Not to be political but.THIS IS WRONG

[scotrace]

I've removed quote a bit of extra commentary that crosses the line into political discussion.

We'd rather keep this open.

 

[gtdean48]

The "not to be political..." statement was targeted to what seems to be happening = "not to be Liberal, Moderate, Conservative, or any slant..."
America is all of these & so much more. The US Flag is for all of these & more....

 

[tonyb]

Not to tell anyone his business, but if I had a vote here, it would be for shutting down this thread. It appears that every person who has a position on this matter has already articulated it, and that no minds have been or will be changed, and that no further light will be shone upon the (putative) matter at hand.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I've removed quote a bit of extra commentary that crosses the line into political discussion.

We'd rather keep this open.

On a general note...I for one appreciate that you and the other tenders around here are generally not very heavy handed when moderating this site. There are lots of interesting aspects to this discussion, and hopefully it can continue within reason.

 

[alanfgag]

A short personal story. When I was in college and exploring my political sense of the world around me I bought a couple of classic Marxist texts to send to my dad who I thought would appreciate the awakening and knowing where my head was at. He wrote back (we wrote letters in those days) and told me that when he was injured in 1944 in Germany and airlifted to a hospital in London he had a handful of personal effects. When he was discharged months later all were returned to him except a copy of the Communist Manifesto.

To honor patriotism and love of country is to respect the complexity of America and the diversity of Americans.

Thanks to the moderators for allowing an interesting discussion to continue.

 

[scotrace]

We do not permit the discussion of politics. This is a long-standing rule of which most members are aware and which they respect.

Michaelshane, your posts were removed as quote/replies by others that were a problem. You're fine.

I've refunded one member's dues. I think that should take care of it.

 

[Frunobulax]

There are dues? Shoot, I must be in arrears!

 

[gtdean48]

...
To honor patriotism and love of country is to respect the complexity of America and the diversity of Americans.
...

Along with extreme gratitude for your father's service, damn well said there Alan!!!

 

[Frunobulax]

^^^What he said. Especially on this weekend

 

[AmateisGal]

We do not permit the discussion of politics. This is a long-standing rule of which most members are aware and which they respect.

Michaelshane, your posts were removed as quote/replies by others that were a problem. You're fine.

I've refunded one member's dues. I think that should take care of it.

Thanks, Scot, for all the work you do here. It is much appreciated. And the same for the other bartenders, as well!

 

[Feraud]

Along with extreme gratitude for your father's service, damn well said there Alan!!!

Agreed! :eusa_clap

 

[LizzieMaine]

A short personal story. When I was in college and exploring my political sense of the world around me I bought a couple of classic Marxist texts to send to my dad who I thought would appreciate the awakening and knowing where my head was at. He wrote back (we wrote letters in those days) and told me that when he was injured in 1944 in Germany and airlifted to a hospital in London he had a handful of personal effects. When he was discharged months later all were returned to him except a copy of the Communist Manifesto.

To honor patriotism and love of country is to respect the complexity of America and the diversity of Americans.

Indeed.

 

[vitanola]

Well, maybe she should have been sitting on a beach blanket instead.

Beach blanket? Bingo!

 

[Stearmen]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of this American flag?

 

[vitanola]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of this American flag?

Frankly it hurts my eyes. What is it?

 

[Zombie_61]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of this American flag?

The word "hideous" comes to mind.

 

[T Jones]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of this American flag?

Looks to be a battle flag of some sort(?) Judging from the 13 stars and the 13 stripes, probably a battle flag from the American Revolution(?) Just a guess.

 

[LuvMyMan]

Not at all. The point being made is that it's very easy and very common for that flag to be hijacked by all sorts of ideologies and used as a cudgel to beat those with whom they disagree, or to mask and justify all sorts of injustices. And not just in the past -- there are many things happening right now that dishonor the flag far more than a cheap advertisement. I've merely offered a few examples from both the past and the present. Waving a flag doesn't automatically make you a Klansman, but it also doesn't automatically make you an American. There wasn't a single American in that mob in Litchfield, no matter how many flags they carried.

I think all of us here ought to ask ourselves this question: had we been in that town on the night of June 16th 1940 -- or in any other of the more than three thousand towns in 45 of the 48 states where similar mob actions driven by the flag-salute issue occured during the summer of that year -- *what would we have done?*

You touch upon one of many points that is not tasteful about the use of the flag in that picture. The flag is for everyone, and not just for some groups statements to hide behind a "cause" that is clearly not American or representative of what our great Nation is all about. It should not be used as a "tool" to manipulate anyone's agenda, but should be used as in the common sense of what we all know it should be used for. Very simple to know, and we all do know.

To say what those Mobs did and think we have had some seriously wrongs done in the USA, the same as most any other Nation, but we are still here. I am sure everyone posting would agree we have a wonderful Nation, and along with the population, we are always going to have some idiots, like the KKK or other idiots that cannot think very clearly.

To answer Lizzie's question what would I have done regarding the Mob situation? If I knew the reason behind the Mob doing what they did, I guess I would have had to "gear up" and go out to confront the Mob and would have used my very last shot, defending those that were innocent....I may have died and maybe would have, but those individuals had rights of freedom and those in the Mob had no right to destroy the other's freedom. I guess you can say, that is MY point. That is OUR Flag. Not to be messed with by an "Ad" like the one showcased here, and certainly not to be used in connection of adverse activities such as a Mob or the KKK. Truly no one "group" can lay claim to using a Flag for furthering a personal agenda. That Flag represents so much more then any one person or their agenda. We are a Nation of Freedom. What that Mob did was to deny the very source of what that Flag represents. The story of anyone going after someone that had a difference to saluting a Flag is so sad. I am sure some people have views that may not fall into the same views as others, but no matter what this is OUR Country (for those is us that are Americans) and we should all welcome being able to share what we have and support what is good, and not follow what is bad. We are all adults and know the difference between right and wrong.

I can only say I have such a great LOVE for the USA and for my fellow "mankind". Most if not all "Loungers" are very nice wonderful people, which to me is a added attraction for being "here".

 

[Feraud]

Frankly it hurts my eyes. What is it?

That looks like something Tommy Hilfiger or Ralph Lauren might slap on their clothing.

 

[T Jones]

Not at all. The point being made is that it's very easy and very common for that flag to be hijacked by all sorts of ideologies and used as a cudgel to beat those with whom they disagree, or to mask and justify all sorts of injustices. And not just in the past -- there are many things happening right now that dishonor the flag far more than a cheap advertisement. I've merely offered a few examples from both the past and the present. Waving a flag doesn't automatically make you a Klansman, but it also doesn't automatically make you an American. There wasn't a single American in that mob in Litchfield, no matter how many flags they carried.

I think all of us here ought to ask ourselves this question: had we been in that town on the night of June 16th 1940 -- or in any other of the more than three thousand towns in 45 of the 48 states where similar mob actions driven by the flag-salute issue occured during the summer of that year -- *what would we have done?*

Waving a flag doesn't automatically make you a Klansman, but it also doesn't automatically make you an American.

Just to see where you actually stood on the matter, I still had to call you out on it. What I read into it, when you posted those two pictures, and especially since I'm a conservative, was that you were making a stereotype mischaracterization of conservative ideology and political views. I debate this all the time with fringers who lean far to the other direction on another forum. As a counter to those two pictures I could have also offered up pictures of fanatical protestors who burn the American Flag and who deficate on it. So, yes. You're right. I agree. The Flag can be misused by all sorts to express many types of ideologies.