My new LW J23 arrrived!

[Will Zach]

"shinki which he said is the xx, that's the only comment he gave."

@Hh121, I don't know if you know that slang expression, but if Stuart said that Shinki is the shit, it means that he likes it very much....just teasing, peace out.

 

[ton312]

Who does half up front and the rest after delivery? Serious question. I’ve only bought new from LW, Vanson (and collaboration partners), and TB for the Aero. I paid in full at time of order with all. If you tell me I’ve been doing it wrong, I am going to refill my glass with more Suntory whiskey and call it a day.

Aero and Vanson never charged me a dime before the jacket was done and pictures were sent. THurston didn’t used to charge beyond a deposit. Maybe times have changed? I bought my LW in 2010, when Stu did a summer sale and knocked off 20%. It was for that reason alone I didn’t complain.

 

[JMax]

I'm curious as to why he'd say this (or at least how a person would say this without revealing the obvious vulnerability or insecurity). Is it the shininess he doesn't like, or the makers who use it, or the way it's tanned? Or is it a long-buried, media-sublimated Pearl Harbour trauma?

He quickly stated to me that it is overpriced and doesn’t look as good as his HH. A quick blurb totally within the context of our conversation. If I had known this topic would result in such discussion here, I would have probed for details.

 

[JMax]

Aero and Vanson never charged me a dime before the jacket was done and pictures were sent. THurston didn’t used to charge beyond a deposit. Maybe times have changed? I bought my LW in 2010, when Stu did a summer sale and knocked off 20%. It was for that reason alone I didn’t complain.

Off to refill my glass. Thanks.

 

[zebedee]

He quickly stated to me that it is overpriced and doesn’t look as good as his HH. A quick blurb totally within the context of our conversation. If I had known this topic would result in such discussion here, I would have probed for details.

None of it stops me thinking that the LW peacoats are great. I don't have a shinki jacket; the ones I've seen look really good.

 

[Monitor]

I am one of those who annoyed Stuart with such a request. I would love to own a LW jacket, but I prefer mid-weight leathers (particularly because of my climate). I thought his deerskin might be the answer, but even that is rather heavy. Some have opined that Stuart's lightest offering is not dissimilar to a mid-weight leather, but my experience suggests otherwise. I will be banging down Stuart's door if he ever offers a true mid-weight leather. That said, I am not holding my breath.

Super, but LW stuff honestly is not that heavy. You can see that the heaviest jackets on the forum are around 7-8 lbs and those are all motorcycle jackets with ton of hardware, all by demand made from the thickest available hide.
LW horsehide is thick and it's heavy but I don't suppose the mid-weight J-100 is that much heavier than RMC's J-100, which I know for a fact is around 6 lbs.

What I said before, I personally find CXL wears heavier than LW.

My gripe with Stu is his payment model. All up front. There is no pressure on him to provide a timely, as expected/ordered product. If he doesn’t... you have no recourse beyond his word, that you will be addressed and satisfied accordingly. To me that is not a risk his wares have shown to be worth taking.
I don’t think he makes many mistakes but he did with mine.
His opinion of his hides aside, his business model sucks and leaves all the risk with the buyer. For me, that’s a bridge too far. Take 1/2, show me what you did, then take the rest. Or offer a full return policy, no questions asked. Particularly on “stock” sizes/ patterns.
Now if you muck up the pattern or spec something outside stock. That’s your problem and not his.

Yep, truth. With LW, you simply have no choice but to hope for the best. You've zero control over where your money's gone and you have no idea what is it that you're going to end up with - especially if you figured you'll take them on their word of being a full custom maker and had the audacity to suggest a couple of ideas of your own. Provided they weren't shot down immediately. I can't say I don't appreciate "We don't like the look of this so we won't do it" approach as it's, again, very honest but you know...

Another thing I've noticed is that LW customers are super forgiving. There are quite a few stories here and elsewhere about how LW messed up this or that but the jacket arrived so perfect that everyone was willing to overlook any shortcomings. Which is true, I suppose, the jackets are indeed that good, sure, but still, makes me wonder just how forgiving would people be if this was any other maker.

 

[ton312]

Off to refill my glass. Thanks.

Well I was a near volume buyer at one point. It could well be I would have to pay full boat upfront now too. To which I’d politely decline. The reality is that 1/2 covers the makers material cost. The rest is labor and profit. Show me the labor and then get paid, or if I default, keep my half and sell the stock jacket at full retail.
Little different story with Aero and Vanson. Everything was custom. With Vanson I returned a totally custom jacket and was refunded no questions asked.

 

[Hh121]

I find myself too picky to order custom jacket from any maker, eBay and classifies suites me much better.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

That fit is absolutely perfect! Beautiful jacket

 

[ton312]

business must be great, I feel he doesn’t care much about losing his customer.

Yes indeed and it’s interesting to see the surge in appreciation for his stuff. When I bought my first LW his wares had a Luke warm at best reception here but were quite well received on sites like avid rider. I suspect the rider crowd has produced a swell in appreciation for his stuff, which makes sense. That dense HH is great for a bike. Personally I think Vanson gets the ergo better. One final thought. When I was I inquiring about a Ryder in 4oz plus I was told I needed to pay an additional deposit to “secure” the hide. This, inspire of the fact his site advertises the 4oz plus as standard. That sealed the deal for me.

 

[ton312]

Sorry to contribute to thread derail. This is a beautiful LW and demonstrates what Stu does best.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Yes and no. Saying leather used by H&M, Zara etc is shit is an acceptable exaggeration, saying shiniki is shit is beyond exaggeration. He did not say it is grossly overpriced or overrated, he said it is shit, therefore I highly doubt the usefulness of his opinion and reasons. A lot of us have heard this type of "opinion" from another seller in an old but not forgotten thread and many of us do not want a repeat of that.
I owned a LW J-23 and sold it cause it doesn't fit. It is a nice jacket but even if it does fit, I still prefer my RM Buco and the Few of the same style. I have never heard or seen Shinki leather splitting open or torn from wear. I don't know about the protection as I doubt anyone would test that by say falling off a bike. The simple truth is that it is not shit whether one likes it or not.

Actually, I have seen a picture of a Shinki jacket after it's owner fell off of a motorcycle wearing it. Sure, it had some road rash, but there were absolutely no tears or holes in it and it did help protect the rider from getting road rash himself.

I am not saying that Shinki is the best motorcycle leather, but I am saying that I have seen it work in that context much better than a lot of people assume it would.

 

[Hh121]

Yes indeed and it’s interesting to see the surge in appreciation for his stuff. When I bought my first LW his wares had a Luke warm at best reception here but were quite well received on sites like avid rider. I suspect the rider crowd has produced a swell in appreciation for his stuff, which makes sense. That dense HH is great for a bike. Personally I think Vanson gets the ergo better. One final thought. When I was I inquiring about a Ryder in 4oz plus I was told I needed to pay an additional deposit to “secure” the hide. This, inspire of the fact his site advertises the 4oz plus as standard. That sealed the deal for me.

that’s ridiculous , it makes me doubt if he really has his own factory ?? I have a photo of his shop which is very small with only one machinest working on.

 

[Monitor]

that’s ridiculous , it makes me doubt if he really has his own factory ?? I have a photo of his shop which is very small with only one machinest working on.

He has. People from TFL have actually visited the factory but I'm not sure if they're at liberty to discuss the matter. XD

 

[ton312]

that’s ridiculous , it makes me doubt if he really has his own factory ?? I have a photo of his shop which is very small with only one machinest working on.

No clue but I couldn’t get over the fact I had to pay more for something that was advertised as stock. The whole email exchange pissed me off. That was it for me and LW. But let’s be honest, take it with a grain of salt...I’m lusting for a jacket most guys around here would and will laugh at. LOL.

 

[Hh121]

No clue but I couldn’t get over the fact I had to pay more for something that was advertised as stock. The whole email exchange pissed me off. That was it for me and LW. But let’s be honest, take it with a grain of salt...I’m lusting for a jacket most guys around here would and will laugh at. LOL.

I sincerely miss the time where you have annual collaboration with Aero. My passion with Aero fades away after you quit.

 

[Blackadder]

He quickly stated to me that it is overpriced and doesn’t look as good as his HH. A quick blurb totally within the context of our conversation. If I had known this topic would result in such discussion here, I would have probed for details.

Overpriced? Definitely. Veg tanned leather takes longer and therefore costs more than chrome tanned. That goes for all the veg tanned hide like LL's veg tanned cowhide, the "very best" Italian veg tanned hide used by the maker that shall not be named, the Italian veg tanned hide used by Buzz Rickson's etc etc. They are all overpriced because a chrome tanned leather jacket costing less will not be "worse" than a veg tanned jacket as a piece of garment. But why target shiniki? Because of the rave? So some of us have to be the opposition and degrade it for balance sake?
That simple point can be made if say LW offers the shiniki at a USD1000 upcharge like Langlitz does with the HH and LL does with the veg tanned cowfide.

 

[JMax]

Overpriced? Definitely. Veg tanned leather takes longer and therefore costs more than chrome tanned. That goes for all the veg tanned hide like LL's veg tanned cowhide, the "very best" Italian veg tanned hide used by the maker that shall not be named, the Italian veg tanned hide used by Buzz Rickson's etc etc. They are all overpriced because a chrome tanned leather jacket costing less will not be "worse" than a veg tanned jacket as a piece of garment. But why target shiniki? Because of the rave? So some of us have to be the opposition and degrade it for balance sake?
That simple point can be made if say LW offers the shiniki at a USD1000 upcharge like Langlitz does with the HH and LL does with the veg tanned cowfide.

I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to sway my mind or degrade Shinki. With others he may have, with me it was just along the line of “I don’t like Shinki and you get more for your buck with my leather”. That’s what it felt like at the time. It was such a small part of the overall conversation it really didn’t register with me until this thread. He may have done it to justify the nearly $500 bump in price, not including the Crown zip treatment, between my first order and this last one. Who knows. It’s his opinion, we all got’em.

As to his business, in my experience there has been no difference between Vanson and LWs, custom or OTR. You order, talk through tweaks, measurements, etc. and pay in full. Take the fit process away from TB, and it’s the same same too. All have delivered great jackets in a very timely manner. The only mistake came from Vanson when they forgot to put the two-way zip on my vest. I kept it. Great vest. I am understanding, as long as the comm lines are open and I don’t feel as if the maker is effin with me. If comms shut down and I can’t reach them, or they BS me, then I’ll seek jackets elsewhere. Lots of great options.

 

[J Leather Investigater]

I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to sway my mind or degrade Shinki. With others he may have, with me it was just along the line of “I don’t like Shinki and you get more for your buck with my leather”. That’s what it felt like at the time. It was such a small part of the overall conversation it really didn’t register with me until this thread. He may have done it to justify the nearly $500 bump in price, not including the Crown zip treatment, between my first order and this last one. Who knows. It’s his opinion, we all got’em.

As to his business, in my experience there has been no difference between Vanson and LWs, custom or OTR. You order, talk through tweaks, measurements, etc. and pay in full. Take the fit process away from TB, and it’s the same same too. All have delivered great jackets in a very timely manner. The only mistake came from Vanson when they forgot to put the two-way zip on my vest. I kept it. Great vest. I am understanding, as long as the comm lines are open and I don’t feel as if the maker is effin with me. If comms shut down and I can’t reach them, or they BS me, then I’ll seek jackets elsewhere. Lots of great options.

In my experience in conversation with stuart about shinki is that his leather is equipment, functional, for outdoors, protection. Shinki is a fashion leather. Im sold on lost worlds jackets its no secret, i work in them, they take a beating, and bad weather. I also like shinki and have a beautiful jacket made of it. It has its place going out to dinner or leisure ect.

 

[Kris B]

I’m loving this jacket. I’ve been wearing it everyday and sleeping in it to break it in.