New Service, New Century, and M1911 pistols

[Naphtali]

There is an article in the 1990 edition of Gun Digest by John Malloy, titled "Colt's 1909 Military Revolver." There is one throw-away paragraph that has me wondering. On page 126, paragraph one reads:

"Reliability was another quality associated with the 1909. Most students of firearms history know that the semi-automatic pistol that was to become the 1911 Colt defeated its nearest rival in a final endurance test. During the test, the Colt automatic fired 6000 rounds without a malfunction, a performance for which it is deservedly famous. Less well known, however, is the fact that a 1909 revolver was used as a control standard during the tests, and it also turned in a perfect score." (Emphasis added.)

There is no mention of S&W's New Century Hand Ejector revolver in any form. Apparently, the NC HE was either not tested during acceptance tests for the 1909 revolver or it was tested and didn't measure up. What's the real scoop on the status/fate of S&W's big frame New Service competitor in this era?

 

[up196]

US Service Revolvers

I believe the Colt's Model of 1909 was used as the control because at the time, it was the newest service revolver issued to the U.S. Army, Navy and Marines.

The 1909 was a .45 caliber handgun while the S&W New Century or Triple Lock at the time was produced mainly in .44 caliber, which was not the U.S. Military's accepted caliber, hence no U.S. Military versions of the big Smith.

The first military use of the Triple Lock, and it's first major production run in a caliber larger than .44, was in 1914, with the British order for 5,000 in .455 caliber.

 

[Harp]

There is an article in the 1990 edition of Gun Digest by John Malloy, titled "Colt's 1909 Military Revolver." There is one throw-away paragraph that has me wondering. On page 126, paragraph one reads:

"Reliability was another quality associated with the 1909. Most students of firearms history know that the semi-automatic pistol that was to become the 1911 Colt defeated its nearest rival in a final endurance test. During the test, the Colt automatic fired 6000 rounds without a malfunction, a performance for which it is deservedly famous. Less well known, however, is the fact that a 1909 revolver was used as a control standard during the tests, and it also turned in a perfect score." (Emphasis added.)

I traded back my standard-issue 1911A1 after a range malfunction
for the Colt .357 Python revolver--had right of choice in weaponry--
it was a difficult yet necessary divorce. But the Python was a gem that
could be fully trusted. Never fired a Colt 09 revolver, though not surprised
to read that it was used as control standard for the 1911 test.

 

[Naphtali]

I believe the Colt's Model of 1909 was used as the control because at the time, it was the newest service revolver issued to the U.S. Army, Navy and Marines.

The 1909 was a .45 caliber handgun while the S&W New Century or Triple Lock at the time was produced mainly in .44 caliber, which was not the U.S. Military's accepted caliber, hence no U.S. Military versions of the big Smith.

The first military use of the Triple Lock, and it's first major production run in a caliber larger than .44, was in 1914, with the British order for 5,000 in .455 caliber.

From changes appearing on the 1909 that did not appear on previous New Service revolvers, there was an evaluation before adoption; otherwise, no changes from modeification of 1905. I'm unfamiliar with standard arms of the US Army that were not acquired from competition until World War II's M1 carbine. I think anything adopted without trials would have been substitute standard. And the 1909 was not substitute standard. It was just acknowledged to be a short term standard. Was the mechanical simplicity of New Service's Schmidt-Galland lock superior to the more sophisticated New Century's lock in harsh (military) service?

 

[Cigarband]

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[1] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the last decades of the 19th century; the slower, heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen. The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the Army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It also prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.

Following the 1904 Thompson-LaGarde pistol round effectiveness tests, Colonel John T. Thompson stated that the new pistol "should not be of less than .45 caliber" and would preferably be semi-automatic in operation. This led to the 1906 trials of pistols from six firearms manufacturing companies (namely, Colt, Bergmann, Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM), Savage Arms Company, Knoble, Webley, and White-Merril).

Of the six designs submitted, three were eliminated early on, leaving only the Savage, Colt, and DWM designs chambered in the new .45ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge. These three still had issues that needed correction, but only Colt and Savage resubmitted their designs. There is some debate over the reasons for DWM's withdrawal—some say they felt there was bias and that the DWM design was being used primarily as a "whipping boy" for the Savage and Colt pistols,[2] though this does not fit well with the earlier 1900 purchase of the DWM design over the Colt and Steyr entries. In any case, a series of field tests from 1907 to 1911 were held to decide between the Savage and Colt designs. Both designs were improved between each testing over their initial entries, leading up to the final test before adoption.

Among the areas of success for the Colt was a 6,000 round test at the end of 1910 attended by its designer, John Browning. The Colt gun passed with flying colors, having no malfunctions, while the Savage designs had 37.
-Handguns Magazine

 

[Naphtali]

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard .38 Long Colt revolver was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[1]. . .

To prepare a Juramentado (spelling??) for martyrdom, probably the final thing done in preparation was a doozy. His testicles were wrapped with wire. OUCH! The intent was to render him immune to [additional] pain from battle wounds. Perhaps unintended consequences might have been to make him exceptionally disagreeable to be around and unwilling to listen to reason?