Myths of the Golden Era -- Exploded!

[Flicka]

It's interesting when these things are seized on and commercialised. It can produce something fun: the Monkees' were responsible for bringing some great pop music to the world, and the TV show was not only hilarious as a kid, but when you look at it now really rather anarchic and occasionally pretty subversive too (see for example the very first episode, when Peter steals towels from the hotel linen closet, and the think bubble over his head says "Everybody does it!").

My favourite was always an episode where they are chased by, I think, Dracula and Frankenstein, and one of them says "Scary!" and one of the others turns to the camera and says: "But what's really scary is that you can't say *beep* on television!"

It did cause a lot of tension, yes. Peter and Mike were musicians turned actors, while Davy and Mickey both came from an acting background (Davy had a role for a while in television soap opera Coronation Street), albeit with a significant level of musical theatre. They did develop over time - Mickey became a very skilled drummer, actually. Later on the Monkees themselves both wrote and played more - if memory serves, it was the third album on which, according to Mickey, they played "every f**king note".

Yup, I remember that. And making the same record I seem to recall that they had what is commonly noted as "artistic differences" with the people behind them because they wanted to push the envelope in terms of music and the producers weren't really too keen on that.

BTW, wasn't Peter a folk singer?

 

[p51]

The bottom line here is that it's very dangerous to look at historical issues though the lens of a modern point of view.

Amen to that as well! I was raised in the south and I found it funny that as a kid in the 70s, it was just fine to openly talk about Confederate victories against the "Yankees," especially early in the war. The largest battle fought in my home state of Florida was a sound thrashing of Union forces in their advance Westward against a well-planned Confederate defense at the cow town of Olustee. A landing force the following spring against hit and run raids from North Florida met with equal disaster at Natural Bridge, where aged and formerly wounded veterans, along with cadets of what is now Florida State University were waiting in well-entrenched positions at the only usable crossing of the St Marks river. All of these were sources of pride among the locals.
These days, however, you can't discuss how farmers, crippled old men and boy cadets managed to beat the holy heck out of well-trained Union forces. Nope, the focus is on slavery now. And in my mind, that's so unfair to those who fought there (many survivors of Olustee said the fighting was the worst they'd ever seen, and this was from people who'd been at Gettysburg).
Same thing for the internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2. Today, we call that a horrible thing (and it is, with the benefit of hindsight), but it HAS to be judged in the context of the time. It's funny how the same people who would decry that are the ones who would say the tightening of personal freedoms after 9/11 were okay because, "It's not the same thing."

 

[scottyrocks]

I have loved The Monkees since my childhood. Their second album, More of The Monkees, was my first ever record album, bought for me by my grandparents. I was seven years old.

I eventually collected all their other original albums (5), each time I had three dollars saved up.

I played those albums endlessly, often one right after another. I memorized every word of every song. My friends and I would set ourselves up on my front porch with pots and pans for drums, and broomsticks for guitars, with the Victrola on the inside windowsill, and play the songs and sing them just like they did on the TV show. I had a green wool knit cap. No pom-pom, though.

The Monkees TV show was about as avant garde as TV shows had been up to that point. It was clever and ridiculous at the same time. I watched it for years, whenever it was shown in syndication.

The Beatles, Stones, Elvis, etc, weren't even a blip on our screens.

 

[Stearmen]

The Great Ax Man

And yet the Monkees were still a far superior band to the Beatles, and I'll go to my grave defending that view.

I despised the Monkees with every fiber in my body back in the day! Then MTV had to fill space and started to air the reruns. That is when I discovered that we will all be indebted to them for ever. It was the Monkees who brought Jimi Hendrix back to America. I just wish I could have been at one of their conserts and seen the faces of those Bubble Gum fans when Jimi started to play! Priceless.

 

[MikeBravo]

Yup, I remember that. And making the same record I seem to recall that they had what is commonly noted as "artistic differences" with the people behind them because they wanted to push the envelope in terms of music and the producers weren't really too keen on that.

There is a song called "Honey, honey" by the Archies. Bloody awful

The record company wanted the Monkees to record that song, and the Monkees didn't want to.

Apparently Peter Tork put his fist through a wall during a blazing row. Of course the song was a huge hit for this truly manufactured group (they were cartoon characters, and the music was done by session musicians)

 

[gtdean48]

There is a song called "Honey, honey" by the Archies. Bloody awful
...

Actually, song was "Sugar, Sugar"....still "bloody awful" by any name...

 

[1961MJS]

Actually, song was "Sugar, Sugar"....still "bloody awful" by any name...

Hi

Well, bubble gum sons are for 10 year olds. I looked up the song and found that it was Billboard Song of the Year (single?). I didn't notice the musicians names. I KNOW it's a cartoon series tune, but come on, Song of the year and the musicians aren't given much notice.

Later

 

[Edward]

I despised the Monkees with every fiber in my body back in the day! Then MTV had to fill space and started to air the reruns. That is when I discovered that we will all be indebted to them for ever. It was the Monkees who brought Jimi Hendrix back to America. I just wish I could have been at one of their conserts and seen the faces of those Bubble Gum fans when Jimi started to play! Priceless.

Ha yes.... probably the most bizarre touring pairing ever... Didn't they share management? That's turned out ot be the reason behind some of the odder ones I've seen over the years (such as an INXS, post Hutchence, opening for Blondie - one of the worst support slots I've ever seen, even though they were billed as a co-headliner. Blondie, of course, were wonderful. Then there was Nancy Boy - pretty awful electro pop - who supported the monkeys, but that was nepotism rather than shared management. I memory serves, the guitar player was Mike's son. To be fair, I have seen worse, but they really weren't ideal for the audience... But hell, that doesn't matter. I got to see the Monkees! The only reunion tour they ever did with all four original members...).

Actually, song was "Sugar, Sugar"....still "bloody awful" by any name...

I still like it, though moreso the cover that was on the Saturday Morning album (the album which also carried The Ramones' definitive recording of the Spiderman song - Sam Raimi, go to your grave knowing burning shame that you used a pathetic attempt by the risible Aerosmith [/spits] instead of the work of majesty that joey and the boys committed to vinyl....).

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Heard it on the radio at work, yesterday. Still better than anything being recorded today, sadly.

Hi

Well, bubble gum sons are for 10 year olds. I looked up the song and found that it was Billboard Song of the Year (single?). I didn't notice the musicians names. I KNOW it's a cartoon series tune, but come on, Song of the year and the musicians aren't given much notice.

Later

 

[scottyrocks]

BTW, wasn't Peter a folk singer?

I don't know if he was back then, but about a dozen years ago I saw him and his band, Shoe Suede Blues, in a local club in my town. They did mainly blues-style rock (or rock-style blues?), some of it original, some of it covers, and, of course, some Monkees songs. Good show, overall.

 

[MikeBravo]

I still like it, though moreso the cover that was on the Saturday Morning album (the album which also carried The Ramones' definitive recording of the Spiderman song - Sam Raimi, go to your grave knowing burning shame that you used a pathetic attempt by the risible Aerosmith [/spits] instead of the work of majesty that joey and the boys committed to vinyl....).

I just love the Ramones versin of the Spiderman Theme. There have been a few different bands do it, didn't know about Aerosmith doing it though. I even have a Bluegrass version by the Alison Brown Quartet ... interesting

 

[SGT Rocket]

Amen to that as well! I was raised in the south and I found it funny that as a kid in the 70s, it was just fine to openly talk about Confederate victories against the "Yankees," especially early in the war. The largest battle fought in my home state of Florida was a sound thrashing of Union forces in their advance Westward against a well-planned Confederate defense at the cow town of Olustee. A landing force the following spring against hit and run raids from North Florida met with equal disaster at Natural Bridge, where aged and formerly wounded veterans, along with cadets of what is now Florida State University were waiting in well-entrenched positions at the only usable crossing of the St Marks river. All of these were sources of pride among the locals.
These days, however, you can't discuss how farmers, crippled old men and boy cadets managed to beat the holy heck out of well-trained Union forces. Nope, the focus is on slavery now. And in my mind, that's so unfair to those who fought there (many survivors of Olustee said the fighting was the worst they'd ever seen, and this was from people who'd been at Gettysburg).
Same thing for the internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2. Today, we call that a horrible thing (and it is, with the benefit of hindsight), but it HAS to be judged in the context of the time. It's funny how the same people who would decry that are the ones who would say the tightening of personal freedoms after 9/11 were okay because, "It's not the same thing."

I too was raised in the South. I had ancestors on my mother's side who lived and fought in an Alabama unit. On my father's side, I have two relatives, one fought for the 5th Tx Calvary, and another who was with Gen. Hood. They were brothers, and their sister married a man by the family name of Carter who spent time in a Yankee prison camp. Had other direct relatives who fought for the South on my father's mother's side. All the family were basically poor share-croppers.

I live in Minnesota now, and if I tell people about it, they think I'm a racist. I'm proud of them and what they went through and the courage they showed in standing up for States Rights. It takes a LOT of courage to stand in a line shoulder to shoulder and shoot across a field at the enemy while they shoot back at you.

 

[Two Types]

And yet the Monkees were still a far superior band to the Beatles, and I'll go to my grave defending that view.

Edward! I thought it was only myself and my daughter who held that heretical view! The issue about the use of the word 'band' might cause some problems, but when it comes down to pure pop songs, the Monkees win. My daughter has played 'I Will' by Unit 4+2 to her friends , claiming it to be scientific proof that the Beatles were no good (on the grounds that 'I Will' was also recorded in the sixties and has a very strong beat, unlike any Beatles records. Thus the reason for the weakness of the beat on Beatles records was not because the recording equipment was not good enough, but simply because they were rubbish).

My least favourite place in the whole of London is Abbey Road. Every time i drive down there I find some tourists on the zebra crossing, recreating the album cover. I only ever use that route as a short cut, so i don't like seeing people posing for photographs in the middle of the road. Last time, it was two teenage girls doing cartwheels. I shouted out 'Just cross the ******** road!' Only to see that someone was filming them.

 

[Stanley Doble]

"Thus the reason for the weakness of the beat on Beatles records was not because the recording equipment was not good enough, but simply because they were rubbish)."

Reporter: Would you say Ringo is the best drummer in the world?

John: He isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles.

 

[Stanley Doble]

I suppose you could argue about whether the Beatles or the Monkees were the best pop group of the sixties if you never heard of the Beach Boys.

My favorite Beach Boys story, even though it does not involve them directly.

I saw this anecdote years ago, it actually happened but I can't remember who the musicians were. But the story is two European musicians, well known in classical music circles, met and started discussing what they had been doing lately.

Musician 1: I've been studying a song called "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys

Musician 2: An American pop song? With two chords and seven notes?

Musician 1: Let's see you write something as effective, using only two chords and seven notes.

 

[vitanola]

Edward! I thought it was only myself and my daughter who held that heretical view! The issue about the use of the word 'band' might cause some problems, but when it comes down to pure pop songs, the Monkees win. My daughter has played 'I Will' by Unit 4+2 to her friends , claiming it to be scientific proof that the Beatles were no good (on the grounds that 'I Will' was also recorded in the sixties and has a very strong beat, unlike any Beatles records. Thus the reason for the weakness of the beat on Beatles records was not because the recording equipment was not good enough, but simply because they were rubbish).

My least favourite place in the whole of London is Abbey Road. Every time i drive down there I find some tourists on the zebra crossing, recreating the album cover. I only ever use that route as a short cut, so i don't like seeing people posing for photographs in the middle of the road. Last time, it was two teenage girls doing cartwheels. I shouted out 'Just cross the ******** road!' Only to see that someone was filming them.

I care for neither band, for do not like electric guitar based pop, but would ask whether the Monkees would have existed had there been no Beatles.

That said, I much prefer Jim Europe, Bix, BG, or, for heaven's sake even the B. F. Goodrich Silvertown Cord Orchestra to that wang-wang guitar stuff.

I am puzzled though, why is this being discussed in a thread which refers to the so-called "Golden Era"?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

It's called thread creep.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Best Pop Band of the Sixties = Most Nutritious Frozen Pudding, Best Relief Pitcher on the Red Sox, Most Honest Politician.

 

[Flicka]

Best Pop Band of the Sixties = Most Nutritious Frozen Pudding, Best Relief Pitcher on the Red Sox, Most Honest Politician.

Great. Now I'm inspired to write up a fake bio for the band Most Nutritious Frozen Pudding.

 

[Edward]

I just love the Ramones versin of the Spiderman Theme. There have been a few different bands do it, didn't know about Aerosmith doing it though. I even have a Bluegrass version by the Alison Brown Quartet ... interesting

It was a great song to begin with. Yeah, Aerosmith recorded it for Raimi's first Spidey film, but it's a dreadfully dull, pedestrian, cliched hair rock take on it. The Ramones, by contrast, made it totally their own and full of joy... Funnily enough, when I listen back to the original cut from the TV show now, it's cute, but it's the Ramones version that better captures what it felt like for me listening to the original in 1977....

Edward! I thought it was only myself and my daughter who held that heretical view! The issue about the use of the word 'band' might cause some problems, but when it comes down to pure pop songs, the Monkees win. My daughter has played 'I Will' by Unit 4+2 to her friends , claiming it to be scientific proof that the Beatles were no good (on the grounds that 'I Will' was also recorded in the sixties and has a very strong beat, unlike any Beatles records. Thus the reason for the weakness of the beat on Beatles records was not because the recording equipment was not good enough, but simply because they were rubbish).

What killed the Beatles for me (and I do rather like a lot of their stuff) was over-hyping, and them disappearing right up their own backsides.

My least favourite place in the whole of London is Abbey Road. Every time i drive down there I find some tourists on the zebra crossing, recreating the album cover. I only ever use that route as a short cut, so i don't like seeing people posing for photographs in the middle of the road. Last time, it was two teenage girls doing cartwheels. I shouted out 'Just cross the ******** road!' Only to see that someone was filming them.

Priceless! I hope that got kept in whatever was being filmed!