Movie hats

[Frunobulax]

Oh good lord, no! You're quite welcome. That would be like saying Adam West was the best Batman.

Blasphemer!


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[tropicalbob]

The hat being worn by Val Kilmer in the above shots is, I think, the famous Left Bank hat (or Poet's Hat). I thought it was a nice touch to give Doc Holiday a French Symboliste reference. It suited the character perfectly.

 

[T Jones]

Blasphemer!


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Oops.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

That would be like saying Adam West was the best Batman.

LOL! Well I would have no expertise or opinion on that. That would be like asking me about "Robin Hood: Men in Tights".

 

[Michael R.]

Oops.

The Bat Guano got you . I knew na na na na na Batman ! *BOOM* BAM * ZONK* would sink the ship .

 

[Hurricane Jack]

This is a tough call for me simply because they're two different portrayals of Wyatt Earp in two very different versions of the same story. I consider Tombstone as the "MTV, fast food, Reader's Digest Condensed" version of the story, while Wyatt Earp is the more in-depth examination. The problem, I think, is that Kevin Costner occasionally seems a bit lost in period pieces such as this--moments when his performance itself feels anachronistic--so Kurt Russell's performance is more consistent by comparison. I suppose that means I'd give Russell's performance a slight edge, but of the two movies I prefer Wyatt Earp.

I understand what you are saying. I have Costner's DVD but I have to be honest, I can't remember the last time I watched it from the beginning. I usually start at about Chapter 4. I'm not interested in the chapters about him growing up on a farm in Iowa, burning down his house in Lamar, MO when his pregnant wife dies, stealing a horse & leaving for Arkansas, etc. that part of the in-depth examination doesn't interest me.

 

[basbol13]

Great discussion on Wyatt Earp,
How about Custer?
IMO I think when it comes to a similarity to Custer, its Gary Cole Son of the Morning Star

over Richard Mulligan Little Big Man

My only prejudice is that I like Errol Flynn acting wise over either of them. I just like EF.

 

[Bamaboots]

This is a tough call for me simply because they're two different portrayals of Wyatt Earp in two very different versions of the same story. I consider Tombstone as the "MTV, fast food, Reader's Digest Condensed" version of the story, while Wyatt Earp is the more in-depth examination. The problem, I think, is that Kevin Costner occasionally seems a bit lost in period pieces such as this--moments when his performance itself feels anachronistic--so Kurt Russell's performance is more consistent by comparison. I suppose that means I'd give Russell's performance a slight edge, but of the two movies I prefer Wyatt Earp.

Don't think I've ever heard it put more succinctly or accurately, Alex.

 

[Michael R.]

Depends on who you believe , but the truth is maybe somewhere in the middle , about Custer . Its been a while , was it Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull that was the Chief that they say lead the Battle of Little Big Horn ?

They Died with Their Boots On with Errol Flynn portrayed him was a Hero , and Little Big Man portrayed him as a crazy doofus . But whichever his character was assassinated by Little Big Man during the Vietnam Hippy Days . He probably had no idea what he had gotten himself into until it was too late .

From The Nebraska Historical Society ...

The Changing Image of George Armstrong Custer
Posted on March 20, 2014 by David Bristow




Lt. Col. George Custer was once considered “the model of a Christian warrior.” In the 1870s, poets called him heroic, splendid and glorious. One magazine editor called him “chief among our nation’s knights,” and in popular opinion Custer was a martyr who fell defending the frontier.

How did a man so lauded by his contemporaries later become the subject of lasting ridicule and disgrace? In the Spring 2014 issue of Nebraska History, Brian W. Dippie discusses the factors involved in the changing image of George Armstrong Custer among historians and in popular culture.

Born in 1839, Custer became famous as the “Boy General” in the Civil War, and carried that fame with him when he joined the Seventh Cavalry after the war. But what ensured his lasting fame was his death. On an 1876 expedition to confine “hostile” Lakota to their reservation, Custer chose to attack an Indian camp that proved much larger than his forces. He and all 212 men under his direct command were killed at the Battle of Little Bighorn, or “Custer’s Last Stand.”


Custer’s Last Stand, by F.C. Yohn, ca. 1929. From 1930 Calendar, Caron & McGrath (General Insurance), Southbridge, Massachusetts. In 1930, four years after the observance of the semi-centennial of his Last Stand, Custer was still riding high in popular esteem.

On July 6, 1876, just two days after the United States’ 100th birthday, the nation received news of Custer’s defeat. Dippie explains how this timing was crucial – Custer’s defeat clashed with the centennial celebrations of American progress. Writers, poets and politicians romanticized Custer’s death, painting him as a hero to aspire to. As magazine editor E.M. Stannard wrote,

“Custer fell! But not until his manly worth had won for him imperishable honor. Pure as a virgin, frank and open-hearted as a child, opposed to the use of tobacco, liquors, and profane language, free from political corruption, cool and courageous in the midst of the fiercest battle, he has left to us the model of a Christian warrior.”


They Died With Their Boots On (Warner Brothers, 1941). Errol Flynn’s grand finale in this film represents the zenith of Custer’s heroic career on the screen.

Not everyone thought of Custer in such noble terms, but these dissenters were fairly quiet until the 1930s when criticism of Custer became more mainstream. The Great Depression made it hard to believe in glowing tales like the legend of Custer. In 1934, one year after Custer’s widow died, Frederic F. Van de Water published the biography Glory-Hunter,which portrayed Custer in an extremely unfavorable light. Van de Water saw Custer as a proud, immature and foolish man “with little to recommend him beyond a headlong bravery and a picturesque appearance. He’d have made a damned spectacular United States Senator, but he was a deplorable soldier.”

Perceptions of Custer were mixed for several decades. The 1941 movie They Died with Their Boots On once again portrayed a heroic, charismatic Custer and was released just days before the attack on Pearl Harbor. However by the 1960s, growing empathy for Native Americans and backlash from the Vietnam War caused Custer to be perceived more than ever as a foolish villain.


Little Big Man (Cinema Center Films, 1970). Richard Mulligan’s Custer reversed the heroic conventions established in films like They Died With Their Boots On and served to critique American involvement in Vietnam by descent into madness at his Last Stand.

Popular opinion has not seen Custer as a hero ever since. And in Dippie’s opinion, it probably never will again. “His champions have never given up – doomed Last Stands are in their blood – and they still fight a rearguard action in his defense,” Dippie writes. “But they have no purchase in popular culture. His detractors hold the field.”

 

[Frunobulax]

Oops.

TBH, I don't know who my fave would be. West's campiness is fun, and I still have a fondness for Keaton's version.

Meh. I've always been a Marvel guy anyway. [emoji4]


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[T Jones]

TBH, I don't know who my fave would be. West's campiness is fun, and I still have a fondness for Keaton's version.

Meh. I've always been a Marvel guy anyway. [emoji4]


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

I think I'd have to go with Michael Keaton as the best Batman, too. I didn't care much for Bale's version. Although, Ben Afleck actually surprised me. I liked him as Batman.

 

[T Jones]

Depends on who you believe , but the truth is maybe somewhere in the middle , about Custer . Its been a while , was it Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull that was the Chief that they say lead the Battle of Little Big Horn ?

They Died with Their Boots On with Errol Flynn portrayed him was a Hero , and Little Big Man portrayed him as a crazy doofus . But whichever his character was assassinated by Little Big Man during the Vietnam Hippy Days . He probably had no idea what he had gotten himself into until it was too late .

From The Nebraska Historical Society ...

The Changing Image of George Armstrong Custer
Posted on March 20, 2014 by David Bristow




Lt. Col. George Custer was once considered “the model of a Christian warrior.” In the 1870s, poets called him heroic, splendid and glorious. One magazine editor called him “chief among our nation’s knights,” and in popular opinion Custer was a martyr who fell defending the frontier.

How did a man so lauded by his contemporaries later become the subject of lasting ridicule and disgrace? In the Spring 2014 issue of Nebraska History, Brian W. Dippie discusses the factors involved in the changing image of George Armstrong Custer among historians and in popular culture.

Born in 1839, Custer became famous as the “Boy General” in the Civil War, and carried that fame with him when he joined the Seventh Cavalry after the war. But what ensured his lasting fame was his death. On an 1876 expedition to confine “hostile” Lakota to their reservation, Custer chose to attack an Indian camp that proved much larger than his forces. He and all 212 men under his direct command were killed at the Battle of Little Bighorn, or “Custer’s Last Stand.”


Custer’s Last Stand, by F.C. Yohn, ca. 1929. From 1930 Calendar, Caron & McGrath (General Insurance), Southbridge, Massachusetts. In 1930, four years after the observance of the semi-centennial of his Last Stand, Custer was still riding high in popular esteem.

On July 6, 1876, just two days after the United States’ 100th birthday, the nation received news of Custer’s defeat. Dippie explains how this timing was crucial – Custer’s defeat clashed with the centennial celebrations of American progress. Writers, poets and politicians romanticized Custer’s death, painting him as a hero to aspire to. As magazine editor E.M. Stannard wrote,

“Custer fell! But not until his manly worth had won for him imperishable honor. Pure as a virgin, frank and open-hearted as a child, opposed to the use of tobacco, liquors, and profane language, free from political corruption, cool and courageous in the midst of the fiercest battle, he has left to us the model of a Christian warrior.”


They Died With Their Boots On (Warner Brothers, 1941). Errol Flynn’s grand finale in this film represents the zenith of Custer’s heroic career on the screen.

Not everyone thought of Custer in such noble terms, but these dissenters were fairly quiet until the 1930s when criticism of Custer became more mainstream. The Great Depression made it hard to believe in glowing tales like the legend of Custer. In 1934, one year after Custer’s widow died, Frederic F. Van de Water published the biography Glory-Hunter,which portrayed Custer in an extremely unfavorable light. Van de Water saw Custer as a proud, immature and foolish man “with little to recommend him beyond a headlong bravery and a picturesque appearance. He’d have made a damned spectacular United States Senator, but he was a deplorable soldier.”

Perceptions of Custer were mixed for several decades. The 1941 movie They Died with Their Boots On once again portrayed a heroic, charismatic Custer and was released just days before the attack on Pearl Harbor. However by the 1960s, growing empathy for Native Americans and backlash from the Vietnam War caused Custer to be perceived more than ever as a foolish villain.


Little Big Man (Cinema Center Films, 1970). Richard Mulligan’s Custer reversed the heroic conventions established in films like They Died With Their Boots On and served to critique American involvement in Vietnam by descent into madness at his Last Stand.

Popular opinion has not seen Custer as a hero ever since. And in Dippie’s opinion, it probably never will again. “His champions have never given up – doomed Last Stands are in their blood – and they still fight a rearguard action in his defense,” Dippie writes. “But they have no purchase in popular culture. His detractors hold the field.”

"Fort Apache" had an interesting take on Custer. Although the characters were different, it was obvious that Ford was referencing Custer with Fonda's portrayal of Lt. Col. Owen Thursday in the movie...

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Don't think I've ever heard it put more succinctly or accurately, Alex.

Probably the best real account of Wyatt & his brother's comes from Allie Earp, Virgil's 3rd wife who outlived them all until 1947. She wrote & told about the great influence Wyatt had over all his brother's, to the dismay of their wives. She wrote & told about how danger followed them everywhere even during the times when they were not in law enforcement, because Wyatt & his friend Doc Holliday were dangerous men. It's a very interesting perspective she had, told with no agenda.

Reminds me of what one of Jesse James granddaughters-in-law said when asked why there had been so many marriages & divorces in the family starting with Jesse's son, then his grandchildren? Her answer was that it was hard on a marriage living with the ghost of Jesse James.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Depends on who you believe , but the truth is maybe somewhere in the middle , about Custer . Its been a while , was it Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull that was the Chief that they say lead the Battle of Little Big Horn ?

They Died with Their Boots On with Errol Flynn portrayed him was a Hero , and Little Big Man portrayed him as a crazy doofus . But whichever his character was assassinated by Little Big Man during the Vietnam Hippy Days . He probably had no idea what he had gotten himself into until it was too late .

From The Nebraska Historical Society ...

The Changing Image of George Armstrong Custer
Posted on March 20, 2014 by David Bristow




Lt. Col. George Custer was once considered “the model of a Christian warrior.” In the 1870s, poets called him heroic, splendid and glorious. One magazine editor called him “chief among our nation’s knights,” and in popular opinion Custer was a martyr who fell defending the frontier.

How did a man so lauded by his contemporaries later become the subject of lasting ridicule and disgrace? In the Spring 2014 issue of Nebraska History, Brian W. Dippie discusses the factors involved in the changing image of George Armstrong Custer among historians and in popular culture.

Born in 1839, Custer became famous as the “Boy General” in the Civil War, and carried that fame with him when he joined the Seventh Cavalry after the war. But what ensured his lasting fame was his death. On an 1876 expedition to confine “hostile” Lakota to their reservation, Custer chose to attack an Indian camp that proved much larger than his forces. He and all 212 men under his direct command were killed at the Battle of Little Bighorn, or “Custer’s Last Stand.”


Custer’s Last Stand, by F.C. Yohn, ca. 1929. From 1930 Calendar, Caron & McGrath (General Insurance), Southbridge, Massachusetts. In 1930, four years after the observance of the semi-centennial of his Last Stand, Custer was still riding high in popular esteem.

On July 6, 1876, just two days after the United States’ 100th birthday, the nation received news of Custer’s defeat. Dippie explains how this timing was crucial – Custer’s defeat clashed with the centennial celebrations of American progress. Writers, poets and politicians romanticized Custer’s death, painting him as a hero to aspire to. As magazine editor E.M. Stannard wrote,

“Custer fell! But not until his manly worth had won for him imperishable honor. Pure as a virgin, frank and open-hearted as a child, opposed to the use of tobacco, liquors, and profane language, free from political corruption, cool and courageous in the midst of the fiercest battle, he has left to us the model of a Christian warrior.”


They Died With Their Boots On (Warner Brothers, 1941). Errol Flynn’s grand finale in this film represents the zenith of Custer’s heroic career on the screen.

Not everyone thought of Custer in such noble terms, but these dissenters were fairly quiet until the 1930s when criticism of Custer became more mainstream. The Great Depression made it hard to believe in glowing tales like the legend of Custer. In 1934, one year after Custer’s widow died, Frederic F. Van de Water published the biography Glory-Hunter,which portrayed Custer in an extremely unfavorable light. Van de Water saw Custer as a proud, immature and foolish man “with little to recommend him beyond a headlong bravery and a picturesque appearance. He’d have made a damned spectacular United States Senator, but he was a deplorable soldier.”

Perceptions of Custer were mixed for several decades. The 1941 movie They Died with Their Boots On once again portrayed a heroic, charismatic Custer and was released just days before the attack on Pearl Harbor. However by the 1960s, growing empathy for Native Americans and backlash from the Vietnam War caused Custer to be perceived more than ever as a foolish villain.


Little Big Man (Cinema Center Films, 1970). Richard Mulligan’s Custer reversed the heroic conventions established in films like They Died With Their Boots On and served to critique American involvement in Vietnam by descent into madness at his Last Stand.

Popular opinion has not seen Custer as a hero ever since. And in Dippie’s opinion, it probably never will again. “His champions have never given up – doomed Last Stands are in their blood – and they still fight a rearguard action in his defense,” Dippie writes. “But they have no purchase in popular culture. His detractors hold the field.”

Oral history of the Lakota tells quite a different story of the battle & how Custer figured into it all. Even the National Park Service has changed the official version after a fire burned off all the scrub & evidence that had been laying on the ground all these yrs was recovered.

I was at the battlefield for the 138th anniversary when the Native American monument was rededicated, & at the 140th anniversary. If you have never been there it is a moving experience.

 

[Benzadmiral]

. . .

And the 3rd runner up, Stacy Keach

Keach really looks like a man of that period. The lighting, the dustiness, and the everyday disarray of the actress -- is that Faye Dunaway? -- helps as well.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Custer and his wife visited New Orleans in 1872 at Carnival time, as guests of the Russian Grand Duke Alexis Romanoff. As Carnival historian Arthur Hardy puts it, "A visit by the Russian Grand Duke Alexis Romanoff was the partial inspiration for the first appearance of Rex in 1872. The King of Carnival immediately became the international symbol of Mardi Gras. Rex presented Mardi Gras' first organized daytime parade, selected Carnival's colors--purple, gold and green, produced its flag, and introduced its anthem, 'If Ever I Cease To Love.' "

It wasn't until I read Larry McMurtry's book on Custer that I found G.A. had been in NO at that point. Mardi Gras histories always mention the Grand Duke Alexis, but never Custer.

 

[hatophile]

Oral history of the Lakota tells quite a different story of the battle & how Custer figured into it all. Even the National Park Service has changed the official version after a fire burned off all the scrub & evidence that had been laying on the ground all these yrs was recovered.

I was at the battlefield for the 138th anniversary when the Native American monument was rededicated, & at the 140th anniversary. If you have never been there it is a moving experience.

Have been there also, it's an amazing experience. As with many of our historical figures, Custer was a complex and occasionally contradictory character, a man of those times who put a strong value on valor, courage and white expansion throughout the remainder of the country. Looking back even some of his exploits during the Civil War were somewhat foolhardy. The Native Americans were just trying to survive.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Have been there also, it's an amazing experience.

The only other place that I have been where I felt anything similar in my chest was on the battlefield at Shiloh.

 

[hatophile]

The only other place that I have been where I felt anything similar in my chest was on the battlefield at Shiloh.

Haven't been to Shiloh, I was a Gettysburg as a 10 year old Civil War buff, even for a little guy I could feel the stirring there. I have recently found through some genealogy I had at least 4 ancestors in the Confederacy. My mom's mother's family were New Yorkers, so probably some of them were in the Union.
Someday I would like to take a trek to some of the battlegrounds throughout the country.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Haven't been to Shiloh, I was a Gettysburg as a 10 year old Civil War buff, even for a little guy I could feel the stirring there. I have recently found through some genealogy I had at least 4 ancestors in the Confederacy. My mom's mother's family were New Yorkers, so probably some of them were in the Union.
Someday I would like to take a trek to some of the battlegrounds throughout the country.

I haven't been to Gettysburg. I have been to Chickamauga & lots of Quantrill sites. I would really like to go to Antitem sometime, & I am sure that would really be moving.