"Mad Men" on AMC (US) - (Spoilers Within)

[GoldenEraFan]

I felt last nights episode was rather dull, felt almost like it was just filler.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

It was very interesting insight on Don, and an interesting episode, in general.

I was really surprised, as I always felt that Don cared for his kids and it was his redeeming quality. Guess I kinda misread that one.

Last night's episode was a great one. Don's drunken monologue about his children was one of the most telling things we've learned about him thus far. Pete became more likable. Betty became more unlikable.

 

[tonyb]

I found Don's disclosure about his adjustment to fatherhood rather touching, and daring on the writers' part. He said that there came a time when he actually felt those emotions he was essentially play-acting theretofore. Few people would ever acknowledge such a thing about themselves even to themselves, let alone to anyone else.

Pete? Still a self-serving little twerp. He attempted using the King assassination as a wedge back into Trudy's life. She didn't fall for it. And he used it to jump on Harry, but that was really more about Pete's frustration with his own situation than anything Harry actually said. Witness Harry's acknowledgement, after Bert Cooper's intercession, that his comments were inappropriate. But that wasn't good enough for Pete. Nope. Pete wants to win, no matter how much he has to stretch the truth, or what posture he has to assume, in achieving that "victory." Note also that Harry extended his hand first. And he was the only one to offer anything by way of apology or concession. None of that from Pete.

It all leaves me feeling sorry for any Pete Campbells out there in the real world. If the choice was between that name and, say, Charles Manson, a guy would have to give it some serious thought.

 

[Worf]

It all leaves me feeling sorry for any Pete Campbells out there in the real world. If the choice was between that name and, say, Charles Manson, a guy would have to give it some serious thought.

You REALLY want to say that? Manson and his cronies killed/butchered people for chits and giggles. Pete... as disgusting as he his, has not killed anyone that we know of. Society, once we moved beyond hunter/gatherer and began to congregate in cities, has always produced twerps like Pete. The character "Flashman" comes to mind. They can't create, they can't fight (remember the last time Pete tried to "throw down") and spend most of their lives alternating between bootlicking and backstabbing. The business world is rife with Petes... but in the end, unless they're combat officers, nobody dies from dealing with guy's OR GIRLS like Pete. So while I agree with most of the things you say... I find the last one a bit of a "reach".

Worf

 

[tonyb]

Perhaps that tongue in my cheek wasn't quite visible, Worf.

 

[Worf]

Perhaps that tongue in my cheek wasn't quite visible, Worf.

Nope... couldn't see it, but my visiion is going south the older I git. If that part was meant is jest... my apologies... The internet doesn't always lend itself to "subtle humor". And considering some of things people are more than willing to say without consequnce on the web, you never know who's serious and who isn't.

Worf

 

[tonyb]

I can dig that, man. Between the trolls and the blowhards on their soapboxes, well, sometimes it's hard to hear over all that noise.

 

[Heather]

Yeah, Betty is back to being the old Betty we so loved not to love.

And no, Heather, Carroll O'Connor's son Hugh fatally shot himself. He had a history of drug addiction, and it was determined he had cocaine in his system at the time of his suicide.

I'm not advocating anyone take LSD, but it isn't the sort of drug people are inclined to take habitually. The rare person did, I'm sure, but most people who took it knew to treat it with circumspection. Unlike most commonly abused drugs -- alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, cocaine, even opiates -- LSD renders a person all but unable to function with any semblance of normalcy and effectiveness while under its influence. Nobody would drop acid at lunch, for instance, and go back to work. No reasonable person, anyway. (But, come to think of it, I've known some unreasonable people, or, more accurately, people who've done unreasonable things.)

Thanks for clarifying that tony!

I starter to gain a wee bit of respect for Pete but now that its been pointed out how it was self serving, I've lost it. I should've picked up on that...I don't call him "the weasel" for nothing!

 

[AmateisGal]

Last night's episode was a great one. Don's drunken monologue about his children was one of the most telling things we've learned about him thus far. Pete became more likable. Betty became more unlikable.

Agreed. I really liked it, the best episode so far this season.

 

[tonyb]

My hope for the Pete character is that Trudy will leave him with little choice but to change. His old tricks just won't do anymore. Before she'll let him within a mile of her he'll have to offer more than his word, which, as we've seen, isn't worth squat.

Perhaps there's a touch of the Pete in all of us, which is about all that makes him sympathetic, not in the sense that we like him, but that we can relate to him on some level, even if it is an uncomfortable perspective to take. Everybody has something to teach us, even if it's only how not to be.

I happen to be related to a person who has been so full of baloney for so long that I sometimes wonder if he even recognizes his own BS anymore. (A common joke about him is "Q: How can you tell if (this person) is lying? A: His lips are moving.") His deceptions and distortions and outright prevarications have done considerable damage to many people in his life, but he is truly the most victimized by his lying ways. A life built on lies is no kind of life at all. Pity is, I don't know that he knows what it has cost him. Not to have at least some people's trust is a terrible thing.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I think they've done a remarkable job with Pete: I mostly hate him - sometimes really HATE him... but sometimes I have sympathy for him.

I mean, Trudy is practically the nicest character on the show, and she's always seen something in him. For all his ego and entitlement, he's the most forward looking and open minded of the characters that go back to 1960. Last season, I was very moved by his final scenes with Beth after her electroshock treatment. He's a paragon of sensitivity compared to Harry. And even though it's absolutely his own fault, I can't help but feel for him now that he's in the doghouse.

There's a new post on this very subject up at Basket of Kisses:

http://www.lippsisters.com/2013/04/30/the-pete-campbell-dilemma/

And I also thought this was the best episode so far this season.

 

[The Good]

My hope for the Pete character is that Trudy will leave him with little choice but to change. His old tricks just won't do anymore. Before she'll let him within a mile of her he'll have to offer more than his word, which, as we've seen, isn't worth squat.

Perhaps there's a touch of the Pete in all of us, which is about all that makes him sympathetic, not in the sense that we like him, but that we can relate to him on some level, even if it is an uncomfortable perspective to take. Everybody has something to teach us, even if it's only how not to be.

I happen to be related to a person who has been so full of baloney for so long that I sometimes wonder if he even recognizes his own BS anymore. (A common joke about him is "Q: How can you tell if (this person) is lying? A: His lips are moving.") His deceptions and distortions and outright prevarications have done considerable damage to many people in his life, but he is truly the most victimized by his lying ways. A life built on lies is no kind of life at all. Pity is, I don't know that he knows what it has cost him. Not to have at least some people's trust is a terrible thing.

I think they've done a remarkable job with Pete: I mostly hate him - sometimes really HATE him... but sometimes I have sympathy for him.

My idea is that Pete Campbell is both an unlikeable fool, and an occasionally sympathetic character. Most of the main characters could be that way; Don, Roger, Joan, Peggy, and so on. Some characters on the show I really like right now are Megan, Ken, and Michael. I've always respected Bert, and he seems to often be a sagely voice of reason. Stan's a funny guy, kind of likable too. Harry is more comparable to Pete, in my opinion.

I'm enjoying this season so far, but I really wish that they kept Don faithful to his new wife Megan. I would rather have seen the last few seasons be about Don becoming a "good guy," rather than return to blatant adultery when Megan's not looking. For some reason, I don't understand the hatred many viewers have toward Megan as well. I think she's an admirable character, and can't recall things I absolutely detested about her. Whether I like all these characters or not, I appreciate the fact that most of them are interesting in their own ways.

 

[tonyb]

Peggy's real estate agent must have real estate agents everywhere cringing.

 

[Worf]

It was an interesting episode because... like the Kennedy killing before it, I'd lived through that day in real time. The funny juxtaposition was/is that when Kennedy was killed I was in an all-black, segregated school. When King was killed, I was being bussed cross town to an all-white one. Being literally from another world I wondered how other's took King's murder. When Kennedy was killed I viewed it almost in abstract because I was so young. By the time of King's death I'd lived through Malcom's assassination and had come to view the words "we interrupt your regularly scheduled program" with great dread.

Worf

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://www.esquire.com/_mobile/blogs/culture/mad-men-death-images

 

[Bruce Wayne]

One word: Camaro

 

[AmateisGal]

Actually, Bruce, I think it was the Vega or the Nova, according to some articles I read. But I am not sure.

Anyway!

Perfect episode. From the music to the story lines...everything was so well done. And thank goodness I didn't have to see Don with Silvia again. Here's hoping they will move far, far away.

I definitely didn't see the merger coming...the writing on this show is incredible.

 

[tonyb]

One word: Camaro

Yes, of course, the hints all point in that direction, but ...

The Camaro was introduced in 1966 for the 1967 model year, while our Mad Men world is now in spring of 1968, and this all-new, "youthful," Mustang-esque car from GM is yet to be unveiled. But then, this is fiction, so departures from historical accuracy are permissible.

 

[tonyb]

Actually, Bruce, I think it was the Vega or the Nova, according to some articles I read. But I am not sure.

Anyway!

Perfect episode. From the music to the story lines...everything was so well done. And thank goodness I didn't have to see Don with Silvia again. Here's hoping they will move far, far away.

I definitely didn't see the merger coming...the writing on this show is incredible.

The Vega. Hmmm, that thought had crossed my mind as well, considering the timing and all, and what a disaster that car turned out to be (20/20 hindsight and all). But it was a novel offering at the time, what with the American manufacturers just getting into what have come to be called sub-compacts (in a sub-satisfactory way, in many cases, the Vega notably among them).

I liked the styling of the Vega quite a bit, and I've seen some hotrods built with Vega bodies that turned out quite nice. And I believe they sold well early in the production run. But shortly thereafter they had a reputation for being rattly and rust-prone and for engine overheating, which tended to warp those aluminum blocks. Or so it was widely reported.

 

[Young fogey]

Season 6 so far

Thoughts so far.

Don't go away, golden era. Was sad when Don stopped wearing the hat.

At least they're smart enough not to romanticize the hippies. And only the creatives are hippying out. The '60s weren't the Sixties. They were mostly a continuation of the '50s. But we're right at the point when it started to change, complete by around 1973.

Sylvia's hot and at heart not a bad person even though this affair's reprehensible (adultery squared and betraying a friend, and a nice guy too). Archetypal Bad Catholic (as opposed to devout ones). This is standard romance-novel (porn for women) stuff: the girl, the bad boy, and the nice guy she doesn't want and feels guilty about it (but she uses him for his money).

’68 fashion flatters Peggy.

Betty's still beautiful.

Joan's body and '50s fashion are made for each other; the late '60s doesn't work on her. But of course she's still ferally sexy, and scarily icy at work when that's needed. (I love the Johnnie Walker commercial.)

Trudy and Megan are the nicest main characters. Blameless.

Finally, Bobby Draper gets a little story line.

Pete's well written and acted. A bad guy but with a few good qualities, trying to be badass and never pulling it off (his angry face looks silly, losing the fight to Lane, falling down the stairs when chewing out Don, who deserved it).

Joan was right to fire that secretary but way to go, Harry! And way to go, Joan, for telling off Don after what she went through (even though she profited from it).

Don's a sociopath. Women watch because they want him. An anti-hero. The SWPLs pretend to cheer for Peggy but wish they were Megan or Sylvia; doesn't matter which.

I could have sworn the new car is the Camaro. Thanks for the history. Yeah, it could be the Vega.