**NEWS EXTRA**Good Wear flying jackets take vintage authenticity to new heights!!

[BellyTank]

It's the same old story... Eastman and Aero have been telling their 'truth' for years about accuracy.
Lost Worlds, yeh. Problem is, people tend to believe those who claim to be an authority, without checking the facts for themselves.
Then the Flight Jacket interest forums came along...
And John Chapman.

Now we can see.

B
T

 

[Alan Eardley]

I was recently 'taken to task' by a Lounger for pointing out the wild and inaccurate claims that are made on a particular clothing website. My view is that vendors have a primary responsibility for describing their products accurately (if they claim an item an accurate replica, it should be just that) and a secondary responsibility for 'stories' that they use to sell their products. The problem is that people understandably regard the vendors as authorities, believe these stories as fact and accept the inaccuracies of style and fit without question.

Look at this:
http://jlpowellusa.com/product/34_51-Outerwear/319-J-L-Powell-RAF-Flight-Jacket.html

Almost nothing in this advertisement is true - the claims of 'obsessive authenticity' are provably wrong, even the name of the company (Alvin Parachute?) is wrong, the jacket is nothing like a real Irvin Jacket in terms of material (white shearling?) and features (slash pockets?) and the story about USAAF and RAF bomber crews sharing jackets is....well, BS. A moment's thought would show that arrangement to be completely unworkable, but some people apparently believe it.

After my posting refered to above, a Lounger sent me a PM saying that it was unfair of me to criticise such descriptions, as some people want to believe them - to feel they are 'buying into a legend' - and I was spoiling it. A bit like fairy stories and Father Christmas, I suppose. Fair enough, but what about the people who mistakenly believe they are buying an authentic reproduction with a historical context and later find out that it was all BS? To borrow a phrase, they have 'been shafted'.

In the UK, the above advertisement could be challenged through the Advertising Standards Authority and would possibly be illegal. Just my opinion.

Alan

It's the same old story... Eastman and Aero have been telling their 'truth' for years about accuracy.
Lost Worlds, yeh. Problem is, people tend to believe those who claim to be an authority, without checking the facts for themselves.
Then the Flight Jacket interest forums came along...
And John Chapman.

Now we can see.

B
T

 

[Smithy]

Look at this:
http://jlpowellusa.com/product/34_51-Outerwear/319-J-L-Powell-RAF-Flight-Jacket.html

Almost nothing in this advertisement is true - the claims of 'obsessive authenticity' are provably wrong, even the name of the company (Alvin Parachute?) is wrong, the jacket is nothing like a real Irvin Jacket in terms of material (white shearling?) and features (slash pockets?) and the story about USAAF and RAF bomber crews sharing jackets is....well, BS. A moment's thought would show that arrangement to be completely unworkable, but some people apparently believe it.

Alan, thank you so much for posting that, it had me roaring with laughter! Possibly one of the biggest, steaming piles of you know what I've seen in awhile.

Loved the bit about RAF bomber crews handing over their jackets to US bomber crews in the morning, haha!!

And people should tell things as they are and well done to you for doing so here at the Lounge Alan.

 

[Feraud]

After my posting refered to above, a Lounger sent me a PM saying that it was unfair of me to criticise such descriptions, as some people want to believe them - to feel they are 'buying into a legend' - and I was spoiling it.

I cannot imagine anyone would want to buy a fairy tale instead of the most accurate representation of a particular garment. It is our constructive detail and historical based criticisms and the individual drive for excellence that push the boundaries of quality and authenticity. This has produced excellent looking jackets.
The Goodwear is one such example.

 

[aswatland]

Alan, This extraordinary advert had me laughing and yet caused considerable annoyance. As you say virtually nothing in it is true. The jacket is a basic civi shearling worth $300 max not the inflated sums charged.

Perhaps one day we will see the first truly accurate Irvin repro appearing, with the correct zips. A challenge for John Chapman perhaps!

 

[fishmeok]

Check out the sweater page:
http://jlpowellusa.com/product/22-Sweaters/322-J-L-Powell-RAF-Sweater.html

"Our RAF turtleneck is completely faithful to those worn by British submarine officers during WWII"lol

I didn't know the RAF was part of the RN- I also didn't know that B-17 and Lancaster crews shared the same airfields- what did they hot bunk too?
That kind of thing just ticks me off.

Hey Andrew- how about swapping Irvins with me when you land...lol
Cheers
Mark

 

[Alan Eardley]

Andrew,

Some years ago I discussed the issue of a truly accurate Irvin with Stephen Silburn of Sefton Clothing after he restored an Irvin for me. For anyone who doesn't know, Stephen's work on RAF gear is head and shoulders above anything produced anywhere else - he's the man! His reproduction helmets and masks are just amazing. He has access to NOS trimmings and fittings, etc. I suggested to him that, if he could do a restoration to such high quality, he could make a reproduction jacket from scratch and it would be the best. The reason that he desn't (IIRC) was the price he would have to charge to cover the labour involved.
A pity, but that's business. There is a lot more work in an Irvin than in an A-2.

Alan

Alan, This extraordinary advert had me laughing and yet caused considerable annoyance. As you say virtually nothing in it is true. The jacket is a basic civi shearling worth $300 max not the inflated sums charged.

Perhaps one day we will see the first truly accurate Irvin repro appearing, with the correct zips. A challenge for John Chapman perhaps!

 

[scotrace]

I get the Powell catalog at home now. Nice photos, fun copy, but it's full of such nonsense.

 

[Mike K.]

His reproduction helmets and masks are just amazing. He has access to NOS trimmings and fittings, etc.

Alan, do you have any website/contact information for Sefton Clothing. I'd really love to obtain a repro RAF Type C helmet if one is available.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Mike,

Steve doesn't have a website. I approve. His email is (or used to be) seftonclothingco@aol.com

I'm not sure he does a Type C helmet at the moment, but here are some thumbnails of a Type B he did some time ago.

He also does excellent masks and Mae Wests.

What size helmet do you take, by the way? Type C helmets aren't that uncommon in the UK.

Alan

Alan, do you have any website/contact information for Sefton Clothing. I'd really love to obtain a repro RAF Type C helmet if one is available.

 

[Windsock]

Mike,

Steve doesn't have a website. I approve. His email is (or used to be) seftonclothingco@aol.com

I'm not sure he does a Type C helmet at the moment, but here are some thumbnails of a Type B he did some time ago.



He also does excellent masks and Mae Wests.

Alan

He's also a real gentleman, extremely helpful and i've found quite generous with advice on the times i've worked with him. He has a vast knowledge of RAF kit and as Alan says, tons of spares and bits. He's been reproducing Type E masks lately using some original bits. He does sell on that site and his user name is "Izavailable". In the past he had produced very good A-2 repros, but I imagine if he could do an Irvin it would be excellent.

 

[Mike K.]

What size helmet do you take, by the way? Type C helmets aren't that uncommon in the UK.

Thanks Alan. I usually wear a 7 3/8 hat size, which if I recall correctly is either a size 3 or 4 in the old flight helmets. I keep my eye open on eBay for a good one to go along with the U.S. helmets I own. If you see any, please let me know.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Feraud,

Incredible as it seems, having thought about this for a while, I can believe it. This is about epistemology (the nature of belief) and ontology (the nature of understanding). Some people (the 'pragmatists', let us call them) live in a world where facts, truth and accuracy are all-important (particularly where spending large amounts of money is concerned), other people (let us call them the 'romantics' ) enjoy the stories, myths and legends surrounding objects and don't demand truth or accuracy in the same way.

In fact, I would go so far as saying that the 'truth' (whatever that is) can actually spoil the romantics' enjoyment of what they are purchasing. I think we only have to look at the power of mythology (i.e. romance) compared to science (i.e. pragmatism) in any culture to see this works. 'Romantic' customers believe what they want to believe and vendors, not unreasonably, are more than ready to profit by feeding this mythology.

So, any long khaki shorts are always 'Ghurka shorts' (they are even being described as such in catwalk collections this season) and any white woollen pullover is an 'RAF (or Submariners') sweater'. Any wild claim by a vendor is accepted (although perhaps not really believed) as a part of the myth. I suspect that no amount of factual historical referencing will stop the 'romantics' from behaving in this way - they probably enjoy the delusion and will always gladly buy bad, overpriced copies with misleading but romantic stories behind them...

In the meantime, the pragmatists are constructively pointing out inaccuracies, researching real historical items and helping the industry to improve its standard of reproductions - as you say, like the recent Goodwear offerings.

I am beginning to see that there is room for both types in the world. Just my opinion.

Alan

I cannot imagine anyone would want to buy a fairy tale instead of the most accurate representation of a particular garment. It is our constructive detail and historical based criticisms and the individual drive for excellence that push the boundaries of quality and authenticity. This has produced excellent looking jackets.
The Goodwear is one such example.

 

[John Lever]

As an antiques restorer I often see reproduction pieces, usually from China ,that are indistinguishable from genuine pieces. I think it is possible to make a jacket and age it so as to be able to fool virtually anyone.
If a man in a shed can forge a fake statuette that fooled the British Museum to the tune of millions of pounds, then I don't think a simple jacket is much of a challenge.
Take one of John's jackets, paint it with dog sh*t, bury it in the ground for 2 months and let it dry in the sun, give it a brush off and a coat of Pecards and hey presto !

 

[Mike K.]

Here I go again!!

Well, I am now underway working with John on my next flight jacket purchase. I was about to purchase another Aero, but the authenticity of John's jackets really sold me. We are working out the details on the appropriate size and I have a batch of leather & knit samples arriving shortly in the mail. At this time, I am considering both his Dubow and Aero reproductions (leaning towards the Aero). I'll let y'all know when the order is placed, and of course lots of photos will be posted after it arrives (hopefully just in time for that B-17G flight I'm planning)!

 

[Fletch]

If a man in a shed can forge a fake statuette that fooled the British Museum to the tune of millions of pounds, then I don't think a simple jacket is much of a challenge.

A man in a shed can do anything, if you give him enough free time and beverage of choice.

Take one of John's jackets, paint it with dog sh*t, bury it in the ground for 2 months and let it dry in the sun, give it a brush off and a coat of Pecards and hey presto !

If dog sh*t is unavailable, you could substitute Marmite.

 

[fedoralover]

Well, I am now underway working with John on my next flight jacket purchase. I was about to purchase another Aero, but the authenticity of John's jackets really sold me. We are working out the details on the appropriate size and I have a batch of leather & knit samples arriving shortly in the mail. At this time, I am considering both his Dubow and Aero reproductions (leaning towards the Aero). I'll let y'all know when the order is placed, and of course lots of photos will be posted after it arrives (hopefully just in time for that B-17G flight I'm planning)!

Mike, I look forward to seeing it. We should be getting ours fairly close together since I just ordered mine a short time ago. I went with the Dubow in the English Pub Coffee. I've never been a fan of cowhide until I saw the stuff John has been able to get.

fedoralover

 

[John Lever]

As an antiques restorer I often see reproduction pieces, usually from China ,that are indistinguishable from genuine pieces. I think it is possible to make a jacket and age it so as to be able to fool virtually anyone.
If a man in a shed can forge a fake statuette that fooled the British Museum to the tune of millions of pounds, then I don't think a simple jacket is much of a challenge.
Take one of John's jackets, paint it with dog sh*t, bury it in the ground for 2 months and let it dry in the sun, give it a brush off and a coat of Pecards and hey presto !

Just to add that ' not much of a challenge ' refers to the faking of a jacket. Not the manufacture of Goodwear jackets.

 

[fedoralover]

Goodwear A-2 Pocket comparisons

Here's some comparison shots of the pockets of the different contracts that John makes. They show that he doesn't make one generic pocket style and put it on all his jackets.

Bronco

Unitedsheeplined

Dubow

Doniger

fedoralover

 

[fedoralover]

More pockets

Here's the other 4. I wish I could afford to get all 8.

Aero 21996

Aero 16160

Roughwear 18091

No Name Contract

fedoralover