Merged Hatter Thread

[Tommy Fedora]

I'll miss them.

What I thought was really special about this forum was the expertise that the vendors would add to the discussions. I never felt that they pushed their wares or approached this site as anything but a friendly discussion about hats, and I think I learned most of what little I know about hats from these members. Of course, future growth and different vendors might change that, but I looked forward to their opinions and the free information they provided.
Perhaps we are reacting too soon to a problem that does not yet exist.

 

[Canadave]

Could somebody who received this PM post it here for the rest of us to see?

It's a PRIVATE message, and shouldn't be posted without the permission of the sender.

Mark one more vote for links in signatures. Clicking on it is our choice, and a convenience. I believe that if a hatter actively flogs their business in their posts, it will only serve to alienate them.

David

 

[farnham54]

If you're gonna play, you gotta pay--Thats the way I see it.

This site, along with the mag, has gone from being a hobby that MK shelled out to pay for to being a companion to a magazine that is sold for profit--MK, and others, have worked very hard at this, and I for one am incredibly envious that they can make a living on something they enjoy. This place is on the brink of a huge explosion in members, and vendors will want to target that demographic.

We've been blessed with good vendors before, but that's not always the case--eventually we will get the kinds of people you see on Ebay--you know the ones--they sell a Dorfman Pacific as the "100% OFFICIAL SCREEN ACCURATE INDY HAT! JUST LIKE IN THE MOVIES!". They will be here and they will be ruining the experience for the rest of us.

This kind of action, while I can understand why there are those who don't like it, is required in light of people like those mentioned above.

At the end of the day, if someone posts "What kind of hat is a good one these days?", there isn't a single one of our vendors who will have to flog their own product--their satisfied customers will chime in and sell it for them.

Cheers
Craig

 

[Samsa]

I guess I have too much time on my hands...

But I've been thinking this over ever since the first "Goodbye" posts surfaced, and understand this decision less and less. At the front I should note that I fully agree that MK has the right to make his own decisions; this is his forum, his money, and that certainly entitles him to make what decisions he will, no matter how unpopular. That he has allowed a thread like this to exist (which contains "loving dissent," if you will) shows how tolerant and big of a man he is.

I understand that there is a legitimate and perhaps inevitable concern with vendors flooding the Lounge in the wake of the first edition of Classic Style coming out. That being said, I'm not sure why the vendors who have been here for months and months should be punished for the possible sins of future members. I've been a member since May, and can honestly say that I don't remember seeing any of our vendors abusing the forum and using it as a place to simply look for customers. In fact, most of the promotion of particular vendors has come from forum members who are not vendors - people post pictures of hats purchased from vendors, recommend the services of these same vendors to new members, etc. These posts have drawn my attention to certain vendors more than the inclusion of a link in the signature line ever could. Word of mouth is more powerful than any targeted advertisement.

I would also note that by having links removed, regular members have been denied a valuable resource. Because these vendors are also members of the Lounge, I would feel completely safe trusting their advice as well as their products. I am much less likely to trust new vendors who are allowed to identify themselves with a link, simply because I know that they are here because they paid up, and thus likely have marketing in mind. (Why else would they pay?) Previously, I would have given my trust implicitly to vendors like Fedora simply because they seemed to be here out of a love of their trade, and a desire to help those of us who know virtually nothing of the hat-making world. It was a great boon to be able to search the archives, find a thread on point, and somewhere to find a post by a vendor who I felt that I could trust with an easy way (i.e., a hyperlink) of further investigating their business and learning about their services.

But, in the end, my biggest question is why our longstanding vendors are being punished for something they haven't done - that is, use and abuse the Lounge as a place to further their own business interests.

As rationale for this decision, it was noted that there are vendors here who are benefitting financially from the Lounge but not giving money back. I would like to suggest that these same vendors will benefit from the existence of the Lounge regardless of whether or not they are allowed a link in their signature, or indeed whether or not they remain members. Unless I'm very much mistaken, individual members will still be allowed to recommend other members to vendors that they have patronized themselves. Members will still post pictures of their new hats, and these will necessarily draw others' attention to the vendor who sold it, regardless of whether or not that vendor is a member of the Lounge. Moreover, PMs will allow members to recommend vendors to those who ask.

If we follow the reasoning that vendors who benefit from the Lounge should be helping to pay for upkeep, then I think it's safe to say that eBay owes the Lounge quite a bit of money.

 

[Johnnysan]

Well stated, Samsa...

This is a one of a kind forum with a varied scope of contributors. The Hat industry has been dieing for a long time-let's not kill it any quicker if we can help it.

This may be one of the more poignant comments in this thread. I still support the idea that vendors be directed to the merchants section if they wish to showcase their goods and services, but I have found the links in signature lines to be helpful and unobtrusive. It seems to me that that the potential loss of many valuable and contributing members of this community is a high price to pay for what many of us consider a small matter.

That being said, I haven't invested any of my time, talent or money in creating, building or maintaing the Lounge, so in the end, I'll defer to the man who has. My only hope that is in the process of evolution, we don't lose those traits that have made the Lounge such a unique and respectful forum for the exchange of information the likes of which cannot be found elsewhere on the Web.

Mark one more vote for links in signatures. Clicking on it is our choice, and a convenience.

IF I were to have a vote, I agree.

 

[scotrace]

Editor's Note

The two hatter's "Farewell" threads have been merged into one. Both contained excellent information and debate, as well as good points from MK.

 

[rick5150]

It seems all relative. Wasn't this web forum started as a place to initially go when COW went down so that people could continue to correspond? That is how I remember it, anyways...

If the FL was just starting, all with any creedence would be (and were) welcomed, until they proved they were not worthy by posting in a manner that runs contrary to the rules and regulations of the forum. A fedora vendor at a site named the Fedora Lounge that has a section devoted to hats seems like an extremely valuable asset - one that you think would be encouraged.

The way I see it is that there are those here that were here when gaining a member base was very helpful. They gave their time and knowledge to this site for free, when they could have been elsewhere - and that in turn helped make the Fedora Lounge what it is. Once it gets where it is, they cannot be "rewarded" with a simple link if they have a business?! Not to say that MK's hard work and money have not been the driving force, but it is a team effort.

I run the worst forum in the world, but the most important thing to me is the members, not who is making what. Maybe if I had a lot of them, things would be different, but it is the members who bring more members. Word of mouth rules.

What makes the paying advertisers stand out is obvious. They can be quickly accessed due to the banners at the top of the page.

My two cents...

 

[Canadave]

The two hatter's "Farewell" threads have been merged into one. Both contained excellent information and debate, as well as good points from MK.

Was it absolutely necessary to merge them? Now the email notification links we get from the previous thread don't work. I thought the thread was removed.

David

 

[Vermifuge]

I run the worst forum in the world, but the most important thing to me is the members, not who is making what. Maybe if I had a lot of them, things would be different, but it is the members who bring more members. Word of mouth rules.

What makes the paying advertisers stand out is obvious. They can be quickly accessed due to the banners at the top of the page.

My two cents...

I agree. I happen to work on and administer one of the largest message boards on the internet (not a social network) And our number one focus is the community and keeping them happy.

The way I look at it Advertising and spam go hand in hand. If I was being solicited in a way I thought was in my face I would put an end to it immediately. That would include making forum threads with the sole purpose of directing traffic to another entity.

But we have never had a problem with members providing links in the signature as long as the thread subject and or posts were on topic. (even if it were to a competitive site / product) But that is only our policy.

 

[scotrace]

Was it absolutely necessary to merge them? Now the email notification links we get from the previous thread don't work. I thought the thread was removed.

David

Yes.
Sorry for the inconvenience (truly). You may have to redo those.
It was re-animated and inserted into this one.

 

[farnham54]

I've re-read the thread, and re-thought a lot of things. I apologize if any of the vendors felt put out by my earlier post.

Our vendors are extremely valuable to us, like many here have said. I think, in exchange for the information, that a URL in the sig is not that much to ask--they are, after all, volunteering their years of aquiring knowledge.

That's not to say I completley recant what I said earlier; I don't want this place to become a flea market, as MK put it, at all. And, with Classic Style going far and wide, it's definatley a possibility that we'd get those very bad e-bay type vendors here, and that would definatley ruin the place.

However, can't another compromise be reached? For example, extending folks "bar credit" for their contributions? I can't recall Fedora ever explicitly selling his gear; yet he always contributed a great deal of information. Couldn't this information be weighed by the Man in Charge and they be credited accordingly?

I know we may have a problem with spammers later, but if thats the case, the Bartenders can show 'em the door. And like any club, when it gets busy, get more 'tenders--I see this as a mutual solution.

Vendors who contribute stay, and get the minor advertisement, folks who flog stuff without contributing go. Easy as pie.

Cheers
Craig

 

[ideaguy]

Thank you, MK, for remaining professional and steadfast throughout this
public laundry-airing. Thank you for steering us forward-steady-and acknowledging the perils around the members that choose to remember
that you're the captain of this vessel, and your years in the publishing
business have given you the acumen needed to insure smooth sailing, despite
a slightly motley crew with nice hats. You're the "go-to" guy; if more of us
would remember that, I'm sure your job would be easier. Each one of us
has a responsibility to abide by the rules spelled out at the beginning.
Thank you, MK for producing a fine website that allows so many disparate
characters a clean, well lighted place. If I can help-call on me; gotta give back
some of the help given to me, free,without caveats, just because.

Thanks.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Perfectly said

Thank you, MK, for remaining professional and steadfast throughout this
public laundry-airing. Thank you for steering us forward-steady-and acknowledging the perils around the members that choose to remember
that you're the captain of this vessel, and your years in the publishing
business have given you the acumen needed to insure smooth sailing, despite
a slightly motley crew with nice hats. You're the "go-to" guy; if more of us
would remember that, I'm sure your job would be easier. Each one of us
has a responsibility to abide by the rules spelled out at the beginning.
Thank you, MK for producing a fine website that allows so many disparate
characters a clean, well lighted place. If I can help-call on me; gotta give back
some of the help given to me, free,without caveats, just because.

Thanks.

Couldn't have put it better.

 

[MK]

.

A lot has been said. Some has been useful. Some has been strange, but most all could have been avoided.

It is my belief that all this ruckus is not due to my policy....but in the way I communicated it. My PMs to a few companies were done at 2AM. They were very brief, which I now see were read as....if not rude at least were taken as I didn't value these members. I regret not waiting until the next day and being more eloquent in my words. I have to take responsibility for that.

The policy stands, but I appologize for the way I communicated to those members. It is my desire that all members here be treated with respect. It wasn't that I didn't respect them...but they perceived it as such. Respect for fellow members is one of the cornerstones to the Fedora Lounge and has been the standard by which most things are measured here.

 

[MK]

.

I want to clear up a few things that have been said. Some have implied that hat makers are in another class here....and you hat makers is why the joint exists. Not true. All members will receive respect regardless if they make hats or not. How a member conducts themselves is what makes them valued. An absolute beginner with no knowledge of hats can be a great member and an expert with 50 years of hat making experience can be a terrible member.

Sharing our love and passion for hats....and all the other aspects of the golden era, is what this place is about. If all you want is advice on how to fix your fedora, you can call or e-mail one of these companies. I created the Fedora Lounge as a community for people to share their common interest is classy topics, not a tech support forum.

The point is no one is to get special treatment.....or perhaps it is better said that everyone here is to get treated well.

 

[clevispin]

MK

I particularly like the "tech" aspect of the forum threads. Perhaps the QM martini crowd thinks differently.

m

 

[Marc Chevalier]

. Perhaps the QM martini crowd thinks differently.

Thanks for that, Clevispin! Wickedly clever. My next signature will be: "Proud member of the QM Martini Crowd since 2006."


.

 

[Tomasso]

I go to a lunch meeting in town and come back and find all this. It is amazing how twisted things get with speculation.

I think that it's incumbent upon the party that's disseminating weighty information to be readily available for the onslaught of inquires that is sure to follow. That said, Wall Street firms are notorious for releasing bad news on Friday afternoon.

 

[clevispin]

Marc Chevalier, Esq., OBE, QMMC

regards

m

 

[scotrace]

There's no finer bunch of people than the QM Martini Crowd.