Modern Male Identity Crisis

[Gene]

I just read this article today discussing how modern men are in a huge state of identity crisis and how they cling to their adolescence long after it's over. I think this has a great deal of relevance here to us and wanted to share!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/opinion/bennett-men-ridiculed/index.html?hpt=li_c2

 

[Undertow]

Thanks for the article, Gene!

I'm sure many of us will agree with the sentiments expressed in the article, although it seems a little diluted compared to similar articles I've seen from mass media outlets. (Nothing against you Gene, it's just how CNN tends to do things. I read them everyday and see this contrast often.)

On the other hand, I took issue with the seemingly needless poke at the Occupy Wall St. movement. Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like OWS is the the reference du jour for journalists to make their articles relevant. Specifically, I took issue with the statement:

"Instead of industriousness, responsibility and entrepreneurship, these men demand free college education, required living wages and greater distribution of someone else's wealth. Rather than look inward and rely on their own self-sufficiency, they look for a handout. A man's livelihood once depended on his hands, back and brain. Today, the government can do all that for him, if he lets it."

I'll leave politics out of this forum but it seemed like a silly cheap shot to take when there are so many other glaring problems which might have been referenced regarding the drop in "manliness".

 

[ButteMT61]

Thanks for the article, Gene!

I'm sure many of us will agree with the sentiments expressed in the article, although it seems a little diluted compared to similar articles I've seen from mass media outlets. (Nothing against you Gene, it's just how CNN tends to do things. I read them everyday and see this contrast often.)

On the other hand, I took issue with the seemingly needless poke at the Occupy Wall St. movement. Perhaps it's just me, but it seems like OWS is the the reference du jour for journalists to make their articles relevant. Specifically, I took issue with the statement:

"Instead of industriousness, responsibility and entrepreneurship, these men demand free college education, required living wages and greater distribution of someone else's wealth. Rather than look inward and rely on their own self-sufficiency, they look for a handout. A man's livelihood once depended on his hands, back and brain. Today, the government can do all that for him, if he lets it."

I'll leave politics out of this forum but it seemed like a silly cheap shot to take when there are so many other glaring problems which might have been referenced regarding the drop in "manliness".

While they may have other good intentions, this summary is correct, based on what I've been able to gather. I think we can discuss without getting ugly (at least I hope so). I support people's right to protest and to gather (peaceably, etc) but I have yet to hear a coherent explanation for the movement other than what was said in the piece.
If you take a gander at current network TV lineups, men are generally pathetic. And really, kinda reflects much if what I see here in LA...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

"Instead of industriousness, responsibility and entrepreneurship, these men demand free college education, required living wages and greater distribution of someone else's wealth. Rather than look inward and rely on their own self-sufficiency, they look for a handout. A man's livelihood once depended on his hands, back and brain. Today, the government can do all that for him, if he lets it."

Word for word, the paragraph above could have been lifted from a 1930s article against the New Deal. Same words, different era.

 

[LizzieMaine]

All of this has been thoroughly discussed in this thread. Note especially the photos of Real Real Men, circa 1937.

 

[sheeplady]

I think society is preventing some young men from maturing into adult men. Young men have been laid off in far greater numbers than young women (in the US at least, I don't know about other countries). The plain fact is that you can't mature unless you take/have the opportunities to do so, and one of those most important opportunities is work. If you simply can't find a job (not for lack of trying) it's not a lack of responsibility. It's a societal problem.

If an adult is choosing to act like an adolescent, it is because somebody is enabling it. That's an entirely separate issue from a lack of opportunity.

 

[Edward]

Meh. This...again.

Any man who feels he must ensure that he is "manly" can't be. I found the article somewhat Chicken Little, to be honest. Not the worst I've seen, though.

 

[Kabel]

There is truth in this article, but reading the responses to the article, I think people should stop complaining (not on this forum, but from reading the reactions on the CNN page) and just try and get it together. The generations have evolved and evolved from the 'real man' type world to the 'metrosexual' world. We've had the extremes in a way (or maybe it has to get even more extreme) but things will settle in the end.

This reaction:

(not my comment - copied from CNN article responses)
Read carefully here men: Women don't care about you, your equality, or your rights. Feminists have taken over Family Law, turning it into nothing more than gender wealth transfer machine from women to men. Women flat out DON'T CARE about men. Remember that the next time you hear a woman crying about her rights.

And to ALL young men: Never Marry. You are being duped. (I can already hear the shaming language, so let me save you some time, I never married, and I've never regretted it.-

This reaction is what I mean when I say that people should stop complaining. It is utter nonsense. The world and everything on it has a natural wave with it's ups and downs and balances will be found if we don't emphasize it to much but let it go it's natural way (doesn't go for everything though).

 

[scottyrocks]

Kabel, I'll go with your stop complaining recommendation, but as for your not marrying/women don't care about you, that's all well and good until you find the right woman. All a man needs is the one right woman to care about him. That's the one you marry. After that, nothing else matters.

 

[Kabel]

Exactly! -on the first part, but the not marrying women comment wasn't my comment. I copied that from the responses to the CNN article. I found that such a negative and strange comment. What you say is very true. Find the right person.
In the end I always think that we just all need to get along, or at the least respect one another as equals. We're all here on this small planet and it is all we have.

 

[scottyrocks]

'Many women told me the problems are much worse than I described. They explained to me how they have to lower their standards to find a man. Young women, in particular, complained that men are dragging them down and holding them back.'

The issue here is that we are talking about feminists. In the pre-feminist 'old days,' most women had to choose from what was available, either consciously or subconsciously blinding themselves to our shortcomings. if you wanted to make it in life as a woman, you 'needed' the whole wife and mother route. Since that wonderful decade of the 60s, which I have begun to despise more and more, when everyone began to become so self-aware, satisfaction with the status quo du jour began to become passe.

 

[rue]

I just read this article today discussing how modern men are in a huge state of identity crisis and how they cling to their adolescence long after it's over. I think this has a great deal of relevance here to us and wanted to share!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/opinion/bennett-men-ridiculed/index.html?hpt=li_c2

Thank you Gene

It's sad how much real men have disappeared in society.

I have to say women aren't much better. My brother wanted to find a wife like our mother (taking care of the children and the home, cooking, etc.) and ended up with a woman that doesn't clean the house unless they do it "together" and rarely cooks. She does take care of the kids, but complains that she's too tired to do anything else and when he asks if she wants to get a job, so he can stay home instead she says no. All of the women they know are like this too. He honestly wouldn't care if she worked and would be more then happy to help with the chores if she did, but if she's home and he's working, he expects her to do her share. I can't say I disagree [huh]

Basically I think both males and females are lost......

 

[Swing Motorman]

As a soon-to-graduate college student, the article's contrast of adolescent vs. adult resonated with me. The influences my peers and I face on a daily basis can be a bewildering blend of "you're still a kid," and "grow up already!" I got sick of waiting around for one voice to win out, so I sided with the adult one. And I can see why others choose not to, because in my environment, taking the gentleman route hasn't paid off. College girls still go for the less-than-mature over the grown-up types, and the social culture is built around living in ways a responsible adult couldn't sustain, either physically (in sleep & diet) or ethically. In my limited experience, I see that us younger folks don't want to grow up because the surrounding mass culture is built for adolescents of any physical age, and the true gentlemen and ladies are outsiders to be shunned.

Thank goodness I have a deep-set nostalgic/romantic streak that makes me still believe in finding friends and companionship outside the mass culture mob (someday...) And thank goodness for good old-fashioned work experiences that let me learn some pride and professionalism.


-Steven

 

[Bluebird Marsha]

As a previous poster said, "Chicken Little". There are problems for young men, but there have been plenty of better articles on the subject. It is too easy today to slip into a protracted adolescence- for men and women. But amazing as it may sound, some of my guy friends from my younger days have actually turned into productive fathers, husbands, and citizens- despite having spent too much time delivering pizzas, playing video games/D&D, and living with their moms.

I don't watch sitcoms for examples of real men. I hope the guys aren't watching Snooki as an example of real womanhood. As my real man of a stepdad use to say about TV's and movies- "Stop trying to educate me, I just want to relax and have a good laugh."

Was this really a better reflection of the average American male?

 

[C-dot]

(not my comment - copied from CNN article responses)
Read carefully here men: Women don't care about you, your equality, or your rights. Feminists have taken over Family Law, turning it into nothing more than gender wealth transfer machine from women to men. Women flat out DON'T CARE about men. Remember that the next time you hear a woman crying about her rights.

And to ALL young men: Never Marry. You are being duped. (I can already hear the shaming language, so let me save you some time, I never married, and I've never regretted it.-

As a woman, reading that feels like a kick in the stomach (but blatant misogyny usually does.)

 

[ButteMT61]

As a soon-to-graduate college student, the article's contrast of adolescent vs. adult resonated with me. The influences my peers and I face on a daily basis can be a bewildering blend of "you're still a kid," and "grow up already!" I got sick of waiting around for one voice to win out, so I sided with the adult one. And I can see why others choose not to, because in my environment, taking the gentleman route hasn't paid off. College girls still go for the less-than-mature over the grown-up types, and the social culture is built around living in ways a responsible adult couldn't sustain, either physically (in sleep & diet) or ethically. In my limited experience, I see that us younger folks don't want to grow up because the surrounding mass culture is built for adolescents of any physical age, and the true gentlemen and ladies are outsiders to be shunned.

Thank goodness I have a deep-set nostalgic/romantic streak that makes me still believe in finding friends and companionship outside the mass culture mob (someday...) And thank goodness for good old-fashioned work experiences that let me learn some pride and professionalism.


-Steven

Steven,
For whatever reason, women like "bad boys". It bugged me when I was younger, but really, wait. The right one comes along, and this "marriage is for chumps" stuff is BS. It's not. Quality people - men and women are just harder to find. It's that simple. I was 29 when I met the woman I ended up marrying. We've been married 20 years now, raised three kids, and life is good. Until that point, my life was one weekend of dates and "one-nighters" after another - empty in other words. Don't settle. And don't worry about women who aren't worth your time. She will come. And same goes for women. I used to really feel sorry for them when I was single and saw what they had to choose from...but I think it's equally hard on both sides.

As to the general topic at hand, I do think "men" have lost a lot when I look at this generation. The line has blurred so that I'm not sure who's gay, straight, in-between, or doesn't know. Certainly it seems uncool to be a guy that gets up, goes to work, takes care of his family and deals with the ****. I feel tired sometimes - been working and raising a family and all the other things that make life fun and challenging. So when I see these kids smoking pot, hitting cops, and b*tching about their student loans while crapping in my streets, I have little empathy.

 

[Rathdown]

Was this really a better reflection of the average American male?

Yes, it was. These were two blue collar New Yorkers who worked hard, loved their wives, and tried to get ahead without relying on any thing or anyone other than themselves. They looked after the welfare of their friends, and enjoyed a social life that was harmless, both to themselves and to society at large.

So, was the "Honeymooners" a better reflection of the average American male? Well, compared to "Two and a Half Men", yes.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

She will come.

In saying this, ButteMT61 has his heart in the right place ... but the fact is, she might not show up. She might never show up.

And if she doesn't, DON'T marry a 'compromise candidate'. It's better to stay single forever than to do that.

 

[rue]

And if she doesn't, DON'T marry a 'compromise candidate'. It's better to stay single forever than to do that.

I completely agree. Settling is worse than being single.

 

[ButteMT61]

I agree settling is bad, I however am uncharacteristically optimistic in this area. I think if you really want to find someone, he/she will come. It's like finding the right job or right house. If you're lucky, it happens early, otherwise, it may take years of looking and while not easy, good people find other good people.