NEW Alexander Leathers Detroit in Horween Bison - PIC HEAVY

[IXL]

I agree, I'm more about comfort than looks. If the jacket is uncomfortable I'll never wear it. The whole slim look thing has nothing to do with function or comfort. If I cant move right in the jacket I wont wear it riding or pretty much at all. Also everyone is built differently and jackets are sized by chest size, not shoulders, which is usually why I have to size up.

I know what you mean. One time I was in Dallas and tried on an expensive leather jacket in a store. I liked the fit but both my wife and the salesman suggested I size down a bit, as the jacket style needed to be "trim!" After managing to shoehorn myself into that smaller jacket, everyone around thought it looked just fantastic: two hot women offered to have my baby......my wife wanted a date, and the salesman requested I give him some masculinity lessons. Only trouble was, I couldn't lift either hand and touch my opposite shoulder. Everyone sold me on the idea that it just needed a little break-in time and as we left the store with my new sausage skin I was already experiencing buyers remorse, but for a remorseful guy I was damned good looking in that thing.

I came to my senses a few days later and exchanged the jacket back for the larger size. And now, even though women no longer throw their underwear in front of my feet as I stroll by, I still look great in the larger jacket, even if it isn't quite as "flattering," and I can even hoist a bottle of Coke up to my mouth!!

Maybe if I could just rent that smaller jacket once in a while.......

 

[HDRnR]

I know what you mean. One time I was in Dallas and tried on an expensive leather jacket in a store. I liked the fit but both my wife and the salesman suggested I size down a bit, as the jacket style needed to be "trim!" After managing to shoehorn myself into that smaller jacket, everyone around thought it looked just fantastic: two hot women offered to have my baby......my wife wanted a date, and the salesman requested I give him some masculinity lessons. Only trouble was, I couldn't lift either hand and touch my opposite shoulder. Everyone sold me on the idea that it just needed a little break-in time and as we left the store with my new sausage skin I was already experiencing buyers remorse, but for a remorseful guy I was damned good looking in that thing.

I came to my senses a few days later and exchanged the jacket back for the larger size. And now, even though women no longer throw their underwear in front of my feet as I stroll by, I still look great in the larger jacket, even if it isn't quite as "flattering," and I can even hoist a bottle of Coke up to my mouth!!

Maybe if I could just rent that smaller jacket once in a while.......

Good one, you nailed it. :eusa_clap

 

[Smithy]

I'm pretty sure they just chose the name because "Detroit" sounds tough, cool, and is associated with hard-working blue collar types (think union auto workers or garage mechanics). It's quite a compliment!

Coincidently the Beeb has an article today on their site discussing companies using the Detroit name:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25509923

 

[Capesofwrath]

Can't say I like these names. I prefer a name like 50's Half Belt to the fancy new names from the Scottish makers. Certainly isn't a selling point with me. I have a so called Drifter with some mods but I never think of it by that name it's just an AL HB to me.

 

[thor]

"Highwayman" has a nice ring to it, though.

 

[Capesofwrath]

"Highwayman" has a nice ring to it, though.

Yes, bit of history to that.

 

[Plumbline]

But even that has been used by several manufacturers .. in fact one manufacturer of M/C jackets was even called "Highwayman" in the 60's and 70's ...... and it has been the source of much litigation !

 

[Highwaymanman]

But even that has been used by several manufacturers .. in fact one manufacturer of M/C jackets was even called "Highwayman" in the 60's and 70's ...... and it has been the source of much litigation !

Yeah, and the signature jacket from that maker as copied by AL is the Nebraska....! Still waiting for the first one of those to show up on here as it goes, I think the design is very nice indeed.

 

[Capesofwrath]

But even that has been used by several manufacturers .. in fact one manufacturer of M/C jackets was even called "Highwayman" in the 60's and 70's ...... and it has been the source of much litigation !

Yes about ten years ago or so Lewis Leathers wanted to call one of their new jackets that. The original company which had used the name had been subsumed into LL some years ago apparently and they thought they had the right to the name and wanted to trademark it. Aero took action against them to protect their right to the name and won.

 

[Edward]

Yes about ten years ago or so Lewis Leathers wanted to call one of their new jackets that. The original company which had used the name had been subsumed into LL some years ago apparently and they thought they had the right to the name and wanted to trademark it. Aero took action against them to protect their right to the name and won.

That is consistent with UK TM law, yes. A trade mark can be either common law, or registered. A common law mark can only be protected while the person wishing to use it can show that they have the "goodwill" in the name (i.e. the market associates it specifically with them). A TM registered under the system set out in legislation (currently in the UK the Trade Marks Act 1994) - hence Registered Trade Mark - allows the holder a monopoly to use the mark against all others, preventing either the use of an identical mark for a wide range of similar goods, or a similar mark for indentical goods. The concept of the TM, at least in theory, is to allow the customer to be able to distinguish the source of the goods (debatable in these days of mulitnational conglomerates, but still) - prevention of confusion. It'd be likely that I'd be ruled in breach of a Registrered TM in Aero if I set up a rival company and incorporated "Aero" into the name, or if I made a jacket based on an identical design to one of their existing range and gave it a similar name, incorporating "Aero" or Highwayman or whatever into that name. In the eyes of the law, it's the same thing as those "Calvin Kay" undercrackers you see on cheap marketstalls. A UK Registered Trade Mark, crucially, must be re-registered every ten years in order to remain valid. Again, usage is crucial: if the registered mark is not actually used in trade, it can be presumed to have been registered in bad faith (i.e. for purposes other than the protection of a trade mark - such as to prevent others from using the mark even where there is no intent for a company to use it itself). This is common across the world, including in the US. This will be why Highwayman was up for grabs when Aero started using it back in the Eighties, despite having been used in the past by someone else. Similarly, Mosrite of California Guitars (a Japanese company, making all its guitars in Japan) bears no relationship whatever to Semi Moseley's original outfit. Marks can lose their protection by "dilution" - essentially where the mark becomes such a common usage for all items of that type that it is no longer something which can distinguish origin. This is a key reason why companies as diverse as Aero, Fender Instruments and Google (in their opposition to the use of "Googling" as a verb) are ready to go to law to protect their use of their marks. (That said, it seems to take a lot to reach the level of dilution, but it has happened in the past - in the USA, examples include YoYo, Zipper, and Aspirin). There are a few other kinks and quirks in the regime, but that's the thrust of how it works. There has certainly been an academic debate in the past as to whether it is "fair" to allow a company to adopt a name from the past like this, which certainly is something that would have a big impact in the sort of niche market we favour. Personally, I don't have a problem with it as long as the mark isn't being used in bad faith - e.g. say NohDee Cars go out of business, then in ten years time I come along and sell a reproduction claiming to be the same company... that'd be bang out of order.

Anyhow, sorry to digress (though I don't think Plumbline specifically forbade a discussion on TM law, so it should be okay? ).

 

[Edward]

Yeah, and the signature jacket from that maker as copied by AL is the Nebraska....! Still waiting for the first one of those to show up on here as it goes, I think the design is very nice indeed.

I'm actually surprised we haven't seen one of those round here as of yet, given how popular a style it has been for a long time, both within the high-end leather niche and (as a generic shape, albeit with many smaller differences such as multi-piece backs and so on) more mainstream fashion / middle market manufacturers.

 

[simonc]

Good stuff Edward.

 

[Capesofwrath]

That is consistent with UK TM law, yes. A trade mark can be either common law, or registered. A common law mark can only be protected while the person wishing to use it can show that they have the "goodwill" in the name (i.e. the market associates it specifically with them). A TM registered under the system set out in legislation (currently in the UK the Trade Marks Act 1994) - hence Registered Trade Mark - allows the holder a monopoly to use the mark against all others, preventing either the use of an identical mark for a wide range of similar goods, or a similar mark for indentical goods. The concept of the TM, at least in theory, is to allow the customer to be able to distinguish the source of the goods (debatable in these days of mulitnational conglomerates, but still) - prevention of confusion. It'd be likely that I'd be ruled in breach of a Registrered TM in Aero if I set up a rival company and incorporated "Aero" into the name, or if I made a jacket based on an identical design to one of their existing range and gave it a similar name, incorporating "Aero" or Highwayman or whatever into that name. In the eyes of the law, it's the same thing as those "Calvin Kay" undercrackers you see on cheap marketstalls. A UK Registered Trade Mark, crucially, must be re-registered every ten years in order to remain valid. Again, usage is crucial: if the registered mark is not actually used in trade, it can be presumed to have been registered in bad faith (i.e. for purposes other than the protection of a trade mark - such as to prevent others from using the mark even where there is no intent for a company to use it itself). This is common across the world, including in the US. This will be why Highwayman was up for grabs when Aero started using it back in the Eighties, despite having been used in the past by someone else. Similarly, Mosrite of California Guitars (a Japanese company, making all its guitars in Japan) bears no relationship whatever to Semi Moseley's original outfit. Marks can lose their protection by "dilution" - essentially where the mark becomes such a common usage for all items of that type that it is no longer something which can distinguish origin. This is a key reason why companies as diverse as Aero, Fender Instruments and Google (in their opposition to the use of "Googling" as a verb) are ready to go to law to protect their use of their marks. (That said, it seems to take a lot to reach the level of dilution, but it has happened in the past - in the USA, examples include YoYo, Zipper, and Aspirin). There are a few other kinks and quirks in the regime, but that's the thrust of how it works. There has certainly been an academic debate in the past as to whether it is "fair" to allow a company to adopt a name from the past like this, which certainly is something that would have a big impact in the sort of niche market we favour. Personally, I don't have a problem with it as long as the mark isn't being used in bad faith - e.g. say NohDee Cars go out of business, then in ten years time I come along and sell a reproduction claiming to be the same company... that'd be bang out of order.

Anyhow, sorry to digress (though I don't think Plumbline specifically forbade a discussion on TM law, so it should be okay? ).

Quite dense prose there Edward. This is your area I gather so you can pick the bones out of the judgment here.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/o21605.pdf

 

[Edward]

Quite dense prose there Edward. This is your area I gather so you can pick the bones out of the judgment here.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/o21605.pdf

Thanks, I've never seen this document before, that clarifies a lot - essentially Aero objected to an application for a mark, rather than suing Lewis directly. Otherwise, it's the same point of law - Lewis wanted to register it as a mark for an identical class of goods for which Aero had already been using it for around twenty years at this point, which is a no-no. I can well understand, though, that a layman could easily assume that if they had bought the original company they had bought the name also. Bloody lawyers, eh?

 

[Plumbline]

A slight digression ... but indulge me ( im the OP )

I was sooooooooo desperate for a "Real" Highwayman in the late 80's ...... I had a Schott version ( which actually predated the Aero one ) which got nicked in Liverpool in 88..... but as a young Scots lad playing in bands and hanging around the borders the Aero "Highwayman" was the one to have ...... eventually bought one second hand in the early 90's ( a Conelly sp? leather one) which I had relined in 2010 by Aero and Ken actually bought back off me on Ebay for £165 ( it was marked a 44" but sized like a 38" ) ..... I paid £75 for it in 1993/4 off of a guy in the "Solid Rock" pub in Glasgow (which was a chunk of change then I can tell you)

Happy days .....

 

[winterland1]

Plumbline you have some great leather history. How did people know what jackets were cool before the internet? Half kidding.

 

[pauleway]

Personally I don't care for this style of jacket but you wear it well PL.

+1, Some nice grain on that one - Congrats!

 

[morrison2951]

Yep- that grain is killer! Nice!!:eusa_clap

 

[thor]

Expect to see some awesome pics once you get afew months of hard wear on that jacket; will only get better with age! Enjoy the break-in!

 

[Tinytim]

Plumbline, I managed to view a few of your threads this afternoon, you sure have good taste in jacket designs, the pictures of your jackets are inspiring. I must compliment you on the choice of grain on the leather of the Detroit. Really beautiful, leather should have visual impact on the surface grain and not just shiny.