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- 15,563
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- East Central Indiana
You might ask Diamond Dave if he would try it (?).
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New Eastman Leather Clothing "Escape" A-2
- Thread starter willyto
- Start date
You might ask Diamond Dave if he would try it (?).
TiltRotorFlyer
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 304
- Location
- New York
Thanks HD I asked him already and he said no he doesn't think the GW leather would take a re-dye. I then asked Dena at great leather .com and she said the following:
These worn redyes you are referring to I don't believe are being done as a second procedure to the dying process. I believe these companies are buying skins tanned out for them with that look. I know John isn't dying his skins, he doesn't have time for that. He sends all of his service work to me.
I believe his horsehide jackets are more of a pull-up leather and not suited to a topical dye. Anyway, I wouldn't want to try it. I redye and restore coats that have had the top layer worn off and are able to accept a hand dyeing process.
Looks like I'm outta luck unless somebody has another suggestion.
These worn redyes you are referring to I don't believe are being done as a second procedure to the dying process. I believe these companies are buying skins tanned out for them with that look. I know John isn't dying his skins, he doesn't have time for that. He sends all of his service work to me.
I believe his horsehide jackets are more of a pull-up leather and not suited to a topical dye. Anyway, I wouldn't want to try it. I redye and restore coats that have had the top layer worn off and are able to accept a hand dyeing process.
Looks like I'm outta luck unless somebody has another suggestion.
a2jacketpatches
Vendor
- Messages
- 234
- Location
- Northern California
By the looks of the V. Hilts jacket the dye seems blotchy as if easily rubbed off. And if this is the case a re-dye has most likely rubbed off on the wrong thing more than once. So my suggestion would be to use an acrylic paint like Createx dark brown with bond all and catalyst applied by airbrush. It would be a solid application that wouldn't rub off onto anything but may need an artistic hand to get the right look.
Also, I just recommended to a guy on VLJ to use KIWI brown shoe polish to deepen the color of a W&G A-2 from a milky pastel like brown to a reasonable russet. The polish stains well but will only tint with little ability to cover. But the idea that a similar dye might sink into the sealed finish of an A2 is not out of the question either. Maybe a burnt umber leather dye application with KIWI neutral rubbed over and the melted in with a hair dryer could work. In theory from my experience and experiments it just might be a possibility. I may dabble with it in the near future on some of JC's scraps. He sends me boxes full for making patches and some of it has clearly been over dyed successfully.
Also, I just recommended to a guy on VLJ to use KIWI brown shoe polish to deepen the color of a W&G A-2 from a milky pastel like brown to a reasonable russet. The polish stains well but will only tint with little ability to cover. But the idea that a similar dye might sink into the sealed finish of an A2 is not out of the question either. Maybe a burnt umber leather dye application with KIWI neutral rubbed over and the melted in with a hair dryer could work. In theory from my experience and experiments it just might be a possibility. I may dabble with it in the near future on some of JC's scraps. He sends me boxes full for making patches and some of it has clearly been over dyed successfully.
The dye I used on my jacket(page 5) was a leather dye usually applied with an applicator. I mixed two bottles, then sprayed it using a hobby spray gun with a can of compressed air. You let it dry a couple of days then buff it up to get the surface clean of any residual spray that has not soaked in. The jacket does have an aroma for a while but the more you wear the item, any odours will eventually disappear.
Wearing a lot will bring out the high points and also any rubbing areas in the slightly lighter base colour, in this case russet.
The jacket by the way is a very old off the shoulder Eastman house jacket. So old it has the small snaps(the best in my opinion) like some originals and a no name zip original to this jacket. I have just had this re cuffed as well.
Wearing a lot will bring out the high points and also any rubbing areas in the slightly lighter base colour, in this case russet.
The jacket by the way is a very old off the shoulder Eastman house jacket. So old it has the small snaps(the best in my opinion) like some originals and a no name zip original to this jacket. I have just had this re cuffed as well.
Neat trousers/pants by the way. You just need to do a bit of auto maintenance on bike or car with a little drinking and bar top work to get a little patina onto that jacket
Nothing looks cooler than a beat up A2 in my opinion(Oh Oh so humble)
Cooper A-2
Practically Family
- Messages
- 933
- Location
- France
Nice try Gary...love your jackets.
Any issue with Copyrights? sorry for asking.
Scrolling back a few weeks ago , a lot of sweat on an asian maker using others brands and stories.
As far as I know, here an asian Co had the first idea for this great (US movie) jacket and "Label.
Sorry for asking but now as it Looks like a EU Co. copies the idea of an asian Co.
Thx for your always sparkling comments.
Any issue with Copyrights? sorry for asking.
Scrolling back a few weeks ago , a lot of sweat on an asian maker using others brands and stories.
As far as I know, here an asian Co had the first idea for this great (US movie) jacket and "Label.
Sorry for asking but now as it Looks like a EU Co. copies the idea of an asian Co.
Thx for your always sparkling comments.
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Copyright issues?
I see various jacket makers (Aero, ELC, LW and GW to name but four) making A2 jackets made previously by other clothing companies - Dubow, Werber, Rough Wear, Star Sportswear etc. etc.) and personally, I don't think that this is any different. Buzz Rickson (Japan). There's another one.
So to speak to your point, if anything, I'd describe it as a UK company's improved-version of an Asian company's copy of an original A2 made by a US company (under licensed brand) that was re-dyed (modified) after issue (perhaps by another US company).
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- Messages
- 10,181
- Location
- Pasadena, CA
Cooper A-2
Practically Family
- Messages
- 933
- Location
- France
Thanks a lot. Knew it was coming.
Copy not the brands ....but the idea...
Again, no worries just asking.
thx But, thx SB.
rgds
Copy not the brands ....but the idea...
Again, no worries just asking.
thx But, thx SB.
rgds
a2jacketpatches
Vendor
- Messages
- 234
- Location
- Northern California
Not sure where I picked it up, but saw the V. HILTS tag being done somewhere, and copied it. All copies from the get go, so copying and Asian Co. ?
a2jacketpatches
Vendor
- Messages
- 234
- Location
- Northern California
Now I remember where I picked it up. I got a better, more accurate font closer to the original. So I actually improved on an idea making it more than just a "copy"
Looks like Gary got things a lot closer to the original jacket as well, kudos to him. It really looks the part.
Looks like Gary got things a lot closer to the original jacket as well, kudos to him. It really looks the part.
HPA Rep
Vendor
- Messages
- 855
- Location
- New Jersey
We're waiting on updates from Gary Eastman, who has been away, and now back but likely up to his neck getting caught up on things. I think something will be forthcoming soon, but we'll see ...
HPA Rep
Vendor
- Messages
- 855
- Location
- New Jersey
Thank YOU for your interest!
aswatland
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,338
- Location
- Kent, England
The Hilts jacket is now up on the ELC site.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/type-reissue-escape-p-464.html
http://www.eastmanleather.com/type-reissue-escape-p-464.html
HPA Rep
Vendor
- Messages
- 855
- Location
- New Jersey
The Eastman "Escape" A-2 is not just made of leather dyed dark brown and then given an aging process. The "Escape" A-2 is truly finished in the manner of the vintage jackets, so it starts out in Havana Brown, then it is assembled into a completed jacket, and then the dark brown dye is applied by hand over the entirety of the jacket, thread and all, and, finally, it is the given an artful treatment of TimeWear, all done by Gary Eastman personally.
The only other effort to match this, absent the TimeWear, was a limited run of A-2's offered by HPA a few years ago under the name "Cooler King." These went a step further and actually had the dye partly stripped off from the factory, which followed the guidelines in the directive of the Air Corps Material Command. I formulated the dye for these and I also personally applied the dye to every example we sold, which was a full labor of love and not of profit when the time is factored in, much the same being the case for Gary Eastman on the "Escape" A-2's.
Gary and I are now pondering whether the HPA "Escape" A-2's will also be done by HPA here, thus adding a level of artful distinction between place of refinishing, much as would occur on vintage examples, and, of course, the TimeWear would be different in some ways. Wayyyyyy back when HPA pioneered the Rough Wear 1401-P as a 350-piece limited run in 1994, these were photographed and promoted with hand-applied vintage wear to illustrate how good they could look, and the earliest examples were sold this way to those who wanted one looking vintage, so to that extant I was the first person I know of to do this sort of thing on a retail basis.
The "Buzz Rickson's HPA "Cooler King" A-2 of a few years back is shown below, cropped out from it's original page
:
The only other effort to match this, absent the TimeWear, was a limited run of A-2's offered by HPA a few years ago under the name "Cooler King." These went a step further and actually had the dye partly stripped off from the factory, which followed the guidelines in the directive of the Air Corps Material Command. I formulated the dye for these and I also personally applied the dye to every example we sold, which was a full labor of love and not of profit when the time is factored in, much the same being the case for Gary Eastman on the "Escape" A-2's.
Gary and I are now pondering whether the HPA "Escape" A-2's will also be done by HPA here, thus adding a level of artful distinction between place of refinishing, much as would occur on vintage examples, and, of course, the TimeWear would be different in some ways. Wayyyyyy back when HPA pioneered the Rough Wear 1401-P as a 350-piece limited run in 1994, these were photographed and promoted with hand-applied vintage wear to illustrate how good they could look, and the earliest examples were sold this way to those who wanted one looking vintage, so to that extant I was the first person I know of to do this sort of thing on a retail basis.
The "Buzz Rickson's HPA "Cooler King" A-2 of a few years back is shown below, cropped out from it's original page
- Messages
- 10,181
- Location
- Pasadena, CA
Over $1500 for an off the rack, so to speak is a no go in my book. And honestly, it looks better with the Hilts adornments on it...just my 2¢, American.
HPA Rep
Vendor
- Messages
- 855
- Location
- New Jersey
The hand painting of the new color and subsequent application of Time Wear is very time consuming to get it to look vintage and not contrived, in addition to doing it in a way that emulates the depot dye without being too over the top and messy, so while I appreciate your opinion, I'd argue that this is only off the rack in size, but it's a hand-painted, one-of-a-kind A-2 that sucks up time like a black hole.
My own taste is also for the Hilts or just one w/ a decal, since the latter is what a re-dyed A-2 would have and I think offering a jacket as such is really cool and different vs. a Hilts.
- Messages
- 10,181
- Location
- Pasadena, CA
I like the "Cooler King" - just watched the movie last weekend on TMC (all three hours) for the first time in a while...
I get the process takes time, etc. and surely appreciate that. I guess when I question this it's as an average person looking at a repop. I know lots of reenactors and they vary from cheap-ass farbies to guys that spend a ton. You'll have to find the latter and nuts here that appreciate the jackets at that price I think. But I supposed that's the goal, and with that, I'd wager it will sell in smaller numbers.
I definitely appreciate them doing it - keeping alive a great character from a great movie!
I get the process takes time, etc. and surely appreciate that. I guess when I question this it's as an average person looking at a repop. I know lots of reenactors and they vary from cheap-ass farbies to guys that spend a ton. You'll have to find the latter and nuts here that appreciate the jackets at that price I think. But I supposed that's the goal, and with that, I'd wager it will sell in smaller numbers.
I definitely appreciate them doing it - keeping alive a great character from a great movie!
