New "How to make a bow" TUTORIAL by FORTINO37

[The Fedorable]

Wait, is that how you did it or how it's normally done? That looks like cheating! Haha.

A lovely hat nontheless.

 

[TheDane]

John: Always iron the ribbon into an arch - just like the arch of a sweatband. The reason is the same: To get the ribbon to taper, so you are sure, it will tighten around the crown in the top. It's also mentioned in this post. Scroll down to where Jim's wife irons the ribbon.

 

[TheDane]

Wait, is that how you did it or how it's normally done? That looks like cheating! Haha.

Not at all. There are different ways of doing a ribbon/bow. This a very common one

 

[John Galt]

John: Always iron the ribbon into an arch - just like the arch of a sweatband. The reason is the same: To get the ribbon to taper, so you are sure, it will tighten around the crown in the top. It's also mentioned in this post. Scroll down to where Jim's wife irons the ribbon.

That is very good advice, but you'd already pointed it out above, so I didn't repeat it ;-)

Because you mentioned it, I will admit that I've never done it before because the hats I have rebuilt up to now have been blocked very straight sided, and I'd gotten away without doing so. This had had some decent crown taper though, and would have benefited greatly from that step. It came out alright in the end, but it took significantly more effort to get the ribbon tight against the crown. I will always do as you have suggested from this point forward.

I also neglected to mention the tiny stitches along the bottom of the ribbon (not the top!) to keep it from creeping up, but frankly, I rarely bother with that on my own hats.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

Wait, is that how you did it or how it's normally done? That looks like cheating! Haha.

A lovely hat nontheless.

Thanks. This methodology was actually gleaned from deconstructing lots of hats & thinking about what I had seen. Unfortunately, the "Old Book" doesn't cover trimmings.

TD is right, there are other methods, but this seems pretty universal. From time to time I see one that's been made from one piece of ribbon (I had a half-bow Fletchet like that once), but this method seems much more common, at least on the American made hats I've taken apart.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[Greyryder]

The bow on my Biltmore seems to be one of the unusual ones. It's just a short length of ribbon, with the ends folded over. The back layer of the double bow is actually the end of the main ribbon that wraps around the hat.

I intend to replace the ribbon, because I'm not a fan of gray ribbons on gray hats. I'm currently planning to duplicate the triple bow I've seen on a much more expensive Biltmore fedora. This thread has been a wealth of information, for me.

 

[TheDane]

The bow on my Biltmore seems to be one of the unusual ones.

As said, there are a lot of different methods. There is not a "standard" or "usual" method. The folded bow-ends is just one of the very wide spread ways to deal with details

Another detail that was very widely used on US-hats is a narrow (appr. 1/4") strip of cardboard-stiffener or -stay, sewn into the ends of the bow with a sewing machine. These stays make the ends of the bow look nice and sharp. It prevents the "hanging" or "arching" of the ends you sometimes see between the stitches in the "corners" of the bow.

When forming and pressing the strip for the knot, it can be hard to keep the creases in place, untill they are decently pressed/fixed. It's a little easier if you pin the ribbon-piece temporarily to the ironing board. Then you can gently "dab" the creases with the point of the iron - between the pins. When spot-pressed/-fixed this way, you can remove the pins and the use the whole sole of the iron and give it the final "stamp" with the iron. Especially with advanced knot-types this a good way to keep things under control.

Many modern ironing boards are made of a piece of extruded metal-plate, coated with fabric. That's very efficient for letting steam and moisture escape - but it's not an exceptional straight and even surface to do prescission work on. For the knot-strip you can use a cork-block for sanding. For most knots it'll be just long enough. Cover the block with a few layers of fabric (duct-tape or pin the fabric to the sides, but keep tape away from the top and the heat). Then you have a straight and plane surface to pin the ribbon-strip down to - and to "dap" and press it on.

When the creases are done, fold the knot-piece over a strip of cardboard and press on the back. That way the upper and lower edges of the knot will end up nice and parallel. The height of the knot should be greater, than you think - due to the thickness of the bow. Made in "the right" size, it will turn out too low, when wrapped around the bow. It has to be quite a bit higher than one thinks to make the finished look pleasing. Trial and error will show

Never use too high temperature or too much body-weight on the iron ... be gentle. Keep an eye on the edges of the ribbon. The 3D'ish pattern along the edges (the edge-weaving) should stay sharp and well defined. If it begins to show up flat and/or shining, you've used too much heat and/or pressure.

 

[John Galt]

Great information TD! You are a valuable member of this forum and a wealth of knowledge.

Please accept my thanks to you and all the other hatters, hobbyists, professors ;-), and affectionados in this forum for sharing what you know about hats and hatting.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[TheDane]

Please accept my thanks to you and all the other hatters, hobbyists, professors ;-), and affectionados in this forum for sharing what you know about hats and hatting.

Thanks for the kind words, but you top that list

My addressing you in the latest post on the curve-pressed ribbon was probably a bit retoric. I'm sure, that you understand, but it's the thing that makes many DIY ribbons flare in the top. To be sure, it's understandable, I have made a small illustration of what I do:



I try to drag one end toward me, while I move the iron a little sideways in the direction of the dragged ribbon end. Again, be gentle and do it a little at a time. Run it over several times and do change direction. It will eventually curve, but it takes a little time and effort. When the curve is right, leave the ribbon alone some minutes to cool off.

The reason to curve the ribbon is to force the two edges into different lengths. If you place the longer outer edge along the brim, the inner edge will be shorter and tug tightly around the crown. Even if a ribbon seems tight, in damp weather it'll loosen up a bit and sometimes flare at the top. I always curve my ribbon to be sure, but as I stated earlier, there are so many approaches ... they all end up in a hat

 

[T Jones]

I didn't get photos of every step, but here's a conversion from a strat/OR to a fedora ribbon & bow.

I tacked the bottoms first as previously noted, then stretched the top to take up the slack on the taper, making sure to put a little crease in the middle so the ribbon "dives" into the bow. I used a mismatching thread, but will switch it out when I have the right stuff. The bow is straight out of the tutorial.

Oh, to prevent having to tweak the gap, it's best to make the bow first & fit the gap to it. Also, tacking and tying with individual stitches gives you the ability to tweak without starting all over.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

Nicely done John G.! I like that ! The brown ribbon goes excellent with that OR! Looks like you almost have a "flying v" started on the bow. Nice tutorial too. That helps a lot.

 

[T Jones]

Thanks for the kind words, but you top that list

My addressing you in the latest post on the curve-pressed ribbon was probably a bit retoric. I'm sure, that you understand, but it's the thing that makes many DIY ribbons flare in the top. To be sure, it's understandable, I have made a small illustration of what I do:

View attachment 8221

I try to drag one end toward me, while I move the iron a little sideways in the direction of the dragged ribbon end. Again, be gentle and do it a little at a time. Run it over several times and do change direction. It will eventually curve, but it takes a little time and effort. When the curve is right, leave the ribbon alone some minutes to cool off.

The reason to curve the ribbon is to force the two edges into different lengths. If you place the longer outer edge along the brim, the inner edge will be shorter and tug tightly around the crown. Even if a ribbon seems tight, in damp weather it'll loosen up a bit and sometimes flare at the top. I always curve my ribbon to be sure, but as I stated earlier, there are so many approaches ... they all end up in a hat

I like that. It really explains a lot! Dane, John G., thanks for the help guys. I for one really appreciate these tutorials. Here's another type bow that I've been interested in learning, the so-called "Shark Gill" bow as seen in the movie, "Lawless". What do you think. How would you make this type of bow?...

 

[John Galt]

TJ, I'm guessing here, and want to hear a more knowledgeable response, but I have seen these before, and it looks to me like its' made of consecutive folds..


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

Here's another method for bow-making, made with one piece of ribbon (plus knot). It's from an old JC Penney's boater.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

Here's what I did. About 1/4 inch folds, on the leading edge. I folded each back over a business card to get the tail part of each fold uniform. The last fold (the 7th gill) will be on the hatband, so I folded the hatband over itself to create a beginning and end of that gill. I'm not done, because I need to attach the sweat before attaching the bow, but I think you'll see how this will work.

The 7th gill is actually a mock up. I had thought about doing this with one piece, but had to abort because it took a lot of ribbon & I had not cut a long enough piece. I made this to see how it would look when I attach it.

This last photo is of the bow laid on the hat. Note the ring from upsizing this grey 6 7/8 Stetson Nutria Quality cowboy hat to a 7 1/8 wide brimmed fedora. This discoloration will be hidden behind the bow. If I'd downsized the hat, it would be on the brim and ruin the hat.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[DOGMAN]

John,I've been thinking about doing a shark gill for one of my conversions for awhile now.Thanks for showing how you do it.This will help me make one.(usually it's trail and error till I get it right)Thanks again.

 

[T Jones]

Here's what I did. About 1/4 inch folds, on the leading edge. I folded each back over a business card to get the tail part of each fold uniform. The last fold (the 7th gill) will be on the hatband, so I folded the hatband over itself to create a beginning and end of that gill. I'm not done, because I need to attach the sweat before attaching the bow, but I think you'll see how this will work.

The 7th gill is actually a mock up. I had thought about doing this with one piece, but had to abort because it took a lot of ribbon & I had not cut a long enough piece. I made this to see how it would look when I attach it.

This last photo is of the bow laid on the hat. Note the ring from upsizing this grey 6 7/8 Stetson Nutria Quality cowboy hat to a 7 1/8 wide brimmed fedora. This discoloration will be hidden behind the bow. If I'd downsized the hat, it would be on the brim and ruin the hat.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

So just a matter of folding and overlapping and a uniform consistency with the reveal of each overlap. Hope that makes sense. Most of all, a long enough ribbon! Thanks John. Your tutorials and Dane's are very well explained, easy to understand...and the pics are a big help. Thanks to the both of you.

 

[TheDane]

I like gills on the hats of other people, but I haven't yet been ready to wear one myself. Therefore I haven't made any gill-bows - and if were to make one, I would have to have one (or a few) gilled hats to get ideas from. John's approach seems a very good way to get around the job. A very important point is the cardboard template. Whenever it's possible, make templates. They make most things a lot easier and precise.

 

[TheDane]

I have another small tip, that at first glance can seem inferiour - but it can in my mind make or break a ribbon job. If we see the pattern of the ribbon as ribs and grooves, it could be expressed like:

Never let a visible stitch cross a rib. Always let a stitch stay in a groove.

The stitches somehow "hide" better, if they don't span any ribs/ridges. They kind of "disappear" in the pattern, if they are kept in the grooves of the grosgrain pattern. Try it ... the difference in result is quite stunning.

 

[TheDane]

A last tip: In the begining you can use one thread and two needles - one in each end. Some would call it cheating, but it may very well be a big help ... and after all, we're not hatters

When you hammer a nail into a plank, you don't focus on the hammer or it's placement in the Univers. You just look at the head of the nail, and hit it everytime. You simply have a feeling that tells you where the head of the hammer is situated at any time of the swing. Long time ago you probably forgot how it felt, before you learned to use a hammer. I'm sure it was hard, and that it hurt quite a few times.

When a seamstress puts her hand with the needle into the crown of a hat, she knows exactly where the needle will penetrate the outside of the crown. You don't! It'll pop up the most weird an unexpected places on the crown - not necessarily even close to the ribbon.

Instead you can mount two needles on the thread and "park" them both in the outside of the crown close to where you want to put the stitch. Tighten the ribbon and take a needle and stick it though the ribbon and felt. In the same groove of the ribbon you then stick the other needle and finish off by tying a knot on the inside of the crown.

This approach may not seem as nice and elegant as when a skilled hatter or seamstress sews the whole ribbon with only one thread, that runs around the inside of the hat. Nevertheless, it may very well end up looking a lot nicer in our amateur hands. If you do enough hats, you will probably learn to do it "the right way", but it takes quite some time to master.

 

[DOGMAN]

TheDane,That two needle trick sounds interesting.I think I'll give it a try... Thanks.