New Scammer alert: Jerseyfresh1 / Michael Triolo

[jeffrx]

…But the buyer should be obligated to return the item, no? Isn’t that understood?

 

[J Leather Investigater]

…But the buyer should be obligated to return the item, no? Isn’t that understood?

Maybe not. What if he sent some old brown wal mart boots bck

 

[Jasonissm]

If you read closely what the seller said. The buyer told PayPal " He (seller) didn't Send what was advertised"! 9.5 New in box boots that fit 10 brannock. Size is not the main claim. PayPal will side with buyer because he made a claim he didn't get what was advertised for sell. It sucks but PayPal honors their buyer protection. If selling on lounge accept f&f.

Yeah, but you need to justify why it is not as described. You can't just choose the reason without objective proof or else Paypal will side with the seller. "Item not as described" is the complaint category for stuff such as items sent in wrong size, etc. you can't just say it's not as described and nothing else, they won't side with the buyer in that instance since they need proof.

You first select complain category from dropdown box, includes stuff like "item not as described", "item not received", etc. then there is also mandatory text box field to explain and also you have to upload photos as evidence. So in this instance, I believe the buyer put "significantly not as described" with the shoe not fitting in the text field and photo of the boot not fitting as evidence.

The evidence the buyer gave was a photo of a foot not fitting in the boot, that's clearly size error and should not be honored by Paypal.

Paypal is notoriously buyer-sided, but they need evidence to support the chargeback claim at the minimum.

 

[Claybertrand]

I don't get how this guy bought the boots from Jail........Does New Jersey just allow violent criminals to surf the web all day??? What ever happened to Chain Gangs???? Also, I don't think they let you wear your own clothes in jail. In movies I have seen they always seem to have really crummy shoes.

 

[BassandB3]

Just to be clear, I didn't submit the photo of a foot not fitting, the buyer did. The item I sold is literally BNIB and marked 9.5 on the box and on the sole of the boot. He literally said he was purchasing "9.5 boots" in his Paypal purchase.

 

[ton312]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the buyer does get refunded and the seller also keeps the proceeds from the sale. In cases like these (obviously the buyer is a scoundrel) PayPal will often times eat the loss. PayPal does not have the time to deal in small he said /he said cases and when there is no real way to settle amicably, they put a napkin ‘round their neck and eat it.

 

[J Leather Investigater]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the buyer does get refunded and the seller also keeps the proceeds from the sale. In cases like these (obviously the buyer is a scoundrel) PayPal will often times eat the loss. PayPal does not have the time to deal in small he said /he said cases and when there is no real way to settle amicably, they put a napkin ‘round their neck and eat it.

I could see that. Im rooting for the seller all day.
I just tried to drive home the fact that f&f should be the method on lounge because of this. And that regular pay pal has buyer protection. So f&f is seller protection. I would accept a reg. PayPal payment from you an several other long time members but ironically the ones I would accept this from are the ones that immediately send f&f.

 

[Edward]

What is interesting is that there is no TFL member jerseyfresh1. Maybe mods can shed some light on this as this can be a part of his scam.

JerseyFresh was banned from TFL after being aggressively abusive towards other members about two posts in; the software by default setting automatically deletes all posts made by the user. He'd have had maybe three visible posts at that time - this would explain the disappearance of posts and I think the PMs also.

Not exactly, no. The buyer who feels he/she was wronged must prove to the people at PayPal that the item(s) they received does not match the listing in a significant way. For example, if these boots were advertised as being "Size 9" but were actually size 11, submitting proof of that would usually be enough for PayPal to step in and mediate some sort of "settlement".

That's been my experience. Buyer needs to provide evidence. If they can show it wasn't as advertised, they'll be refunded, though the requirements on them vary. A few months ago I got hit by a scammer claiming to sell Grail Diaries that were prop quality, but using stolen photos and what they sent out was one of those ten-dollar, cheap paperback ones they were obviously buying in bulk and selling for several times that. I sent Paypal links to the real site, screengrabs - including of a FB post by the person to whom the photos belonged explaining they'd been hit by this scammer - and Paypal refunded my entire spend, including shipping - with no requirement to return. Crucially, PP will give the seller the chance to respond (they didn't in my case - clearly knew they'd been caught out). I would send them screengrabs of your original sales ad showing the sizing and all information clearly set out, point out that the seller is unhappy about the fit, and suggest that you would be happy to refund if the boots are returned. That's what should be done, of course, but....

FWIW, I wouldn't mention that you tried to get them to use F&F first; Paypal would likely hold that against you.

 

[Zombie_61]

…But the buyer should be obligated to return the item, no? Isn’t that understood?

Maybe, maybe not. If the buyer made the mistake, wanted to return the item(s), and the seller agrees, yes. If the seller made the mistake, intentionally or otherwise, and is willing to pay the return fees, yes. But if the seller made the mistake and expects the buyer to pay extra to return the item, no.

 

[Jasonissm]

Maybe, maybe not. If the buyer made the mistake, wanted to return the item(s), and the seller agrees, yes. If the seller made the mistake, intentionally or otherwise, and is willing to pay the return fees, yes. But if the seller made the mistake and expects the buyer to pay extra to return the item, no.

For what it's worth, not always the case. I had a Paypal dispute where I needed to return the item on my own dime to receive the refund.

 

[morrison2951]

For what it's worth, not always the case. I had a Paypal dispute where I needed to return the item on my own dime to receive the refund.

Yep. Same here.

 

[Zombie_61]

For what it's worth, not always the case. I had a Paypal dispute where I needed to return the item on my own dime to receive the refund.

Yep. Same here.

I've never had that happen, but I can't recall ever making too many online purchases where the shipping costs wouldn't wipe out most of the refund.

 

[BassandB3]

Case resolved in my favor. Thanks for handling this right, PayPal. And thanks everybody for the support!

 

[Will Zach]

Hope the scammer gets banned from PayPal.

 

[P2D]

Great to read this worked out! Thanks for keeping us in the loop

 

[Woodtroll]

Glad it worked out in your favor!

For those pushing the use of Paypal F&F because it "protects the seller", what do you expect will happen when the same scammer (or his brother) posts something for sale here on the Lounge and demands Paypal F&F, and upon receipt of funds all the buyer receives is a note that says, "Thanks, sucker!" ?

F&F is not intended to pay for purchases, and offers absolutely no protection for the buyer. No different than Venmo, Zelle, and some other new payment methods. Discussion boards are full of stories of woe from folks who bought things off of scam websites or from "classifieds", paid with one of these methods, and lost every penny. If you're demanding to sell only to "Family and Friends", then you're limiting your business only to true family and friends, or folks with poor business sense.

To be sure, there are many folks on here that I trust completely and would pay with F&F, even though we've never met. But that certainly doesn't apply to everyone, even here.

 

[P2D]

Glad it worked out in your favor!

For those pushing the use of Paypal F&F because it "protects the seller", what do you expect will happen when the same scammer (or his brother) posts something for sale here on the Lounge and demands Paypal F&F, and upon receipt of funds all the buyer receives is a note that says, "Thanks, sucker!" ?

F&F is not intended to pay for purchases, and offers absolutely no protection for the buyer. No different than Venmo, Zelle, and some other new payment methods. Discussion boards are full of stories of woe from folks who bought things off of scam websites or from "classifieds", paid with one of these methods, and lost every penny. If you're demanding to sell only to "Family and Friends", then you're limiting your business only to true family and friends, or folks with poor business sense.

To be sure, there are many folks on here that I trust completely and would pay with F&F, even though we've never met. But that certainly doesn't apply to everyone, even here.

You make a great point here. It’s really a delicate balance. In the end trust plays a big part as does measured risk taking. One thing I like about TFL and IG is that people become known and build up track records, but it’s hard for individuals to make a start. Unless you’re on here or have an IG presence I would only use F&F when selling, G&S when buying

 

[BassandB3]

Wow. Sad update to this saga. Just was informed by PayPal that the buyer has filed a complaint with their financial institution. I was asked to provide shipping info to Paypal (doesn't make sense b/c the buyer already acknowledged receiving the boots) and now my account is on hold and in the red. Painful.

 

[Observe]

Wow. Sad update to this saga. Just was informed by PayPal that the buyer has filed a complaint with their financial institution. I was asked to provide shipping info to Paypal (doesn't make sense b/c the buyer already acknowledged receiving the boots) and now my account is on hold and in the red. Painful.

Annoying. I hope it gets sorted in your favor.

 

[Fireflame]

Wow. Sad update to this saga. Just was informed by PayPal that the buyer has filed a complaint with their financial institution. I was asked to provide shipping info to Paypal (doesn't make sense b/c the buyer already acknowledged receiving the boots) and now my account is on hold and in the red. Painful.

Yikes! Sorry to hear that.
I had this happen to me a while back. The proof of shipping was for the financial institution. Once I provided PayPal with what they needed, they were able to settle the dispute with the financial institution in my favor. I hope this is the same turnout for you.