Name The Last Time There Was So Much Naked

[scotrace]

In the park this evening, watching the people while my children played.
There was so much... skin. And several thoughts kind of came together for me.
To restate the obvious: Americans are fat. In the park, finding thin or even acceptably trim examples of our species was a challenge. I made it a little game and spotted three (ruling out teenagers), out of hundreds.
And still, there was all this exposed skin. Halter tops, short shorts, bare legs, bare muffin tops spilling over hiphuggers, tube tops, tank tops, etc. And those were the folks off the AARP bus.
You know, nude beaches are populated by people who should not be nude on a beach. The same is so off the beach. Why do so many people show off so much skin when they'd be better off to cover it up?
I'm thinking, and this is my point of curiosity, that both men and women, for century piled on century, covered it up. A woman with a less-than-perfect figure, in a long dress or gown, with a tuck here, a dart there, some pleats or a bit of padding, could appear to be darn near perfect and no one need be the wiser. Even men were expected to cover all but their faces and, in certain circumstances, their hands. Why did we give that up in favor of showing off all the wobbly bits? Instead of wondering what a woman may look like without her chemise, we just look on, aghast.
So I'm looking for your thoughts. Has there ever been a time, since, say, the time of the Greeks and Romans, when it was the norm for the populace of a Western culture to go about half naked? And why do we do so now? Why do we so willingly display our unattractive flaws (which we all have)?
This is, by the way, not meant to offend those of us who carry extra pounds. That's not the point. At 43, I would like to shed a few. But I'm not going to show you my wobbly bits unless we are intimately involved.

 

[Strider]

Maybe it's the whole "if you've got it, flaunt it" mentality (thanks, Jerry Springer!). A lot of people run around showing off their baby fat and jelly rolls these days, maybe because they think that they should just "be accepted for who they are" instead of striving for any level of decency.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Maybe it is a sign of a declining society?

As you stated in your post, this trend was only observed in ancient Greek and Roman cultures. We all know what happened to them. I fear we are headed in the same direction.

Recent posts here which allude to the general decline of basic good taste, and indeed, society as a whole on this earth, make me think of George Orwell's 1984.

Ignorance is Strength
War is Peace
Love is Hate

Scary, I know,...but a trend I have noticed as I am sure everyone else here has also noticed.
But I will always fight it. I will always try to take the high road. I will never surrender.

 

[magneto]

...SNIP excellent thoughtprovoking post...
So I'm looking for your thoughts. Has there ever been a time, since, say, the time of the Greeks and Romans, when it was the norm for the populace of a Western culture to go about half naked? And why do we do so now? Why do we so willingly display our unattractive flaws (which we all have)?
...

Well during the Directoire period in France (post-Revolution) there was a (IMHO) degraded neoclassical influence which spread from the arenas of politics/philosophy where they had long held influence, into, yes, fashion, which provided an excuse for society matrons and others to wear bosom-exposing transparent pseudo-Grecian dresses. It seems a lot of people got little from Rousseau et al aside from the idea that social artifice, i.e. formal and concealing clothing, manners, inter alia, was de facto evil: one-dimensional "naturalism" as an excuse for licentious behavior and dress...

This idea (so-called social artifice as something "bad"), if we may dignify it as such, is widespread in our own era both as a hangover from the former 60s counterculture but even earlier, from the mass mania for psychotherapy which seized the West in the 50s, again, with the influence on individuality (as though the individual exists in total isolation from society!), on self-gratification (because denying yourself will lead to neuroses) on "self-esteem" without having to earn that esteem by measuring oneself against objective standards, on absolute entitlement. Quasi-nudity/dressing disrespectfully informally/presenting oneself in an inapproprately sexualized manner is, thus, one's birthright according to this solipsistic creed that is incessantly repeated in both high and low media.

Or something.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Yeah.

This attitude has been with us to one degree or another throughout our history, but maybe never to the extent that it has gone to now.
Seems as though the majority is into an anything goes "philosophy" these days, not just small groups of people that feel it's cool and trendy to rebel against the norm. And I think you're right that it is a hangover from the sixties.

 

[Andykev]

Oink

My friend from Italy often comments on the obesity and slob factor in Americans. You see his photos of people in Italy, the women are trim and well dressed, quite appealing. The men are dressed nicely, and are fit. We are getting lazy in America, perhaps?

 

[Sefton]

I work outdoors most of the time and I see so much exposed flesh that I've learned to ignore it. As has been noted already, many of these people are far from in the best condition so learning to ignore them is quite necessary (San Francisco, Golden Gate Park: "Be afraid. Be Very Afraid!" ) Now a bit of naked flesh won't get much reaction from me...but I love to see a well dressed lady.

 

[Feraud]

I am not the type to cry, "the End is nigh!". lol Trends come and go. One generation is exposing their unattractive body parts and next is rebelling by wearing high, starched collars. I doubt the exposure of unattractive bodies are a sign of the apocalypse. Tho' is sure looks it..

I think the problem is twofold. First we Americans are too lazy to put the effort to dress appropriate. I have seen grown men wear jeans, work boots, and untucked button down shirts at a funeral. One can argue the corpse is not going to take offense but if there is such thing as respect for the dead these folks do not have it. The irony is we revel in our individuality(slovenliness) yet spend a lot of money for some "guru" to teach us how to get our lives organized! How about beginning with a simple, clean outfit?

Next is the lack of "training" to dress appropriate. As fashion, standards, and expectations(an important idea) becomes more lax the population loses their knowledge of what is appropriate and expected of them in particular situations. Hence the velour jumpsuits with the thong running up the young ladies backs. Back to the funeral example.. If a grown man is dressing like a construction worker to a funeral, I will expect him to do likewise at church, weddings, and other "dressy" functions. If this same adult male has a family what do you think his children are going to wear? How about his wife?

It is not the end of Western Civilization as we know it. Folks are going to walk around butt ugly for a long time but I take solace in our Fedora Lounge. Every time I see someone showing off a new hat, suit, or dress I think things can only get better.

 

[Sefton]

My friend from Italy often comments on the obesity and slob factor in Americans. You see his photos of people in Italy, the women are trim and well dressed, quite appealing. The men are dressed nicely, and are fit. We are getting lazy in America, perhaps?

Things may be changing though. I deal with tourists everyday and a lot of them now look just as sloppy as we do here. Sadly, even the Italians. I think the American way is rapidly overtaking the old world ways. At this time the best dressed tourists seem to be from Korea and China. Suits and ties. Sharp dressed !

 

[Sefton]

... Folks are going to walk around butt ugly for a long time but I take solace in our Fedora Lounge. Every time I see someone showing off a new hat, suit, or dress I think things can only get better.

Amen for that brother!:eusa_clap

 

[KAT]

SKIN

 

[KAT]

So I'm looking for your thoughts. Has there ever been a time, since, say, the time of the Greeks and Romans, when it was the norm for the populace of a Western culture to go about half naked? And why do we do so now? unless we are intimately involved.

I used to go to Saunas! A common thing in "our Western culture"
And: we are not half naked..noo....we get completely naked and just imagine...men and women together all in one hot room..not the steamy ones! I dont go to the steamy ones...thats like cheatinglol
Reason: good for your health not to flirt or something like that!You just dont care if their naked or not. end of story!

 

[matei]

I think a good deal has to do with laziness.

Many people can't be bothered to put on adult clothing and make themselves presentable. Not only that, but they don't put the effort in to keep themselves fit - rather they let themselves go. Combine the two and... yuck.

Speaking of inappropriate skin...

This morning I was climbing the stairs along with the rest of the herd at Moorgate tube station. Pretty close quarters, it was rush hour. I happened to look up because the person in front and above me suddenly stopped, and I didn't want to hit them in the rear.

Good think I looked. It was a rather large lass, with the top quarter of her bum exposed. Think "plumber's crack". Egads, not what you want to see a mere foot or two away from your face.

There is no excuse for that sort of display. People should either buy a belt, or trousers that fit.

 

[Strider]

Seriously. I don't know what it is about that. How do women with huge rear ends go walking around with a g-string hanging out, much less think it's fashionable for them to do so? Oh, man. Just. Yecch. :eusa_doh:

Not only that, but these same people act crude toward people who ARE fit, and jeer them as if they were on some 3rd grade playground, making fun of the skinny kid for not being fat and overweight like the rest of them. :rage:

"I hate being fat! *munches on bon bons* I can't do anything about it *eat* I just have *chomp* such a large *slurp* frame!!"

 

[scotrace]

Let me rephrase...

I don't want to give the impression that we shuld attack or demean the overweight. My criteria for "trim" at the park were strict: absolutely flat stomach, no arm flab, single chin. Those people are rare everywehere, at least in the US.
At first there was a woman in a green plunging leotard with black gym shorts over. It wasn't that she was so plump, or that her hair was a mess, or that her bra size was 50 Long (with no support to be found). It's that she was so unconcerned about being seen that way.
Then I began to look around and it was the norm - 90% of the people I saw were dressed that way - in a fairly conservative midwestern town. When I was a kid, I remember ladies talking about what they could and could not "get away with" in clothes. Now the only question is "do those hip huggers come in my size?"
Remember in school seeing those funny pictures of all those Russians on the beach in the former Soviet Union? Remember how we all chuckled at the Big Russians uncovering themselves to their underwear on the streets as a group at the sight of a bit of sunlight? We're that now.
Do men ask themselves if everyone wants to see their Summer Sweater back fur? (in GRAY. Yick)
Sefton, you nailed it. All this overexposure does nothing for me. But let me encounter a well-dressed lady of any size, shape or color, and I am enchanted, aroused, interested, pleased, ready to make an attempt at charm.
Magneto: Yes! I had forgotten the paintings of ladies in sheer-front Empire gowns.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Personally I think it's a political statement that's been repeated so often it's become disconnected from its context and become utterly meaningless. When the hippie generation started throwing their clothes off and declaring "if it feels good do it!" they were -- supposedly -- making a "bold rebellion" against the strictures of their parents' generation. The idea was as much to shock and distress society as it was anything else. Same thing with the dumping of bras and girdles and such by second-wave feminists -- it was more a political act than just seeking greater personal comfort.

But now, going on forty years later, that "rebellion" has itself become so mainstream and so embedded in the culture that it's become, in itself, an act of mindless lockstep conformity. People go around dressed in next to nothing simply because everyone else does, and they don't want to seem different. So by *putting clothes on* WE become the real rebels and nonconformists of this era.

Forget "let it all hang out, baby." The new slogan for our times needs to be "Suck it all back in!"

 

[Quigley Brown]

You know, nude beaches are populated by people who should not be nude on a beach.

Although I've never been to a nude beach I think that they are for people who are comfortable with their bodies....whatever size they are.

I think if you check out any period of world history and you're going to find large people. I believe that plump women were considered quite attractive in the 19th century...judging from paintings. Even Louis Prima liked buying big banana splits for his baby.

 

[scotrace]

One Last Time

It's not the "plump." It's the "Showing the Body."



People look better in clothes that disguise the imperfections than they do exposing them. So why have we abandonded the art of looking our best?


There! That's it, in a nutshell.






Plus, there's Marc's point: Groups of naked people are stinky.

 

[KAT]

what a fun subject for miss kathy

 

[KAT]

Plus, there's Marc's point: Groupf of naked people are stinky.

no way i ve been around the other group..they stink even more sometimes