the refrigerator, oven and microwave have not given us one day of trouble (and it's a rental and the owner put in low-line GE appliances). That said, toasters are complete garbage today. After buying several $40-60ish dollar ones in only a few years as one kept breaking after another and (to Lizzie's point) being told not to even try to repair them, I, about tenish years ago, paid (I think) $200+ for a Delongi toaster for my in-laws and it has worked perfectly (and looks nice) since. I wonder how my 2002 dollars compare to a toaster in 1950s dollar?

We've replaced the microwave in our Green Room (the room where performers wait before going on stage) twice in eight years. Pieces of junk.

As for toasters, I have a Universal manual toaster -- you flip over the bread slices yourself, no thermostat or pop-up mechanism -- which was an inexpensive brand you might get at Woolworth's. I paid a dollar for it at a yard sale in the late 1970's, and have been using it ever since. The only problem I ever have with it is forgetting to turn the toast, but I'd rather spend forty seconds scraping the burned part into the garbage can than forty dollars for a modern unit that won't last. And two hundred dollars for a toaster is inconceivable -- it's just *toast* for cryin' out loud.

 

[HudsonHawk]

How many kitchens have you built in the past thirty years? How many refrigerators and ranges have you purchased? I am speaking as a serial renovator from some quite considerable experience. I am very well pleased indeed that the winds have fashion have blown vintage-inspired kitchens into some level of acceptability.

I have built three, beginning in 1989. I have purchased three refrigerators and ranges. All of them are going strong, none having had any trouble or have had to been repaired in any way. I have never had a friend or family member have to replace any appliance due to its failure.

Now, modern appliances often are equipped with wonderful features which were not available at any price sixty years ago, but even their own makers admit that they are not designed to last as long as were the older units.

The idea that modern appliance are engineered to last 8 years is as comical as older ones were "trouble free".

 

[vitanola]

The GE freezer that my mother bought the year I was born is still freezing right along. The only thing lacking by today's standards is that it isn't frost free. I turned 66 this summer. I would hesitate to guess the deference in power consumption of it and today's units, but that is perhaps another discussion.

Actually the power consumption of pre-1953 refrigeration machines is quite moderate. Until the late 1950's electricity was quite dear. Economy was an important selling point. The pre-1996 self-defrosting refrigerators were the energy hogs.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Some businesses might be able to afford to replace their coolers every five years. We aren't one of them.

Some business can't afford to have them repaired every year.

When I got my Kelvinator, in 1988, the thermostat had failed -- not thru use, but by physical trauma, something had bashed into it and fractured the mechanism. I bought a replacement part for, I think, $12 or so, and installed it myself in about ten minutes with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. The refrigerator was over forty years old when I got it, and has been running for the past twenty-five years, and other than defrosting it every six months, it has required no further service of any kind.

I bought a refrigerator in 1989, built in 1978. It's never had a problem, not with the thermostat, not with the bolts on the door handle. It's been sitting outside in 100-degree heat for the last 12 years. Is my anecdotal evidence just as valid as yours?

When someone can show me a modern appliance that can match that record, I'll be impressed. Let's talk again in 2063. (I'll be dead by then, but leave a message and I'll get back to you.)

Given that my refrigerator is already 35 years old, we can talk again in only 2033. I plan on being around then. Probably still posting in this thread.

 

[vitanola]

The GE freezer that my mother bought the year I was born is still freezing right along. The only thing lacking by today's standards is that it isn't frost free. I turned 66 this summer. I would hesitate to guess the deference in power consumption of it and today's units, but that is perhaps another discussion.

Actually the power consumption of pre-1953 refrigeration machines is quite moderate. Until the late 1950's electricity was quite dear. Economy was an important selling point. The pre-1996 self-defrosting refrigerators were the energy hogs.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Actually the power consumption of pre-1953 refrigeration machines is quite moderate. Until the late 1950's electricity was quite dear. Economy was an important selling point. The pre-1996 self-defrosting refrigerators were the energy hogs.

Pre-1950 refrigerators averaged about 9 cubic feet at a usage of about 350 kwh. Modern fridges average around 20 cf at a usage of around 400 kwh. Modern refrigerators are WAY more energy efficient, just larger.

 

[HudsonHawk]

We've replaced the microwave in our Green Room (the room where performers wait before going on stage) twice in eight years. Pieces of junk.

As for toasters, I have a Universal manual toaster -- you flip over the bread slices yourself, no thermostat or pop-up mechanism -- which was an inexpensive brand you might get at Woolworth's. I paid a dollar for it at a yard sale in the late 1970's, and have been using it ever since. The only problem I ever have with it is forgetting to turn the toast, but I'd rather spend forty seconds scraping the burned part into the garbage can than forty dollars for a modern unit that won't last. And two hundred dollars for a toaster is inconceivable -- it's just *toast* for cryin' out loud.

My grandmother made toast in the oven.

I just build a fire in the backyard, and use an old tree branch to hold the bread.

 

[tonyb]

Thinkin' out loud here ...

Gotta wonder if the (alleged) inferiority (as to longevity, anyway; I got no dog in this fight) of more recently manufactured appliances and other substantial (and costly) home furnishings is of a piece with our increased mobility (in the physical sense, if not necessarily the economic one).

At present I'm helping a close family member relocate some 1,500 miles away. We're in the process of deciding what to take and what to leave behind and replace at the new location. We're determining that much of the stuff will be cheaper to buy than to move, because, well, it's cheap (which is not to say inexpensive, necessarily) stuff. I suspect that many millions of people have come to a similar conclusion in recent years. We'll hit craigslist and the garage sales once we land there.

 

[vitanola]

I have built three, beginning in 1989. I have purchased three refrigerators and ranges. All of them are going strong, none having had any trouble or have had to been repaired in any way. I have never had a friend or family member have to replace any appliance due to its failure.



The idea that modern appliance are engineered to last 8 years is as comical as older ones were "trouble free".

I did my first renovation in '80, and my current makes an even dozen of my own. I've done a further twenty-seven kitchens in various rental properties and another seven for friends and relatives, making a total of 46. Then there are the restaurants...

"Appliance Magazine", a lamented former trade journal which now only maintains an online presence, surveyed its member manufacturers and determined that the typical American market refrigerator of 2006 would have a useful life of between 8 and 14 years, longevity being largely dependent upon original selling price. This is the determination of an industry mouthpiece, which has every reason not to disparage the modern product. Now the original life and extended aging studies of the General Electric Monitor Top machines were published. They are seminal works in the field of statistical quality control. They show that GE was aiming for a forty to fifty year design life, which it must be noted they did not achieve with their early DK and CA models, but did reach with their "Scotch Yoke" design which they introduced in 1933.

Now you do have a point about trouble. Before the universal adoption of direct-drive compressors and chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants in the early 1930's most refrigerators (both home and commercial) required regular maintenance, but the development of the "Beltless Rollolator" by Norge and its subsequent licensing to the industry at large really set the stage for trouble-free, long life refrigerating appliances. So, yes, Vintage (if "vintage" refers to pre-1933 models excepting the General Electric, Kelvinator, Servel and Westinghouse units which accounted for more than 70% of industry sales) refrigerators can be occasionally troublesome.

Now, let's not get started on ranges, which before the 1980's simply did not wear out, they just went out of style.

 

[vitanola]

Pre-1950 refrigerators averaged about 9 cubic feet at a usage of about 350 kwh. Modern fridges average around 20 cf at a usage of around 400 kwh. Modern refrigerators are WAY more energy efficient, just larger.

Where'd you get those numbers?

A General Electric CK-26-A16 of 1937 vintage has a twelve cubic foot cabinet and consumes approximately 1.2 KWH/day. At 350 KWH/month that would be an awfully long month. Remember that in much of the country electricity cost between 12 and 25 cents per kilowatt hour. A machine which consumed sixty or seventy dollars worth of electricity in a month would have been returned after the first electric bill arrived in the post.

I am quite certain of the current consumption of this particular model, because I currently have one running on a Kill-A-Watt meter. I have modified the machine to use a Chloroflourocarbon refrigerant (the old standby R-12) in the place of SO2, and have been monitoring its current consumption to make certain that the compressor is not being overtaxed.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Where'd you get those numbers?

From a Duke University study. I'll try to find a link.

A General Electric CK-26-A16 of 1937 vintage has a twelve cubic foot cabinet and consumes approximately 1.2 KWH/day. At 350 KWH/month that would be an awfully long month. Remember that in much of the country electricity cost between 12 and 25 cents per kilowatt hour. A machine which consumed sixty or seventy dollars worth of electricity in a month would have been returned after the first electric bill arrived in the post.

The numbers I mentioned were 350/400 kwh per year, not month, which appears consistent with your measurements.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Now, let's not get started on ranges, which before the 1980's simply did not wear out, they just went out of style.

Replacing an appliance because it's old and beat up...or because it's avocado green...is another discussion.

 

[vitanola]

Replacing an appliance because it's old and beat up...or because it's avocado green...is another discussion.

Yes. Harvest Gold is so much nicer.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And for what it's worth, I can't imagine ever needing 350 cubic feet of refrigerator space. What do people do nowadays, buy eggs by the gross?

 

[jamespowers]

And for what it's worth, I can't imagine ever needing 350 cubic feet of refrigerator space. What do people do nowadays, buy eggs by the gross?

Obviously you have never had my two sons over for breakfast.

All I know is that my grandparents 1958 electric stove has been in the same spot operating since it was first bought trouble free through three generations now. Dang that has been a long time.