Ok, so some things in the golden era were not too cool...

[vitanola]

Just the sort of corporate consumerist propaganda one would expect from a business publication. It's also a bit disingenuous when you consider that the "lowest priced no-frost" refrigerator freezer in 1956 was in fact close to the top of the line. You could get a regular refrigerator from Sears in 1956 for $149. Consider also that a refrigerator purchased in 1956 was engineered to be far more durable than one purchased today -- the low price of the modern unit is a function of shoddy cut-rate manufacture as much as anything else.

But much more to the point is that regardless of price, you can save even more money by not participating in modern consumerist society. Amazingly enough, it's entirely possible to live a completely satisfying life without a cellphone, a GPS, a digital camera, lightweight waterproof sportswear, high-definition television, or contact lenses, and a twelve-year-old computer you got for free from a box at the side of the road.

Also, note that the Census Bureau placed men's median income in 1956 at $3,600, and that a man working an assembly line job in 1956 typically made 75% of that median income, whereas a man working an assembly line job today typically makes 125% of median income. Compare the market basket of items including housing, schooling, child care and health care that a $3,600 income in 1956 could purchase to that which can be purchased today
with a $42,000 income and the picture is not nearly as rosy as the propaganda from Barrons suggests.

Of course the estimable Miss Maine has already highlighted this point sufficiently, I think/

 

[tonyb]

When it comes to typical manufactured goods, you can have

1) Style/Features
2) Quality
3) Price

Pick any 2 you want. You can't have all three.

As long as Quality is 'good enough', most consumers pick Features and Price, which is why Big Box stores do so well.

I spent the better part of this past summer rehabbing a little rental house my wife and I own. Those who know such things advised me that the amount of rent I might expect to get was influenced to a considerable degree by the "finishes," meaning the floors (wood beats carpeting, generally) and countertops (granite is all the rage) and appliances (gotta have brushed stainless these days).

Well, the refrigerator and stove were new some five or six years ago, and still work just fine, even if they are just Plain Jane white. The formica countertops cleaned up nicely. I'm not one to replace perfectly good stuff, so all that stayed as it was. But I did refinish the original fir floors, seeing how I had to do something with the floors anyway (the cheap-#ss floating bamboo Ikea flooring improperly installed some eight years ago -- a story for another day -- had to go) and the less-costly options weren't less costly enough to scrimp there.

My advisors were right, though. It was the floors that got my price. The renters essentially said as much. And had I replaced the appliances with new stainless units and put in a granite countertop, I quite likely would have gotten more.

It's gotten to where home furnishings are nearly as subject to the whims of fashion as clothing is. Ikea is at the forefront of this phenomenon, what with their furniture and flooring and light fixtures and kitchen cabinets, etc., being quite stylish but generally not very durable. Sadly, the run of what's available at the big box places isn't appreciably better.

Silly me, though, I actually bought a couple of ceiling fixtures there recently. As I was entering the store, I overheard a young man comment to his wife(?) that the key to Ikea's success (the place is a mob scene on the weekends) is that they make cheap crap look good.

Yep, I said to myself, that's it.

 

[jamespowers]

Silly me, though, I actually bought a couple of ceiling fixtures there recently. As I was entering the store, I overheard a young man comment to his wife(?) that the key to Ikea's success (the place is a mob scene on the weekends) is that they make cheap crap look good.

Yep, I said to myself, that's it.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't touch anything from there. :eusa_doh:

 

[LizzieMaine]

Silly me, though, I actually bought a couple of ceiling fixtures there recently. As I was entering the store, I overheard a young man comment to his wife(?) that the key to Ikea's success (the place is a mob scene on the weekends) is that they make cheap crap look good.

Yep, I said to myself, that's it.

When the time comes to engrave the tombstone of 21st Century Consumer Society, there is no question in my mind that that will be the epitaph:

"They made cheap crap look good."

Sic transit ersatz mundi.

 

[Stanley Doble]

And when it comes time to write the epitaph of the 20th century consumer it will be "they used up all the good stuff".

 

[Gregg Axley]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't touch anything from there. :eusa_doh:

Me neither. We don't even have one in town thankfully.
I've found estate sale items, especially furniture, to be a much better bargain.
As long as you know what you are looking at, a good deal can be made.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The only thing I ever bought at Ikea was some shelving material for my dealer space at the antique mall.

 

[3fingers]

And when it comes time to write the epitaph of the 20th century consumer it will be "they used up all the good stuff".

No, I don't think they did. We have collectively decided we don't really want the good stuff, or at least we aren't willing to pay the short term cost to get the long term benefit. Whether we get bored with our current stuff and want new and different and even more stuff, or we have been trained through marketing and media that that is what we want, the effect is the same. I think this applies to people as well as material goods.The mindset is contagious and rubs off on other aspects of our thinking. The potential for the good stuff is still there today. Since we are willing as a society to tolerate the current situation, we encourage it and get more of it.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Of course the old 1956 model probably lasted some 30 or 40 years. Maybe I'm exaggerating a little but the average American still has to toil 116 hours to buy the six replacements when the Home Depot Special gives up the ghost after just a few months. I bought two sprinklers at Lowe's and not only did both last less than two weeks but they also had the exact same defect!

Good grief...where are you buying your refrigerators? I bought mine in 2001, and it's still going strong. I expect it to last at least 20-30 years, same as my water heater, television, telephones, cars, and pretty much everything else I buy. This notion that modern articles are disposable that last only a few months or have to be replaced every few years is ridiculous.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Good grief...where are you buying your refrigerators? I bought mine in 2001, and it's still going strong. I expect it to last at least 20-30 years, same as my water heater, television, telephones, cars, and pretty much everything else I buy. This notion that modern articles are disposable that last only a few months or have to be replaced every few years is ridiculous.

I've got three "commercial quality" cooler units sitting in the basement at work that you're welcome to come haul away. Verdict from the serviceman: unrepairable. All three of these units are less than ten years old.

Twenty-five years for a modern water heater? I've got one my landlord installed nine years ago waiting to be hauled away.

And I promise I won't say anything about the three full-sized refrigerators my mother has had to buy over the past twenty-five years, while my 1945 Kelvinator has continued to purr happily along for that entire quarter-century.

 

[vitanola]

Good grief...where are you buying your refrigerators? I bought mine in 2001, and it's still going strong. I expect it to last at least 20-30 years, same as my water heater, television, telephones, cars, and pretty much everything else I buy. This notion that modern articles are disposable that last only a few months or have to be replaced every few years is ridiculous.

Well, the Frigidaire side-by-side that we purchased in 2003 still runs, save for the ice maker and three broken shelves in the freezer (they are made of a very brittle plastic. Replacements are available for $75.00 a pop). Unfortunately the plastic trim on the front of the machine has turned yellow after exposure to daylight, there is a rust hole in the front door under the ice and water compartment, and the paint on the refrigerator compartemnt door is flaking off in sheets. Meanwhile the 1937 vintage General Electric Monitor Top (Type CG) which the Frigidaire replaced is purring along in the basement. The original Glyptal (synthetic enamel) finish on the GE is in yet in lovely condition, as are all shelves, knobs and fitments.

Our current kitchen, which was built in 2003, was fitted with two Bosch dish-washers, two Panasonic microwave ovens, a GE Profile sealed gas cooktop, a GE Profile sealed electric cooktop, two Broan disappearing hoods, two Kitchen-Aid garbage grinders, one Jenn-Air convection oven and one GE Profile convection oven, and the aforementioned Frigidaire. The Bosch dish washers have each gone through two control boards. Both finally had their internal valves fail due to our rather hard water. They have since been replaced with mid-range Maytag dishwashers, both of which have had THEIR control boards replaced after one nearly caught fire (there was an unadvertised recall for fire safety). The Jenn-Air convection oven is working properly, and we have had tor replace its control board but once. The GE Profile oven failed after three years. The control board failed and locked the machine in self-clean. The service rep claimed that the machine could not be opened in this case, and we replaced that oven with a Frigidaire, which has been relatively trouble-free. The Sealed gas cook top had been reliable, though difficult to clean, save for the incessant "click-click-click" of the random firing of the ignitor, night and day, day and night. The GE Profile electric cooktop has one faulty burner, which cannot be replaced. All four must be replaced together. Two of the burner controls have failed at various times and have been replaced. We are on our second set of knobs, the first lost their indicator marks. One of the Kitchen Aid garbage grinders failed (motor frozen)/. It has been replaced with an In-Sink-E-Rator which seems to be working well enough. The two Panasonic microwave ovens are pretty trouble-free, although they share the photo-reactive plastic trim with some of the other appliances, and are no longer attractive.

Don't get me started on the Pergo Laminate floor, which was also supposed to be trouble free, and don't tell me that modern appliances last twenty years without trouble.



We've had a great deal of experience with n=both modern and vintage kitchen appliances, and the new kitchen that we are currently buildding will be entirely vintage.

 

[vitanola]

I've got three "commercial quality" cooler units sitting in the basement at work that you're welcome to come haul away. Verdict from the serviceman: unrepairable. All three of these units are less than ten years old.

Twenty-five years for a modern water heater? I've got one my landlord installed nine years ago waiting to be hauled away.

And I promise I won't say anything about the three full-sized refrigerators my mother has had to buy over the past twenty-five years, while my 1945 Kelvinator has continued to purr happily along for that entire quarter-century.

I suspect Mr. Hawk may have not had personal experience with the older trouble-free appliances, and so may not know what he's missing.

Oh, and by the way, the expensive power vent gas water heater that we installed in September of 2005 failed last week.

The old 1952 vintage Hotpoint electric water heater that we removed from service in 2005 is still heating water for the bathroom in my workshop.

 

[Fading Fast]

I was thinking about the do-things-last-less-long aspect of this yesterday when the point was raised and think that if people were replacing items more frequently (which I think they are overall, but not for everything and I think part of that has to do with 1. there are more improvements made faster than in the past [TVs are a great example] and, 2. if things really do cost less as a percentage of hours needed to work, people will be more willing to upgrade) and believe that this statistic form the article:

"It's unsurprising, then, that total consumption on food at home, cars, clothing, housing, household furnishings, and utilities fell from more than 50% of Americans' disposable personal income in the 1950s to only 32% today."

argues that even with replacement being more frequent, people are spending less of their disposable income on these things than in the 1950s. My anecdotal life supports that - my Dad paid the same for a TV in the 1960s as I did a few years ago - and mine is a far superior TV (of course, we'll have to wait to see how long it lasts, but I literally paid the same as he did, but I was using 2009 or so dollars). Also, it just "feels" like appliance are less of a big expenditure today than when I was growing up and it also seems that everyone has many of them in their house today versus when I grew up houses in my neighborhood had, at most, one TV, many didn't have washers and dryers (but that is just feel, not measured fact).

Also, I've been in my apartment seven years and, so far, the refrigerator, oven and microwave have not given us one day of trouble (and it's a rental and the owner put in low-line GE appliances). That said, toasters are complete garbage today. After buying several $40-60ish dollar ones in only a few years as one kept breaking after another and (to Lizzie's point) being told not to even try to repair them, I, about tenish years ago, paid (I think) $200+ for a Delongi toaster for my in-laws and it has worked perfectly (and looks nice) since. I wonder how my 2002 dollars compare to a toaster in 1950s dollar?

 

[HudsonHawk]

I suspect Mr. Hawk may have not had personal experience with the older trouble-free appliances, and so may not know what he's missing.

Trouble free? There were people who made a living as refrigerator repair men.

Oh, and by the way, the expensive power vent gas water heater that we installed in September of 2005 failed last week.
The old 1952 vintage Hotpoint electric water heater that we removed from service in 2005 is still heating water for the bathroom in my workshop.

That doesn't mean all applicances made after 1956 last only a few months. My water heater, installed in 1987, is still going strong. It may last another 30 years, it may fail tomorrow. The point is, older applicances were not failure proof, as is suggested.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I've got three "commercial quality" cooler units sitting in the basement at work that you're welcome to come haul away. Verdict from the serviceman: unrepairable. All three of these units are less than ten years old.

Twenty-five years for a modern water heater? I've got one my landlord installed nine years ago waiting to be hauled away.

And I promise I won't say anything about the three full-sized refrigerators my mother has had to buy over the past twenty-five years, while my 1945 Kelvinator has continued to purr happily along for that entire quarter-century.

You have the worst luck at buying refrigerators then. Like a black applicance cloud hanging over your head. Others do not have that problem.

 

[Story]

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — South Florida officials are considering improvements for a memorial and mass grave for hundreds of victims of the 1928 hurricane, still the deadliest natural disaster in state history.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...o-1928-storm-victims-largely-ignored/2820301/

 

[HudsonHawk]

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — South Florida officials are considering improvements for a memorial and mass grave for hundreds of victims of the 1928 hurricane, still the deadliest natural disaster in state history.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...o-1928-storm-victims-largely-ignored/2820301/

I remember my grandparents talking about that strom. They swore it blew all the water out of Lake Okeechobee.

 

[vitanola]

Trouble free? There were people who made a living as refrigerator repair men.



That doesn't mean all applicances made after 1956 last only a few months. My water heater, installed in 1987, is still going strong. It may last another 30 years, it may fail tomorrow. The point is, older applicances were not failure proof, as is suggested.

No, but then there is the Jenn-Air drop-in range installed in my parent's kitchen in 1997, which needed new controllers in 2004, 2009 and this year, and which now needs a new button panel. Their Maytag dishwasher, which was also installed in 1997 failed in 2010 (metal fatique in a hinge). Then there is the gas water heater in their basement which I replaced in August of 2012. The older unit made it but seven years before failure.

I fitted the kitchens in the 7 apartments in a small building that I own with new appliances in 2002. Of the 7 refrigerators, ranges, dishwashers, garbage disposals, microwave/hood combinations and wine coolers, I have replaced three refrigerators, two ranges, four dishwashers, three garbage disposals, in addition to many, many service calls. For a while, I was rebuilding the controllers for the ovens, microwaves and dishwashers myself, as they were all afflicted with faulty electrolytic capacitors.

Yes, there were appliance repairmen seventy years ago, and their services were needed on occasion. It was seldom that a repair exceeded the cost of a new machine, though. These days, a new oven controller will cost two-thirds the cost of a replacement range.

I do my own repair, these days, of antique appliances. GE montior tops are sealed units, so I limit my work to the replacement of deteriorated wiring, repair of starting relay, replacement of thermostats, unsticking of floats and recharges. I'm currently rebuilding a 1024 vintage Frigidaire. The compressor is currently out at a machine shop having modern shaft seals installed. I rebuild ranges, including carbon rod thermostats, though I send plating and enamelling out. As the apartments become vacant, I'm fitting them with vintage style kitchens (with added dishwashers and garbage grinders, of course). I've noticed that a nice, fresh, clean vintage-style kitchen is very popular with prospective tenants.

Note that the design life of a General Electric refrigerator or a Magic Chef gas range was in 1934 between forty and fifty years. The design life of modern kitchen appliances lies between eight and fifteen years. This makes a difference.

I can still get gaskets and replacement parts for a 1929 General Electric refrigerator. Almost no repair parts are available for the sixteen-year-old Frigidaire in my parent's kitchen.

 

[vitanola]

You have the worst luck at buying refrigerators then. Like a black applicance cloud hanging over your head. Others do not have that problem.

No, the problem lies with a certain brand of commercial cooler, which is ow virtually impossible to have economiclally repaired. this is a well-known problem in the refrigeration repair community, just like the awful, short-lived high-speed/high operating temperature Taiwanese compressors that GE used in their late 'Eighties products, which failed so quickly that GE decided to replace all of them (at incredible expense) to save their brand.

 

[HudsonHawk]

No, the problem lies with a certain brand of commercial cooler, which is ow virtually impossible to have economiclally repaired. this is a well-known problem in the refrigeration repair community, just like the awful, short-lived high-speed/high operating temperature Taiwanese compressors that GE used in their late 'Eighties products, which failed so quickly that GE decided to replace all of them (at incredible expense) to save their brand.

My point is that it is certianly not accurate, bordering on comical, to suggest that older appliances were necessarily "trouble free". They weren't. They were simply so expensive that it was more economical to have them repaired, consequently people kept them longer. Your take on that is that this must mean the newer ones are junk. Another perspective (like the one from Barron's) is that the cost today is so much lower that it's more economical to buy a new one than to keep repairing the old one. And while both perspectives are related to the "value" of the product, neither really is related to "quality".