My new LW J23 arrrived!

[JMax]

No. Stuart thinks Shinki sucks. He has mentioned it to me in much more diplomatic terms. I believe HH is quoting Stuart. I disagree with Stuart on this, but it is his opinion.

 

[Hh121]

I assumed it was Hh's juvenile expression of his ad hominem opinion, incorrectly stated as a quote, and intended to incite those who favor Shinki. Therefore, I declined to take the bait.

No, it's exactly from him on my phone conversation with him at 2017. Not everything is a bait.

 

[Superfluous]

No. Stuart thinks Shinki sucks. He has mentioned it to me in much more diplomatic terms. I believe HH is quoting Stuart. I disagree with Stuart on this, but it is his opinion.

Thanks for the clarification.

IMHO, Stuart's derogatory rhetoric -- advanced for the ulterior purpose of selling his competing jackets -- should not be repeated on TFL. Stating "Shinki is trash" serves no purpose other than to incite acrimony. TFL is better than that.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I think Stuart approaches the what leather is quality question from a longevity point. Shinki is beautiful but will a jacket made from it still look in good shape five years down the road if it's actually worn more frequently than any of us wears their jackets? I'm not so sure about that one..

edit: atleast it's going to be much closer to being worn out than a LW.

 

[Superfluous]

No, it's exactly from him on my phone conversation with him at 2017. Not everything is a bait.

Why repeat it here on TFL? What purpose does that serve? As I stated in response to JMAX's post, before I saw your post, we should not be repeating Stuart's ad hominem rhetoric advanced for the ulterior purpose of selling his competing jackets. IMHO, its counterproductive.

Separately, you did not attribute the quote to anyone in your original post. In the absence of attribution, the words appear to be your own.

 

[Superfluous]

I think Stuart approaches the what leather is quality question from a longevity point. Shinki is beautiful but will a jacket made from it still look in good shape five years down the road if it's actually worn more frequently than any of us wears their jackets? I'm not so sure about that one..

edit: atleast it's going to be much closer to being worn out than a LW.

Thank you for a perfect illustration of my point. You stated an opinion regarding Shinki leather without resort to counterproductive ad hominem references. That is exactly the type of discourse we should be having on TFL.

Separately, I agree that a particularly thick/heavy, indestructible leather should last longer than a more pliable mid-weight leather. On the other hand, I think Shinki leather has a much longer lifespan than five years. The leathers used by must manufacturers from the 1950s-70s were lighter than Shinki, and held up quite well over time. That said, if you are seeking maximum durability, protection, and/or longevity. Shinki is not the best choice, and LW is a much better option.

 

[Hh121]

Why repeat it here on TFL? What purpose does that serve? As I stated in response to JMAX's post, before I saw your post, we should not be repeating Stuart's ad hominem rhetoric advanced for the ulterior purpose of selling his competing jackets. IMHO, its counterproductive.

Separately, you did not attribute the quote to anyone in your original post. In the absence of attribution, the words appear to be your own.

not everything they do or they did has its purpose or meaning, apparently I am not eloquent like you, at least on internet.

 

[Monitor]

Just my 2 cents but I don't see the problem in quoting Stuart's opinion on Shinki on TFL, to be honest. Any way you look at it, it's still an insight from someone who's in the business and someone who is actually tremendously good at what they do.

@JMax , @Hh121 - Did he clarify more on the matter?? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm sure he means the same about my beloved CXL or I dunno, whatever else but I take no offence at it and I believe I understand where he's coming from by calling it trash - but - I would however absolutely love to hear his reasons as to why he doesn't think highly of Shinki.
I'm here to learn and learning more about what the professionals have to say only means I'll have more knowledge to make the call myself.

If it's just durability then yeah, it's a shitty thing to say. Shinki jackets look beautiful & badass because of the fades, the tea-core and all that stuff. LW's HH won't ever look like that and if that's what you're after, I guess it's safe to say LW's HH sucks too.

 

[Superfluous]

apparently I am not eloquent like you, at least on internet.

I might be a keyboard poet at times, but I am consistently an illiterate buffoon in person.

Cheers, and Happy Easter to you and your family.

 

[Hh121]

Just my 2 cents but I don't see the problem in quoting Stuart's opinion on Shinki on TFL, to be honest. Any way you look at it, it's still an insight from someone who's in the business and someone who is actually tremendously good at what they do.

@JMax , @Hh121 - Did he clarify more on the matter?? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm sure he means the same about my beloved CXL or I dunno, whatever else but I take no offence at it and I believe I understand where he's coming from by calling it trash - but - I would however absolutely love to hear his reasons as to why he doesn't think highly of Shinki.
I'm here to learn and learning more about what the professionals have to say only means I'll have more knowledge to make the call myself.

If it's just durability then yeah, it's a shitty thing to say. Shinki jackets look beautiful & badass because of the fades, the tea-core and all that stuff. LW's HH won't ever look like that and if that's what you're after, I guess it's safe to say LW's HH sucks too.

The context of that conversation started from I expressed how much I like the heavy hide and he said that he very often have many people asking him if he can make them a lighter hide which annoying him a bit, then he said he aware the popularity of Japanese leather called shinki which he said is the xx, that's the only comment he gave.

 

[Hh121]

Just my 2 cents but I don't see the problem in quoting Stuart's opinion on Shinki on TFL, to be honest. Any way you look at it, it's still an insight from someone who's in the business and someone who is actually tremendously good at what they do.

@JMax , @Hh121 - Did he clarify more on the matter?? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm sure he means the same about my beloved CXL or I dunno, whatever else but I take no offence at it and I believe I understand where he's coming from by calling it trash - but - I would however absolutely love to hear his reasons as to why he doesn't think highly of Shinki.
I'm here to learn and learning more about what the professionals have to say only means I'll have more knowledge to make the call myself.

If it's just durability then yeah, it's a shitty thing to say. Shinki jackets look beautiful & badass because of the fades, the tea-core and all that stuff. LW's HH won't ever look like that and if that's what you're after, I guess it's safe to say LW's HH sucks too.

About chromexcel hide, he used to has a comment in either Test or Suburban page, I remembered very clearly that he hint cxl as "infuse oil to gain the weight", he removed this phrase long time ago.

 

[Superfluous]

The context of that conversation started from I expressed how much I like the heavy hide and he said that he very often have many people asking him if he can make them a lighter hide which annoying him a bit, then he said he aware the popularity of Japanese leather called shinki which he said is the xx, that's the only comment he gave.

I am one of those who annoyed Stuart with such a request. I would love to own a LW jacket, but I prefer mid-weight leathers (particularly because of my climate). I thought his deerskin might be the answer, but even that is rather heavy. Some have opined that Stuart's lightest offering is not dissimilar to a mid-weight leather, but my experience suggests otherwise. I will be banging down Stuart's door if he ever offers a true mid-weight leather. That said, I am not holding my breath.

 

[zebedee]

I would imagine that Stuart's list in response to questions about leather such as: 'What is acceptable?' and 'What is good?' would be quite short but probably memorable. His answer to enquiries as to the impact of James Charles on the skincare world would be a lot longer and eminently quotable.

 

[JMax]

@Hh121 He actually talked me into a lighter leather for the cutlass. I don't know for sure, but I bet his views on weight are jacket specific.

@Monitor i didn’t ask him. He was explaining how he was examining and sort of reverse engineering a Centinela until he was able to get his hands on an original Leathertogs. I was engrossed in that and just assumed the obvious, that he prefers what his leather brings to the table versus what Shinki provides (traits already mentioned in the last few posts). I should have asked.

 

[Hh121]

I

I am one of those who annoyed Stuart with such a request. I would love to own a LW jacket, but I prefer mid-weight leathers (particularly because of my climate). I thought his deerskin might be the answer, but even that is rather heavy. Some have opined that Stuart's lightest offering is not dissimilar to a mid-weight leather, but my experience suggests otherwise. I will be banging down Stuart's door if he ever offers a true mid-weight leather. That said, I am not holding my breath.

if you only wants a LIGHT WEIGHT jacket, LW produced many jackets around four to five lbs. But they still feel “heavy” compare with other brand, because the hide is so dense and rigid, I don’t think you will like it .

 

[Blackadder]

Just my 2 cents but I don't see the problem in quoting Stuart's opinion on Shinki on TFL, to be honest. Any way you look at it, it's still an insight from someone who's in the business and someone who is actually tremendously good at what they do.

@JMax , @Hh121 - Did he clarify more on the matter?? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm sure he means the same about my beloved CXL or I dunno, whatever else but I take no offence at it and I believe I understand where he's coming from by calling it trash - but - I would however absolutely love to hear his reasons as to why he doesn't think highly of Shinki.
I'm here to learn and learning more about what the professionals have to say only means I'll have more knowledge to make the call myself.

If it's just durability then yeah, it's a shitty thing to say. Shinki jackets look beautiful & badass because of the fades, the tea-core and all that stuff. LW's HH won't ever look like that and if that's what you're after, I guess it's safe to say LW's HH sucks too.

Yes and no. Saying leather used by H&M, Zara etc is shit is an acceptable exaggeration, saying shiniki is shit is beyond exaggeration. He did not say it is grossly overpriced or overrated, he said it is xx, therefore I highly doubt the usefulness of his opinion and reasons. A lot of us have heard this type of "opinion" from another seller in an old but not forgotten thread and many of us do not want a repeat of that.
I owned a LW J-23 and sold it cause it doesn't fit. It is a nice jacket but even if it does fit, I still prefer my RM Buco and the Few of the same style. I have never heard or seen Shinki leather splitting open or torn from wear. I don't know about the protection as I doubt anyone would test that by say falling off a bike. The simple truth is that it is not xx whether one likes it or not.

 

[ton312]

My gripe with Stu is his payment model. All up front. There is no pressure on him to provide a timely, as expected/ordered product. If he doesn’t... you have no recourse beyond his word, that you will be addressed and satisfied accordingly. To me that is not a risk his wares have shown to be worth taking.
I don’t think he makes many mistakes but he did with mine.
His opinion of his hides aside, his business model sucks and leaves all the risk with the buyer. For me, that’s a bridge too far. Take 1/2, show me what you did, then take the rest. Or offer a full return policy, no questions asked. Particularly on “stock” sizes/ patterns.
Now if you muck up the pattern or spec something outside stock. That’s your problem and not his.

 

[JMax]

My gripe with Stu is his payment model. All up front. There is no pressure on him to provide a timely, as expected/ordered product. If he doesn’t... you have no recourse beyond his word, that you will be addressed and satisfied accordingly. To me that is not a risk his wares have shown to be worth taking.
I don’t think he makes many mistakes but he did with mine.
His opinion of his hides aside, his business model sucks and leaves all the risk with the buyer. For me, that’s a bridge too far. Take 1/2, show me what you did, then take the rest. Or offer a full return policy, no questions asked. Particularly on “stock” sizes/ patterns.
Now if you muck up the pattern or spec something outside stock. That’s your problem and not his.

Who does half up front and the rest after delivery? Serious question. I’ve only bought new from LW, Vanson (and collaboration partners), and TB for the Aero. I paid in full at time of order with all. If you tell me I’ve been doing it wrong, I am going to refill my glass with more Suntory whiskey and call it a day.

 

[Hh121]

My gripe with Stu is his payment model. All up front. There is no pressure on him to provide a timely, as expected/ordered product. If he doesn’t... you have no recourse beyond his word, that you will be addressed and satisfied accordingly. To me that is not a risk his wares have shown to be worth taking.
I don’t think he makes many mistakes but he did with mine.
His opinion of his hides aside, his business model sucks and leaves all the risk with the buyer. For me, that’s a bridge too far. Take 1/2, show me what you did, then take the rest. Or offer a full return policy, no questions asked. Particularly on “stock” sizes/ patterns.
Now if you muck up the pattern or spec something outside stock. That’s your problem and not his.

business must be great, I feel he doesn’t care much about losing his customer.

 

[zebedee]

Yes and no. Saying leather used by H&M, Zara etc is shit is an acceptable exaggeration, saying shiniki is shit is beyond exaggeration. He did not say it is grossly overpriced or overrated, he said it is shit, therefore I highly doubt the usefulness of his opinion and reasons. A lot of us have heard this type of "opinion" from another seller in an old but not forgotten thread and many of us do not want a repeat of that.
I owned a LW J-23 and sold it cause it doesn't fit. It is a nice jacket but even if it does fit, I still prefer my RM Buco and the Few of the same style. I have never heard or seen Shinki leather splitting open or torn from wear. I don't know about the protection as I doubt anyone would test that by say falling off a bike. The simple truth is that it is not shit whether one likes it or not.

I'm curious as to why he'd say this (or at least how a person would say this without revealing the obvious vulnerability or insecurity). Is it the shininess he doesn't like, or the makers who use it, or the way it's tanned? Or is it a long-buried, media-sublimated Pearl Harbour trauma?