Mystery Jacket--Need Help Identifying

[tmitchell59]

Man, thanks for posting that FL Zipper thread! I have done a lot of research on Zippers and particularly Crowns. The FL Thread states that my Crown is NOT a Chevron design but the post Chevron "Two Way" design with symmetrical teeth that was introduced in Civilian use Post War. So I am looking to repair or replace a Crown Two Way.

Great detailed information. I had always seen this type of Crown listed as a Chevron.

I appreciate the heads up.

OK, that makes more sense in dating the jacket. Does your zipper look like this?

 

[tmitchell59]

As the zipper article mentions the Crown transitions to the Coats and Clark name. The C and C zipper was very popular with small shops that were make deerskin clothing in the 50s and 60s. A much easier zipper to source today.

 

[Claybertrand]

You have a fine eye for detail, when you see something it is worth looking at. Taubers came to mind for me with the lining, not the jacket shell. The shell just didn't remind me of a Taubers. It did remind me of the Uniform jacket I posted. So I kinda got lost. The zippers confuse me. The Chevron type Crown ended mid 1940s. The tear drop Talons are early 60s. Taubers were in business early 40s. Perhaps an early Taubers with original Crown zipper, re-lined by Taubers with the tear drop Talon zipper, then tear drop pulls added to existing zips? or all exterior pocket zips added when re-lined?

It has the square look of my police jacket, pretty standard look for these jackets. I would think Taubers would have made what ever you wanted custom.

This is the jacket I was saying has similarities to the one I posted. I may be confusing things here.

The zipper combo on the jacket I posted does certainly seem confusing from an ID'ing standpoint. Zippers are great for dating jackets with the caveat that zippers are replaceable and hence, unreliable as a sole source for dating a vintage jacket. In my jacket's case, its looking as though re-lining and possible zipper changes were made that throw the dating off if going by the zippers. My main question would be if this is a 60s jacket, why use an out of date Crown zip to go along with Talons??

Perhaps it was re-lined and had new talon zippers installed at the same time maybe in the 60s. It could be an older jacket with an original Crown Two Way main zipper that had the more recent additions done and then eventually, the main Crown failed and here we are trying to read the history based on upgrades not of the same vintage as the leather shell.

While there seems to be no way of definitively dating or ID'ing the maker of this jacket absent an exact matching example to compare it to, the odd non matching era zippers may at least make the option of replacing with a Brass #10 Talon at least a somewhat palatable option. But even a Brass Talon runs around $100.

This may just be splitting hairs somewhat here but what would you guys recommend?? Replacing with a NOS Brass #10 Talon OR for $65 more, replacing with a NOS Crown Two Way????

 

[tmitchell59]

This is the jacket I was saying has similarities to the one I posted. I may be confusing things here.

You are fine, I'm the confuser! I've been talking out loud. It has been an interesting and educational discussion. Look forward to seeing and hearing more about your jackets.

It is jacket Forensics. I'm always doing this with vintage jackets. These discussion teach me a different way to look. I'm examining a potential purchase as we speak. A police jacket of all things.

This jacket could easily be all original early 60s. The later Crown could have been matched with the Talons. I just don't see many Crown zippers. See more Coats and Clarks labeled. The corduroy lining looks like small shop custom work. A Police/Mc jacket with some deletes. maybe a Taubers.

For the zipper. I would start with searching for an original. You have time and will learn and enjoy!

 

[Claybertrand]

You are fine, I'm the confuser! I've been talking out loud. It has been an interesting and educational discussion. Look forward to seeing and hearing more about your jackets.

It is jacket Forensics. I'm always doing this with vintage jackets. These discussion teach me a different way to look. I'm examining a potential purchase as we speak. A police jacket of all things.

This jacket could easily be all original early 60s. The later Crown could have been matched with the Talons. I just don't see many Crown zippers. See more Coats and Clarks labeled. The corduroy lining looks like small shop custom work. A Police/Mc jacket with some deletes. maybe a Taubers.

For the zipper. I would start with searching for an original. You have time and will learn and enjoy!

Brother,

This site is the closest thing to a VINTAGE LEATHER JACKET CONVENTION as there likely will ever be!!!! Its great communicating with like minded people and learning. I've been reading posts in FL for a long time and a lot of what I have gleaned from the Members here have guided my jacket collecting. If I had started here first, I wouldn't have GORGED myself on Cafe Racers seeking the right fit only to realize though I like the look, the fits are awkward for me and I don't ride regularly so the functionality of a really snug fit is moot. I should have looked here first when I started buying.

Its fascinating to me not only the awesome leather jackets and their history---but the amount of other people who even CARE about such things. There are a lot of knowledgeable collectors with some REALLY KILLER antique jackets (you have some very special pieces!). I can't get enough of the LEATHER JACKET FORENSICS/ARCHAEOLOGY!!!!! I'm always doing this with vintage jackets too. The Internet is a true gift in this respect. I'm also addicted to looking for the next cool jacket buy. Every once in a while, you can still find some real gems out there that are true "Barn Finds" where someone sells you a crusty old jacket for a song but you know its true value.

I've got some European jackets that are complete mysteries and their Zippers are a new challenge.

As for this one I posted about, I am through the looking glass on this thing. Its not vitally important to know who made it. But the age, any specific uniform use, and a comparison would help perhaps guide what direction to go to replace the main zipper while keeping it as authentic to its vintage as possible. I don't wanna touch up the Mona Lisa with a Sharpie on this jacket.

The crappy thing on ID'ing the Zipper is its missing the pull altogether so I can't say if it looks like the one you posted. I CAN say it appears to be a #10 size (assuming Crown sizes as Talon does). Its a heavy gauge zipper.....its not a #5 for a medium weight jacket. I have seen C&C or Coats & Clark Two Way zippers more often than Crowns and certainly much cheaper. I'm going to be on the lookout for NOS Brass #10 Crowns, C&Cs, and Talons as a last resort. The fact it has to be Brass even further narrows the availability. As you say, I have time and to quote Clark W. Griswold, "Nothing worthwhile is easy......".

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and advice.

 

[Gamma68]

I was flipping through Tanaka’s book about HD motorcycle gear and saw this image of a Frye Glove & Coat Mfg. Co. jacket. The general appearance and description of the corduroy lining reminded me of this thread’s mystery jacket.

 

[Gamma68]

The back of the Frye jacket.

 

[Claybertrand]

Awesome brother!!!!!!!!!! I new lead!!!!!!!!! Interesting similarities here.

The Waistband area looks similar and from what we can see of the cuffs, they are similar as well. Also, besides the lower back "fan design," the upper rear yoke is a dead ringer. Of course, the corduroy lining is a real interesting aspect as well particularly if working on the theory that the lining is original in the jacket I have. It appears this model you posted also has snap down collars (though they are the hidden/under snaps).

There is also the L.A. factor---not that jackets don't often migrate from their production area but it was supposedly found in L.A. and it exhibits many traits that CA produced jackets of the era also had.

Thanks a lot for posting this!!! I'm gonna dig into this new potential maker.

 

[Gamma68]

Awesome brother!!!!!!!!!! I new lead!!!!!!!!! Interesting similarities here.

The Waistband area looks similar and from what we can see of the cuffs, they are similar as well. Also, besides the lower back "fan design," the upper rear yoke is a dead ringer. Of course, the corduroy lining is a real interesting aspect as well particularly if working on the theory that the lining is original in the jacket I have. It appears this model you posted also has snap down collars (though they are the hidden/under snaps).

There is also the L.A. factor---not that jackets don't often migrate from their production area but it was supposedly found in L.A. and it exhibits many traits that CA produced jackets of the era also had.

Thanks a lot for posting this!!! I'm gonna dig into this new potential maker.

You’re very welcome. Like you, I also love jacket forensics.

 

[Claybertrand]

AND you have a good eye man!!!!

 

[Leigh H]

Another one to add to the unknown list, but i have noticed characteristics of my unknown police jacket to a jacket Terry posted in this thread "Fashion Clothes - Mission st. San Fran"

 

[Will Zach]

Lake-O-Woods made other styles of leather jackets.

@tmitchell59, what decade would you say this Lake-O-Woods jacket is?

 

[JMax]

@Leigh H isn’t that a RP Steerhide label? I’ve only seen one other jacket with the Mission Street Label. Guess who owns it? Surprise— @tmitchell59

 

[Leigh H]

@Leigh H isn’t that a RP Steerhide label? I’ve only seen one other jacket with the Mission Street Label. Guess who owns it? Surprise— @tmitchell59

That is Terry’s Mission St label, I was comparing his collar to mine. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JMax]

That is Terry’s Mission St label, I was comparing his collar to mine. Sorry for the confusion.

NP. Ok yes. The cool steerhide label under the mission street looks like an RP label. Hopefully TM checks in. Most of those 40s and 50s jackets out of SF were pretty great.

 

[tmitchell59]

@tmitchell59, what decade would you say this Lake-O-Woods jacket is?

That beauty is from the early post-war 1940s, c.1946

 

[tmitchell59]

@Leigh H isn’t that a RP Steerhide label? I’ve only seen one other jacket with the Mission Street Label. Guess who owns it? Surprise— @tmitchell59

Yes, this is my Fashion Clothes jacket made by Ralphs-Pugh in 1938. It is the only jacket I can confirm RP made for another label. Fashion Clothes was a retailer in he same area of San Francisco. This particular label was registered in 1938.

Although similar to the lengthened jacket, they are not identical. Mine has no stitching on the pocket tops, the pockets are differently angled/positioned.

The unlabeled may be a later edition, the zipper is pot metal talon war era Talon. c.1943

The pocket stitching I don't see on RP jackets.

 

[Aloysius]

Regarding the Crown Zipper search, I HAVE located one on eBay.................its a 26" that would need to be shortened and I would need to dye the cotton tape black.......its New Old Stock----price is (gulp)$165.00

Why not get a 23.5” NOS one from MASH for less than a third of that amount?

EDIT: Sorry I just realized this was a bumped four year old thread.

 

[Claybertrand]

Why not get a 23.5” NOS one from MASH for less than a third of that amount?

EDIT: Sorry I just realized this was a bumped four year old thread.

Ol' Mystery threads NEVER die!!! Lol Thanks for your input man!!

At the time, MASH did not have any Crowns in jacket length. I ended up going with a little bit later period Brass #10 Talon that I "antiqued" a bit with salt and vinegar. It matches the other Brass Talon zippers already on the jacket. The tailor who did the replacement did an decent--not perfect job. He told me that the Crown was not the original zipper and it obviously was not brass so I was ok with going the Talon route. I have also heard the NOS crowns are brittle so this was another-- albeit less significant factor in my decision to go with the Talon. The Talon was like $100 so it wasn't so much a money saver as just a zipper that I could actually find that worked for this particular jacket.

I am almost 100% sure it is a Taubers jacket. This Mystery Jacket thread post was my first FL post ever a few years back.