Modern Male Identity Crisis

[WH1]

No identity crisis here I have been fortunate to have great role models over the years...my grandfather a simple rancher and my grandmother, who stepped up when he was critically ill for many years, they taught me the values of hard work and family, my father and step father who taught me that a "man" makes the right decisions even though it is usually the more difficult road but the reward is greater. The many Marines who have mentored and instilled the core values of honor, courage and commitment in me . I grew up in supposedly macho surroundings, the military, ranches/farms and such but one thing that I always saw was the most successful relationships were between partners who supported one another fully and the importance of taking responsibility for your decisions and actions. IMHO one of the biggest issues facing our 20 somethings both male and female is the idea that they "need" someone to be complete. They spend so much time looking for someone to complete them that they neglect determining who they are, what their goals are, what their values are. Unless you have developed as an individual capable of standing on your own two feet how can you be an equal partner in a worthwhile relationship which will benefit both parties not to mention their offspring. I remember my wedding day everyone kept asking me if I was nervous...No if I had been nervous I wouldn't have done it, I knew I was ready to step up and take on the responsibility of being a husband and partner to my wife and a father to two young men. My wife and I didn't NEED one another we wanted one another. Best decision I ever made gets better everyday. Takes work but anything of value should. No instant gratification!
Enough pontificating just one man's opinion.

 

[scottyrocks]

Based on the last few posts, I need to differentiate between wants and values.

I've always been of the mind that I have a strong sense of moral right and wrong. I always feel that holding a family-supporting job is paramount. I always feel that doing the right thing is important, no matter how negligible it may seem to some others.

But I am happiest, the most fulfilled, when I can do these things for someone else that I care about - that person I could lie down and die for.

I can be forthright all on my own. But I want to do it for someone else - my better half. That's what makes my time worth having.

 

[davidraphael]

I don't really know what 'being a real man' is. If it's to be like Sean Connery, then I'm no man. And I don't know what a real woman is 'supposed to be' either. Everyone I have ever met, man or woman, has been complex in their own way and not easy to define or label.

This whole 'man up/ be a man' attitude has been around forever. It intimidated me as a small child and bored me as an adult.

In principle, 'duty, responsibility and honour' should be everyone's goals, not just mens'. But let's not forget that the meaning of these concepts shift drastically with time, and between cultures. 'Honour' in Japan, for example, caused god knows how many suicides. And 'duty' has meant slavishly and blindly following jingoistic ideals (ie, informing on people during the Soviet era; going to futile wars for 'king and country').

So, in themselves, those so-called desirable concepts are not inherently praise-worthy, only what each of them entails in reality.



re: relationships

A Buddhist monk said "If you're in a relationship you can get relationship-stress; if you're single you can suffer from being-single-stress." And it's the same with any state that you may feel is preferable.

I think the key is to deal with anxiety no matter what the source of it may be. And, wherever possible, to avoid unrealistic expectations.

Stress and anxiety exist in the space between how one perceives the world (or a situation) and how the world (or a situation) really is. The bigger the gap, the more the anxiety.


If men (or anyone for that matter) are suffering from an identity crisis it's because they have false expectations. Either that, or someone is measuring them against intangible ideals and invented realities (idiot husbands/fathers in sitcoms and TV commercials etc. Or adversely, perpetuating the idea that you're somehow supposed to be the alpha male 'head of a household', which to me has always felt like an unnecessary heirarchical imposition). I'm less alpha male than my wife! And I do all the cooking!

"Women flat out DON'T CARE about men"

This was clearly written by someone who is determined to make the reader perceive him as a so-called 'real man', otherwise he wouldn't attempt so strongly to underline what he perceives to be the difference between men and women. It's sad, really. A heavy-handed attempt - like wearing an ill-fitting toupe.

 

[sheeplady]

All of the women they know are like this too. He honestly wouldn't care if she worked and would be more then happy to help with the chores if she did, but if she's home and he's working, he expects her to do her share.

Yeah, I was basically raised that this was the deal. The spouse that stays home is responsible for the majority of the housework. Being a single income family puts a lot of stress on the single income earner, and they have to work harder to ensure their family is safe and has money.

I know a woman, who has stayed home since she was married, does not cook, clean, or pack her husband's lunch. Then she complains that her husband makes too little money. It's just incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to her husband, who has supported her for upwards of 30 years and made sure that they live quite comfortably. I don't understand why, if she wants more money, she doesn't work?

As a woman, reading that feels like a kick in the stomach (but blatant misogyny usually does.)

I'd like to say that man's mother must be proud of him, but she probably is. A couple months ago I had to listen to a grandmother lament that her son shouldn't have to pay child support for his baby, because the grandmother raised her son and stuggled all on her own; why couldn't the other woman do the same? Why did her son have to suffer? After all, the woman was a crazy _____ according to the grandmother.

 

[Edward]

As a lifelong feminist (not a dirty word), I am not rejoicing about men's downfall. Rather, I am sick and tired of being blamed for the fact the poor, sad white men are no longer king of the Jungle. It is not feminist's fault that so many men want desperately to marry their Mothers and can't seem to find the right "gal". Most men want to live in the apartment over grandma's garage until they either die or run out of money. Fear of committment is not feminist's fault, so get over it. We must come to a new understanding between men and women that goes a lot deeper than who will do the laundry and who bring home the bacon!

BRAVO! If anything ever drives me out of the vintage community, it'll be the poor, self-pitying, "wasn't it better back in the day?" white wannabe alphamale.

 

[Tomasso]

BRAVO!

A big fan of venom, are you.......

 

[rue]

I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole.... :eeek:

 

[rue]

I know a woman, who has stayed home since she was married, does not cook, clean, or pack her husband's lunch. Then she complains that her husband makes too little money. It's just incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to her husband, who has supported her for upwards of 30 years and made sure that they live quite comfortably. I don't understand why, if she wants more money, she doesn't work?

If you hadn't said they were married 30 years, I would think you were describing my sister-in-law.

 

[Sharpsburg]

A big fan of venom, are you.......

What is the difference between honesty and venom? Some of us study the past, but don't want to live there.

 

[Tomasso]

What is the difference between honesty and venom? .

I don't know....but most who spew venom don the cloak of 'honesty' to insulate themselves from the ugliness of their statements.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't know....but most who spew venom don the cloak of 'honesty' to insulate themselves from the ugliness of their statements.

Yes

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'd like to say that man's mother must be proud of him, but she probably is. A couple months ago I had to listen to a grandmother lament that her son shouldn't have to pay child support for his baby, because the grandmother raised her son and stuggled all on her own; why couldn't the other woman do the same? Why did her son have to suffer? After all, the woman was a crazy _____ according to the grandmother.

It's things like this that make me wish there was still such a thing as alimony jail. I couldn't care less about modern gender politics, but a man who refuses to pay child support after fathering a child, when he is fully capable of doing so, belongs on a chain gang. "The woman" wasn't so crazy that he wasn't willing to sleep with her.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I agree with you. I know a lot of people at work who try to figure out ways to not pay child support and not have anything to do with their child. It sickens me. If you're gonna put yourself in a situation that could lead to your romantic partner expecting a child, you'd best be ready to man up in the case that it does happen.

It's things like this that make me wish there was still such a thing as alimony jail. I couldn't care less about modern gender politics, but a man who refuses to pay child support after fathering a child, when he is fully capable of doing so, belongs on a chain gang. "The woman" wasn't so crazy that he wasn't willing to sleep with her.

 

[rue]

Don't get me started on child support issues.... I have an ex-husband that owes me 25 grand in back payments and quit his job as a journeyman electrician to work at a clothing store so he wouldn't have to pay as much to pay it back. Not to mention he hasn't seen the kids in 7 years.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My "father" never paid a nickel of support toward me after I was six years old. He better hope he never runs into me again. Such a "man" is nothing of the kind.

 

[rue]

I'm sorry Lizzie.
My daughter feels the same way about it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You know, if you get right down to it, I really don't care what "manliness" is -- but I *do* know, without question, what it *isn't.* Taking an irresponsible shirking of personal responsibility and wrapping it up in halfwitted, prancing misogynistic bravado, is *not* manly. Doesn't matter how big your gun is if you go shooting it off like a fool without regard for the consequences.

 

[rue]

Well said Lizzie.


I also wanted to add that as bad as it is that he owes the money, watching my daughter cry like someone died every single year he promised to come on her birthday and didn't show up was heart wrenching. She stopped crying about 3 years ago, but I know she thinks about it every year.

 

[jamespowers]

If
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

 

[Sharpsburg]

I don't know....but most who spew venom don the cloak of 'honesty' to insulate themselves from the ugliness of their statements.

Where is the ugliness? I really want to know. My statements were based on observations I have actually seen. The discussion about child support had a touch of venom in in\t, but noone objected to that. I smell hypocracy in your statements, sir.