Moving to the 40s

[Edward]

As see, that's where the late 1940s into the 1950s comes in. A lot of our modern luxuries began in the early 1950s. Dishwashers and air conditioning started to become upscale, then common. That's a fun time to live in (and you can still use your Sheaffer too!)

Ha, true.... though I like getting served in pubs here in London... I suspect though that's why these periods (and later) tend to be more popular for folks building a full on lifestyle around them, as distinct from earlier eras like Georgian or Victorian. You can work most moern things back into it (several revivials in style trends also help - e.g. the eighties bringing the fifties back round), stuff is available, you can go to the office dressed like don Draper and it's fine.... show up dressed as Oscar Wilde or Abe Lincoln, however, and it's straight off to the looney bin...

You know you're doing it right when people stop looking at you funny, and just realize it's who you are. I'm into the vintage scene around here, but often it's more of a 50s/60s scene. When I fly, I dress totally 40s and I can assure you, people assume I'm a pilot.

Have you noticed a significant improvement in customer service also? It's amazing how much of a difference it can make.

 

[MrCairo]

I too seem to (over-) romanticize past eras (and it depends on my mood whether that be the 60s/50s, 40s or 20s). However, I do have to concede our current era is unique in this sense that all of us can, at any point, choose in which era we'd like to live. Having both plenty of vintage options available to us as well as the luxury of access to modern tools, I think this period is unmatched, and one could truly get the best of both worlds.

Of course there are drawbacks today: old-school barbers are increasingly hard to find (but one can adopt old-school wet shaving oneself, as I'm sure many on this forum already do). The same goes for tailors (at least here in the Netherlands where I live). Plus, if you're a student-going-on-young professional (like myself) you can't afford to have everything tailor made from scratch. Luckily, natural fabrics (wool, cotton, silk, linen) are making a huge comeback in pret-a-porter clothing at reasonable prices, which you can then have cut to fit (I, for one, am very happy with Suitsupply, of which we have many stores here in Holland).

Also, as has been mentioned, you'll likely be one of the few (if not the only one) in your area who dresses up in a certain way, so the "real" 40s/50s feel won't be there since everyone wears track suits outside. Having said that, I have seen a small but sure improvement here as well. Wearing a fedora however will still get you looks in this part of the world. But then I suppose you'll just have to be a dandy and take it as a compliment.

 

[tommyK]

I think my affinity for bygone eras is a reaction to the mindset we see prevalent these days which is "CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE"! "Change" or "Progress" just for the sake of doing something is the only virtue we (the broader collective "We" not fellow Loungers) aspire to. Some things need to change of course, but we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. What we could use these days is the wisdom to know the difference.

The Safety Razor is a good example. How many blades are in the common modern razor now? 4, 5, 6? Does it give you a better shave? Not for me and not for most who try a safety razor. In fact for many it's better as it seems to lesson or alleviate razor bumps caused by multiple blades.

 

[CaramelSmoothie]

I could give up air conditioning as long as I lived in a house that had a basement. Fibber, you fit right in around these parts. I personally like living in the now even with all its problems. Although I do sometimes wonder who my circle of friends would be if I were living in the 20s, 30s and 40s. I would imagine that I would be working a 9 to 5 and then dressing up in my hats and gloves and going out with my girlfriends to clubs and bars in the U Street corridor here in DC to see the likes of Duke Ellington, Pearl Bailey and other singers and entertainers when it was the place to be.

 

[Fibber Mcgee]

It's ironic to be using the Internet to get in touch with the past. Without this place and sites like eBay it would be so much harder to experience the past. I'm not one for reincarnation but it seems odd how I can hear a big band song and recognize it so fast or how I can see WWII footage and feel a connection somehow. I'm just greatful I have found a period that brings me enjoyment and relief from the rat race of today.

 

[Shangas]

We all look at the past through rose-tinted glasses (or in some cases, beer-goggles), but there are some very good reasons for wanting to revive some of the qualities, attitudes or other aspects of the past.

For me, the BIG ONE is quality.

I don't care what you say. I don't care who or what you quote or give as an example.

In the 21st Century. We do not have quality anymore. It doesn't exist.

"But wait. What about those luxury brands? They have quality".

Indeed they do.

But what about that stuff you buy and use every day? Does that have quality? Is that going to last? Or is it going to break after 18 months?

That isn't quality.

And in times gone by, items like that would never have been sold, because it would've been bad for business.

Now, it's GOOD for business. And the world is being duped into buying cheap, useless crap.

This is why I prefer antiques. They last forever. And given care, respect and attention, they will last for yet another forever. Certainly as long as any of us is likely to be around. And quality of manufacture back in the old days was so much better than it is now. That's why I love the past.

 

[Seraph1227]

i find it to be a more elegant time. the optimal fantasy for me...A front table in Cafe Society listening to Billie Holiday wail... yep, that would be ideal.

 

[1930artdeco]

I am curious about something. Who is the first generation to 'live in the past' and by that I mean heavily use things that were used by the previous generation or two? I know my dad started driving Model A's in high school back in 62 because they were cheap to get and maintain. But he also learned from the generation that grew up with the Model T and A.
Would that be classed as living in the past? ME I was listening to classical and 60's music since day one over current music. Now, we have people that enjoy living in the style of the 20,30,40's or which ever decade you like.

For me at least, there is a sense of connection to the past. I prefer the 30/40's and when I go to places where that is the predominant theme I feel more at home than I do in the modern times. Of course I have also been described as an old soul, so that may have something to do with it. But in any case, did people from the early part of the 20th century wish they lived in the 19th century? I know there was no internet back then so these people would have been in little groups and probably not to connected. Just curious.


Mike

 

[LizzieMaine]

I am curious about something. Who is the first generation to 'live in the past' and by that I mean heavily use things that were used by the previous generation or two? I know my dad started driving Model A's in high school back in 62 because they were cheap to get and maintain. But he also learned from the generation that grew up with the Model T and A.

There were plenty of farm families in the twenties and thirties whose way of life differed little from that of the 1870s. And the average working-class home during those same years would be just as likely to have hand-me-down or second-hand furniture dating back to the Cleveland administration as something new or recent. It wasn't a "lifestyle choice," it was simply common-sense frugality.

 

[Edward]

There were plenty of farm families in the twenties and thirties whose way of life differed little from that of the 1870s. And the average working-class home during those same years would be just as likely to have hand-me-down or second-hand furniture dating back to the Cleveland administration as something new or recent. It wasn't a "lifestyle choice," it was simply common-sense frugality.

Mn. It's probably a fairly recent development that some of us have had the luxury of actively choosing old over new.

 

[Fading Fast]

Mn. It's probably a fairly recent development that some of us have had the luxury of actively choosing old over new.

My father's mother lived in a tenement that had furniture that had to go back to the 1800s (I realize now looking back) and that was in the 1960s / 70s. I feel like I'm the last of the generation that at least saw the world that existed before many middle class people became constant consumers (and there was none of that in the house I grew up in). But many of my friend's families in the 60s/70s were already part of the consumer culture as you'd go over to their house and new things were popping up all the time.

My house was a time capsule as very, very little changed. But I see today that my girlfriend's nephews couldn't / wouldn't even understand that there was a time when you didn't get new clothes, electronics, TVs, cars, etc. all the time (and their dad is a policeman and their Mom is a teacher - i.e., not internet entrepreneurs - they just seem to always buy new stuff and have been for the almost two decades I've known them). They have no perspective on how different their life is than life was for most throughout all of history. They aren't spoiled by today's standards (reasonably polite, do their homework, aren't in trouble at school, etc.), but they don't know / can't really appreciate how much they have.

 

[GHT]

Have you noticed a significant improvement in customer service also? It's amazing how much of a difference it can make.

Oh yes. Last Saturday, a young lady serving me from behind the bar, told me that she found it refreshing to see someone so smartly dressed.
I told her that it was refreshing to be served by someone who didn't call me love, or give me wet change. We both had a chuckle.

 

[sheeplady]

We all look at the past through rose-tinted glasses (or in some cases, beer-goggles), but there are some very good reasons for wanting to revive some of the qualities, attitudes or other aspects of the past.

For me, the BIG ONE is quality.

I don't care what you say. I don't care who or what you quote or give as an example.

In the 21st Century. We do not have quality anymore. It doesn't exist.

"But wait. What about those luxury brands? They have quality".

Indeed they do.

But what about that stuff you buy and use every day? Does that have quality? Is that going to last? Or is it going to break after 18 months?

That isn't quality.

And in times gone by, items like that would never have been sold, because it would've been bad for business.

Now, it's GOOD for business. And the world is being duped into buying cheap, useless crap.

This is why I prefer antiques. They last forever. And given care, respect and attention, they will last for yet another forever. Certainly as long as any of us is likely to be around. And quality of manufacture back in the old days was so much better than it is now. That's why I love the past.

I think a lot of those items that still exist today not only because they were quality, but also they were luxury so you treated them well.

Think about things like the earliest fridges- monitor tops and flat tops. These are really quite common still (more common in NY because GE was based here). They were so well made that they run forever so there is no need to "replace" them. But they were also kept because they cost a fortune back in the day- $300- as much as a car!

People don't mistreat things they pay big money for.

We live in a disposable society. Everything from diapers to dishes are disposable. It's sad.

There's a woman who's often on TV who does financial stuff. I saw part of her sessions one time and it was on women and money. She said that how we treat the things we buy with our money (which we spend energy and sweat on making) says a lot about how we think about ourselves. Her example was if we go out and spend $100 on clothes and leave them lying on the floor, what does that say about how we respect our time and ourselves?

So what does it say about us that we spend our time and money on things we just throw away?

 

[fashion frank]

Oh yes. Last Saturday, a young lady serving me from behind the bar, told me that she found it refreshing to see someone so smartly dressed.
.

Man I get that all the time and just the other day when that happened to me by a young lady I replied " yes I hate seeing women your age running around in sweatpants and hair in a ponytail ,no dress ,makeup or hair done in other words we are losing our "class" in this country" .
She replied " are you kidding losing it ,it's already gone !"

All The Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[jamespowers]

She replied " are you kidding losing it ,it's already gone !"

All The Best ,Fashion Frank

She knows and she is right.

 

[Fading Fast]

I think a lot of those items that still exist today not only because they were quality, but also they were luxury so you treated them well.

Think about things like the earliest fridges- monitor tops and flat tops. These are really quite common still (more common in NY because GE was based here). They were so well made that they run forever so there is no need to "replace" them. But they were also kept because they cost a fortune back in the day- $300- as much as a car!

People don't mistreat things they pay big money for.

We live in a disposable society. Everything from diapers to dishes are disposable. It's sad.

There's a woman who's often on TV who does financial stuff. I saw part of her sessions one time and it was on women and money. She said that how we treat the things we buy with our money (which we spend energy and sweat on making) says a lot about how we think about ourselves. Her example was if we go out and spend $100 on clothes and leave them lying on the floor, what does that say about how we respect our time and ourselves?

So what does it say about us that we spend our time and money on things we just throw away?

I've been thinking about your post since I read it yesterday and while I'm inclined to be of the same sentiment, you made me think a little more about it. Growing up, the few things we bought were bought with the expectation that they would last a long, long time and would be repaired if they broke. And that seems a value-oriented, long-term-thinking, respect-for-your money approach to me. But you also mentioned how an early refrigerator cost about the same as a car.

I don't remember exactly how much, but in the mid-1960s, my Father bought a TV (the only one in the house - remember those days) for, at least, a few hundred dollars. It was a big, big purchase and we had that TV for over twenty years. That said, I bought a TV five years ago on sale for about $400 dollars. In constant dollar terms, my TV probably cost about one-tenth or less of what it cost my Dad and while it won't last as long (I bet), it only has to last two years (one-tenth as long as his did) and I'll get about the same value-per-dollar-spent. Since mine is now five years old, I have enjoyed over two-times the TV watching that he did for his money, in constant dollar terms.

Where I'm going is that while today's buy-cheap-stuff, throw-away-don't repair mentality goes against my grain, against my innate sense of value and respect for money, maybe we are where we are because these "cheap" products give us what society wants: affordable products that, like the TV analysis, are cheaper in constant-dollar terms than they were decades ago and allow us to have more of them and to upgrade them more often.

I realize this is a much bigger discussion that needs to include resource use and how a consumer culture can erode other values, but from a narrow dollar perspective, despite my inclination to think today's stuff is garbage (and long for a time when you thought long and hard about a purchase and, then, owned that thing forever), maybe there is value and logic to the buy-cheap-and-throw-away approach. After all, I know that the generation growing up now seems to have much more stuff in their houses than we did and, in constant dollar terms, they are paying much less for it. I'm not saying that how much stuff you have is an absolute measure of success (I don't think it is), but people like to have things and that more middle and lower-middle class people can afford things isn't a bad thing.

 

[sheeplady]

I've been thinking about your post since I read it yesterday and while I'm inclined to be of the same sentiment, you made me think a little more about it. Growing up, the few things we bought were bought with the expectation that they would last a long, long time and would be repaired if they broke. And that seems a value-oriented, long-term-thinking, respect-for-your money approach to me. But you also mentioned how an early refrigerator cost about the same as a car.

I don't remember exactly how much, but in the mid-1960s, my Father bought a TV (the only one in the house - remember those days) for, at least, a few hundred dollars. It was a big, big purchase and we had that TV for over twenty years. That said, I bought a TV five years ago on sale for about $400 dollars. In constant dollar terms, my TV probably cost about one-tenth or less of what it cost my Dad and while it won't last as long (I bet), it only has to last two years (one-tenth as long as his did) and I'll get about the same value-per-dollar-spent. Since mine is now five years old, I have enjoyed over two-times the TV watching that he did for his money, in constant dollar terms.

Where I'm going is that while today's buy-cheap-stuff, throw-away-don't repair mentality goes against my grain, against my innate sense of value and respect for money, maybe we are where we are because these "cheap" products give us what society wants: affordable products that, like the TV analysis, are cheaper in constant-dollar terms than they were decades ago and allow us to have more of them and to upgrade them more often.

I realize this is a much bigger discussion that needs to include resource use and how a consumer culture can erode other values, but from a narrow dollar perspective, despite my inclination to think today's stuff is garbage (and long for a time when you thought long and hard about a purchase and, then, owned that thing forever), maybe there is value and logic to the buy-cheap-and-throw-away approach. After all, I know that the generation growing up now seems to have much more stuff in their houses than we did and, in constant dollar terms, they are paying much less for it. I'm not saying that how much stuff you have is an absolute measure of success (I don't think it is), but people like to have things and that more middle and lower-middle class people can afford things isn't a bad thing.

I do think you're bringing up a good point about value over the long versus short term. Take cars for instance- Model A's are pretty indestructible. They're easy to repair, simple, good quality. But they also had to have their engines entirely refurbished every 20,000 to 50,000 miles or so. (I've been told this, but I could be incorrect on the exact mileage.) Our modern cars, while they don't represent the pure quality that Model A's have as far as longevity really do perform quite well- they don't need to be re-tuned even when they are doing 200,000 or 300,000 miles. And they come with a lot more bells and whistles than they used to. Some of those bells and whistles being safety features that are increasingly needed due to modern driving conditions.

As far as the working and middle classes being able to buy more stuff, I see that as not necessarily a good thing. People having cheap refrigeration to keep their food safe? That's a definite win. People going into debt because of rampant consumerism? That's a definite loss. (I also have issues with the way that such goods have become so cheap and inexpensive- mainly on the backs of foreign labor that is working in near-slavery conditions- while taking industry out of developed nations.)

Personally, I think we have too much want in our society. It is nice to have nice things, and believe me, I have nice things. We have a very nice flat screen TV, we have a nice range, a dishwasher, etc. I am certainly not a minimalist. But those cheap goods seem to have a huge cost. And in reality, they haven't really helped us as a society in any general way- we're not putting away more money for retirement thanks to cheap goods, or having less debt thanks to cheap goods, or getting better jobs because of cheap goods- all we're doing is buying more stuff.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Personally, I think we have too much want in our society. It is nice to have nice things, and believe me, I have nice things. We have a very nice flat screen TV, we have a nice range, a dishwasher, etc. I am certainly not a minimalist. But those cheap goods seem to have a huge cost. And in reality, they haven't really helped us as a society in any general way- we're not putting away more money for retirement thanks to cheap goods, or having less debt thanks to cheap goods, or getting better jobs because of cheap goods- all we're doing is buying more stuff.

When "the good life" is defined by what you own, I don't consider that a "good life" at all. A society where the essential worth of a person is determined by what and how much he consumes is a life very far from being "good."

 

[fashion frank]

When "the good life" is defined by what you own, I don't consider that a "good life" at all. A society where the essential worth of a person is determined by what and how much he consumes is a life very far from being "good."

WOW that was a mouthfull!

I can hear my priest saying "material things in life are not what makes you happy , what makes you happy is the fact that you live a "good" life and your family and friends thats what's important ".

What Lizzie Maine states here is very relevent in todays society of work ,consume and die.

All The Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Canadian]

The thing that surprises me now is, when it comes to clothing, so many items are to be worn for one season, then discarded. I probably buy 2-3 pair shoes a year. Sometimes I need specialized shoes (for example, a pair of tennis shoes) but people actually say things like, "That was last year's shoe", referring to a change in style, not specifically that the shoe is damaged. Or "Seersucker suits are meant to be replaced every year. Imagine that, buying a 200 dollar suit and wearing it maybe three dozen times. I still have clothing from university and I graduated in 2007. Sure, some of it wore out, but it's funny how even if something isn't worn out, it's considered to be "out of style" and therefore disposable.

As for other goods, imagine buying a car and being told it will last for 300,000km and then be junk. I've got an 02 Grand Cherokee and it's got 245000km on it. I don't know that I can actually afford a similar quality car in three years. Maybe if I knuckle under and buy a Korean car, but I find it sad that domestic cars are so disposable. My first truck was a 91 Ford F150 and we drove it till the tranny fell out. I didn't get my hands on it till after high school.

I know these are modern examples. The good news is the guy at the dealership says that with good care, he's seen Jeeps with 600,000 on them. I guess if you take care of your durable goods, they are literally more durable.