My Himel Experience (v2)

[58panheadfan]

This was the part in the original thread that bothered me too. I didn't realize he was making a second jacket for Jeo at the time so I had found the wording odd without understanding that bit of context. But as you said how was it simultaneously unavoidable and something that could be remedied in the future? I am really glad the second jacket came out great and overall Jeo still enjoys the first one as well.

This is all very helpful information for anyone interested going forward, thank you for sharing. And I say this is as someone who will most likely order a chevalier in the near future and Im thankful for Carlos and Jeo sharing their experiences. The customer service response does give me pause, I admit.

A lot of this reminds me of conversations I have with my tailor in regard to the rise of IG and social media. There's often a great deal of discussion online about how much hand stitching one maker has versus another and if one does more than another they are therefore superior almost like it's a math equation. But ultimately it's the overall experience and for me specifically, the fit and how I feel wearing the suit. I would be more inclined to look past a few bad stitches for a near perfect fit as that in my opinion is the hardest thing to replicate/achieve from any maker or OTR. So when I find someone who can do that I'm hooked. This isn't to excuse the stitching on Jeo's jacket or the response he received as my tailor would never let a suit with obvious flaws in top stitching out the door and I believe it's easier to hide other mistakes in cloth just another aspect to think about. When a bespoke product fits there's nothing better and when it doesn't it's a disaster which is why expectations for customer service are so important in the initial leap of faith.

I've followed Himel for a long time across social media and I enjoy his newer youtube videos. What I have always admired are his designs and how great the jackets look on all of his customers in all shapes and sizes. Carlos' Chevalier is one of the better fitting jackets I've seen. I have a couple of second hand Himel jackets and I quite like them(I've never heavily examined the stitching but I've also not noticed anything in daily use) but as I mentioned above, fit is my ultimate goal and I'll need to go custom. There are many flaws on Jeo's original jacket I would be willing to look past for a perfect fit but I completely understand someone who wouldn't and there are a couple I would not be ok with. I have OTR leather jackets from high end Japanese repro companies and the stitching is flawless but the fit leaves a lot to be desired and the price point is similar, I'd prefer both the perfect stitching and the fit but if I had to choose I'd go fit every time. But I have to believe in the customer service and I am very appreciative of these threads that I am more informed in the decision I would be making.

Excellent post! I can say that those who gossip viciously about a few crooked seams often present themselves in poorly fitting clothes on the social media platforms.

 

[red devil]

To keep the thread balanced, it would seem that with Himel you get:

- A great fit, his strongest point
- Good "ingredients", as in good leather and hardware
- A range of construction from badly put together to a good level. Nothing at the level of top makers
- Brand recognition or what he calls his "tribe"
- The customer service highlighted in this thread

Does that sound fair?

 

[Brandrea33]

To be fair ... Jeo wasn’t happy with the response he got from Himel so why not mention that to Himel right there and then? Confront the issue with the vendor ...

I realize I must sound like an apologist for Himel Bros leather, but I believe in all honesty, there was a lack of communication all around.

 

[handymike]

I agree with you on that front, but we don’t know how the conversation went and what impression David had after discussing the first jacket with Jeo.

I’d bet dollars to donuts, David thought everything was resolved, as Jeo ordered the next jacket.

I was referring to the current situation. Once in a blue moon we read a long post from him or his staff, but the real customer service should be done directly and quietly IMO.
Both @Carlos840 and @jeo received sub-par jackets, yet @Carlos840 was publicly offered a re-make. Both have stated they don’t want a re-make, but that doesn’t really excuse the maker from the situation. The public offer is really a half-ass maneuver. The follow-up question should be “what can I do to make things right?”
Action over words.

 

[jeo]

To be fair ... Jeo wasn’t happy with the response he got from Himel so why not mention that to Himel right there and then? Confront the issue with the vendor...

And what, start an argument with him? Try and tell him that his machinist is wrong?

You don't seem to get it man...so I'll repeat this for the 10th time...if I wanted a remake, I would have addressed the fact that I was unhappy with his response and said it was BS. Maybe then he would have owned up...? I don't know. But that's not what I was after.

There was also the issue that if I would started yelling and demanding that it could have jeopardized my Imperial. Maybe that wouldn't have been the case but that's what I was thinking.

 

[jeo]

I agree with you on that front, but we don’t know how the conversation went and what impression David had after discussing the first jacket with Jeo.

I’d bet dollars to donuts, David thought everything was resolved, as Jeo ordered the next jacket.

I didn't email him back until he asked for info on the next jacket, so yes, as far as he was concerned he thought it was resolved after he gave me the responses that he did.

I know you recently bought your Imperial and you're trying to defend Dave here. I get it. I was always one of the people that said that Himel jackets are worth it. There have many threads in the past about that subject. I still think that they are.

My post isn't to denigrate Dave and his work. However, my Frobisher did leave his workshop and he did give me the response he did.

As you can read in my OP, in his response he apologized and said it won't happen again. I took that in good faith. Then I met him and he reassured me again it won't happen again and it didn't. I give him all the credit in the world for that.

To balance this thread out I am going to post the stitching in my Imperial. It is WAY better than my Frobisher.

 

[Brandrea33]

I was referring to the current situation. Once in a blue moon we read a long post from him or his staff, but the real customer service should be done directly and quietly IMO. Both @Carlos840 and @jeo received sub-par jackets, yet @Carlos840 was publicly offered a re-make. Both have stated they don’t want a re-make. That doesn’t really excuse the maker from the situation. The public offer is really a half-ass maneuver. Action over words.

I entirely agree that things should have been handled one on one, and at the time.

I believe David made an attempt in both cases:

With Carlos he offered a detailed post with an offer for a remake. This as I recall years after the build. Carlos doesn’t wish for that due to the shipping cost associated , fair enough. I don’t mean to put words in your mouth @Carlos.

Jeo also doesn’t want a remake but had hoped for a different response from David. Again I don’t wish to put words in your mouth @jeo. In this case, the two talk recently after the first build, David provides an explanation (unsatisfactory to this forum) and to Jeo, but there appears to be no follow up. My belief in this case, is that David would be disappointed to read of Jeo’s post here as he would’ve thought the explanation given at the time was sufficient as evidenced by a new order. Jeo, also states he loves his jacket FWIW.

Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me.

 

[Brandrea33]

I didn't email him back until he asked for info on the next jacket, so yes, as far as he was concerned he thought it was resolved after he gave me the responses that he did.

I know you recently bought your Imperial and you're trying to defend Dave here. I get it. I was always one of the people that said that Himel jackets are worth it. There have many threads in the past about that subject. I still think that they are.

My post isn't to denigrate Dave and his work. However, my Frobisher did leave his workshop and he did give me the response he did.

As you can read in my OP, in his response he apologized and said it won't happen again. I took that in good faith. Then I met him and he reassured me again it won't happen again and it didn't. I give him all the credit in the world for that.

To balance this thread out I am going to post the stitching in my Imperial. It is WAY better than my Frobisher.

Yes, I think I stated that earlier ... I’ve become Himel Bros apologist

I also agree your jacket is a problem child that should have been dealt with at the time. Clearer communication on both ends may have saved the day.

I look forward to your Imperial post

 

[Imuricecreamman]

"Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me."

There isn't any need for any further action or response from Himel in either Carlos or Jeo's case. These two cases have been put forward on their own behalf from two respected members of this forum with pictoral evidence for us to discuss and both members seem content with leaving the situation as it is.
This is relevant info for people who want to order from Himel (If you are picky on stitch quality? Bring it up when you order, etc.)

Any further public responses would only be catering to the rest of us and of no relevance to these two threads.

 

[Carlos840]

Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me.

I will repeat myself.
I was offered a remake, but i had to pay for all import taxes and return shipping.

Why would i be expected to sink another 500$-800$ to get a well stitched jacket when i already paid 2700$ for what was supposed to be a well stitched jacket?

Let say you buy a brand new car, spend 10000$ on it.
You go to the dealer to pick up your new car and it has a bunch of scratches on the door, the dealer tells you "sorry, we told you we had the best paint jobs, this one isn't, but all you have to do it you really want the best paint job is spend an extra 2000$ and you'll get a new car with the best paint job ever"

Would you go around telling everybody that your dealer is amazing, that you had a problem with your new car but that they where really generous and sorted it out for you? Or would you feel like the dealer is taking you for a fool?

Same thing.

IMO if Himel says my jacket has "major issues" he should want that jacket back into his workshop at all cost so no one else ever has to see it or deal with it.
If i had been the person stitching that jacket i would have stopped and told my boss "sorry i screwed up, this jacket has to be remade"
If i had been the QC guy, i would have stopped it before it left the shop.
If i was Dave and i saw the pics @jeo and I posted i would have sent us both prepaid return labels, remade these jackets and sent them back with all taxes and duty paid.

As a maker all you have is your name and what it stands for.
Standing behind your product should be no1, we have established it isn't the case with Himel.

 

[Brandrea33]

I will repeat myself.
I was offered a remake, but i had to pay for all import taxes and return shipping.

Why would i be expected to sink another 500$-800$ to get a well stitched jacket when i already paid 2700$ for what was supposed to be a well stitched jacket?

Let say you buy a brand new car, spend 10000$ on it.
You go to the dealer to pick up your new car and it has a bunch of scratches on the door, the dealer tells you "sorry, we told you we had the best paint jobs, this one isn't, but all you have to do it you really want the best paint job is spend an extra 2000$ and you'll get a new car with the best paint job ever"

Would you go around telling everybody that your dealer is amazing, that you had a problem with your new car but that they where really generous and sorted it out for you? Or would you feel like the dealer is taking you for a fool?

Same thing.

IMO if Himel says my jacket has "major issues" he should want that jacket back into his workshop at all cost so no one else ever has to see it or deal with it.
If i had been the person stitching that jacket i would have stopped and told my boss "sorry i screwed up, this jacket has to be remade"
If i had been the QC guy, i would have stopped it before it left the shop.
If i was Dave and i saw the pics @jeo and I posted i would have sent us both prepaid return labels, remade these jackets and sent them back with all taxes and duty paid.

As a maker all you have is your name and what it stands for.
Standing behind your product should be no1, we have established it isn't the case with Himel.

yep, I’m perfectly clear on that Carlos, I believe I said “fair enough”.

 

[Brandrea33]

And what, start an argument with him? Try and tell him that his machinist is wrong?

You don't seem to get it man...so I'll repeat this for the 10th time...if I wanted a remake, I would have addressed the fact that I was unhappy with his response and said it was BS. Maybe then he would have owned up...? I don't know. But that's not what I was after.

There was also the issue that if I would started yelling and demanding that it could have jeopardized my Imperial. Maybe that wouldn't have been the case but that's what I was thinking.

I do get where you’re coming from Jeo, I just would’ve handled it differently. Different strokes as they say.

 

[red devil]

I do get where you’re coming from Jeo, I just would’ve handled it differently. Different strokes as they say.

I am sorry, but you can not reproach @jeo 's action. He was very retrained and thoughtful in everything, from his order, to his communication, to the way he started this thread and answered questions.

Whether your way would have been better is anyone's guess

My belief in this case, is that David would be disappointed to read of Jeo’s post here as he would’ve thought the explanation given at the time was sufficient as evidenced by a new order.

You think it is ok for him to make excuses for such a sub par product and leave it as it is, most of us believe that it is not the case. Does that translate your feelings well?

 

[dannyk]

"Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me."

How can things be "perfectly clear" and "escape you" at the same time...

The actions required to satisfy this forum are pretty clear, make new jackets that don't suffer from "serious issues" without asking us to spend more money on said jackets.

It’s the little things. Schott is not in the same ball game as Himel. Totally different approaches and looks. No doubt about that. Also Schott is a huge international dealer that can more easily absorb losses. Again I’ll make that clear. They have much more “wiggle” room. But on the other hand they don’t have anything that costs 2,700 or even 2,000. Their prices have certainly gone up with the market but I’ve never seen them have anything approaching that cost. They suffer from hyperbole too. We all know the stories of their history and to put it politely it’s “cloudy” that is. But then they also don’t say they are the best, most intricate, etc..either.
With all that out of the damn way; my actual point is this: I bought a book from them and it came damaged. Don’t know if it got past their QC or damaged in-transit. It was dented in a way it could have happened at any point. I emailed them and they sent me a new one at no charge, and let me keep the damaged one. People may remember a thread I had a few months ago about stars. I had 3 jackets. A schott, a mall no name, and a vanson I wanted to put stars on. I emailed Schott and told them only one was a Schott. They sent me stars at no charge and the person I was
Emailing even made suggestions about which color star would go best with what. I gave the jackets to my friend over at Parkhurst boots-which everyone go check out his stuff. They are local to me Buffal based and the owner Andy is just the nicest guy ever. His stuff is based off work and service boot silhouettes but made and designed to be dress boots. You can get horsehides, horween, CF stead, all the major names on dainite soles for 350 or less, made in America. He also does customs. They do sometimes have QC issues but Andy stands by his product and gives replacements or refunds all the time. {EDIT: that sentence came out wrong makes it sound like they always have QC issues and he’s just giving away boots. I meant just like any boot company they can have QC issues and when they do he finds a solution every time.}
He works with leather everyday I figured he’d be best to place the stars. He broke one. I emailed Schott they sent a second batch of every color star they offer, once again free or charge.
No one here wants free things. No one here simply wants to bitch. No one here is saying Himel doesn’t have killer designs and most of their products are artisanal beauties. What they want is the guy to stand by his product that should have customer service that’s premium to match their premium costs.

 

[Carlos840]

yep, I’m perfectly clear on that Carlos, I believe I said “fair enough”.

"Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me."

How can things be "perfectly clear" and "escape you" at the same time...

The actions required to satisfy this forum are pretty clear, make new jackets that don't suffer from "serious issues" without asking us to spend more money on said jackets.

 

[dwilson]

It seems a bit unfair to expect the consumer of a $2500+ leather jacket to also be ontop of QC and hounding the owners when there is a problem and presenting solutions. When you're on the top end of absolute luxury goods more is expected. The jacket should have failed QC outright and if the consumer of this incredibally expensive good actively sought you out to complain solutions should be presented and not excuses.

 

[dannyk]

"Hopefully Parker and David can chime in here, but in the meantime, the action required from Himel Bros required to satisfy this forum escapes me."

How can things be "perfectly clear" and "escape you" at the same time...

The actions required to satisfy this forum are pretty clear, make new jackets that don't suffer from "serious issues" without asking us to spend more money on said jackets.

Also Carlos sorry I meant to just post not directly reply to you. Since what I posted was just agreeing with you and expanding on your thought. Instead it sounds like I’m arguing with you. So sorry haha.

 

[Brandrea33]

I am sorry, but you can not reproach @jeo 's action. He was very retrained and thoughtful in everything, from his order, to his communication, to the way he started this thread and answered questions.

Whether your way would have been better is anyone's guess



You think it is ok for him to make excuses for such a sub par product and leave it as it is, most of us believe that it is not the case. Does that translate your feelings well?

Oh my goodness, my apologies if I said anything inappropriate To @jeo. Definitely not my intent.

1. I did not suggest or say my way was better, I clearly said differently.

2. I do not think David offered up excuses, but rather an explanation, and there is a difference. I freely admit to not knowing a bloody thing about the ins and outs of working with leather, but yes if I weren’t happy with the “excuse” I’d have addressed it with him directly. I understand if Jeo wasn’t comfortable doing that, and that’s OK.

The bottom line is that Jeo is happy with the jacket but disappointed with the response from David is what I take from all of this.

 

[red devil]

Oh my goodness, my apologies if I said anything inappropriate To @jeo. Definitely not my intent.

1. I did not suggest or say my way was better, I clearly said differently.

2. I do not think David offered up excuses, but rather an explanation, and there is a difference. I freely admit to not knowing a bloody thing about the ins and outs of working with leather, but yes if I weren’t happy with the “excuse” I’d have addressed it with him directly. I understand if Jeo wasn’t comfortable doing that, and that’s OK.

The bottom line is that Jeo is happy with the jacket but disappointed with the response from David is what I take from all of this.

The main point is more the fact that Himel failed to stand behind his product.

I would suggest you read this post:

It seems a bit unfair to expect the consumer of a $2500+ leather jacket to also be ontop of QC and hounding the owners when there is a problem and presenting solutions. When you're on the top end of absolute luxury goods more is expected. The jacket should have failed QC outright and if the consumer of this incredibally expensive good actively sought you out to complain solutions should be presented and not excuses.

Agreed

 

[Brandrea33]

@Carlos I think I’ve been blocked and that’s ok. I like your post.

I agree a reply from Himel would be great here, but at this point I’m not so certain that will happen. Even if it does, what can he say now that will satisfy everyone.

The experiences of a few sometimes can out weigh the experiences of many and I do not dispute your frame of reference or that of Jeo. It’s your point of view and I can respect that. Please respect mine as being different (no right or wrong).

It’s good that we all have a different view.