"Mad Men" on AMC (US) - (Spoilers Within)

[AtomicEraTom]

I thought the same thing, but they would have been out already.

One word: Camaro

The Nova had been out since I think the '62 Model Year. Chevy Vega is right on the money, came out for the '70 Model Year, so they'd be out on the showroom floors by '69. Boy, are the ad men gonna be disappointed with that car lol

Actually, Bruce, I think it was the Vega or the Nova, according to some articles I read. But I am not sure.

The merger almost knocked me out of my chair.

 

[tonyb]

Lessee -- Bert and Pete and Joan work up a plan for a public offering without bringing Don and Roger into the conversation, while Don takes it upon himself to tell Herb the Jaguar jerk to perform anatomically challenging acts upon his own person, and Roger jets off to Detroit to court Chevrolet, without telling anyone, of course. Oh, and Pete makes his own inadvertent (but thoroughly Pete Campbell) contribution to screwing up the cash flow in advance of the public offering, which is now apparently postponed.

Marie trash talks Herb's insufferable bore of a wife. (Poetic -- ain't it? -- that such an insufferable boor would be married to such an insufferable bore? Restores one's faith in cosmic justice.) But she does it in French, just to keep herself from exploding.

And then Don conspires with the competition to tie their fortunes together, without telling any of his partners, naturally. Lots of that sort of thing going on.

And let's not forget Pete blowing up at Don on the stairs (stuntman!), with no regard to how foolish it is to do such a thing in front of the entire staff and whoever else might be present. Impulse control problems. Lots of that sort of thing going on, too.

 

[Kirk H.]

Lessee -- Bert and Pete and Joan work up a plan for a public offering without bringing Don and Roger into the conversation, while Don takes it upon himself to tell Herb the Jaguar jerk to perform anatomically challenging acts upon his own person, and Roger jets off to Detroit to court Chevrolet, without telling anyone, of course. Oh, and Pete makes his own inadvertent (but thoroughly Pete Campbell) contribution to screwing up the cash flow in advance of the public offering, which is now apparently postponed.

Marie trash talks Herb's insufferable bore of a wife. (Poetic -- ain't it? -- that such an insufferable boor would be married to such an insufferable bore? Restores one's faith in cosmic justice.) But she does it in French, just to keep herself from exploding.

And then Don conspires with the competition to tie their fortunes together, without telling any of his partners, naturally. Lots of that sort of thing going on.

And let's not forget Pete blowing up at Don on the stairs (stuntman!), with no regard to how foolish it is to do such a thing in front of the entire staff and whoever else might be present. Impulse control problems. Lots of that sort of thing going on, too.

That about sums it up...but don't forget Joan going off on Don in the conference room after Pete's blow up in front of everyone.

 

[tonyb]

Yeah, I'm thinking the writers were doing a couple of things with that Joan-getting-bent-at-Don scene ...

1.) She was on the verge of being a millionaire (in 1968, mind you, when a million bucks was an almost unfathomable sum for mere mortals), and anything to endanger that is certain to upset a person. It surely would me, and ...

2.) Don wouldn't allow Herb to do to him figuratively what Joan allowed literally. I can see how Joan might see Don's telling Herb to go p*ss up a rope as rubbing her nose in her own behavior. Remember, also, that Don wanted nothing to with Pete's pimping of Joan, and how Pete actively misled his partners to that end.

And does Pete not recall who ponied up "his" 50 grand that each partner was to put into the operation?

 

[Kirk H.]

All good points.

 

[Lily Powers]

Yeah, I'm thinking the writers were doing a couple of things with that Joan-getting-bent-at-Don scene ...

1.) She was on the verge of being a millionaire (in 1968, mind you, when a million bucks was an almost unfathomable sum for mere mortals), and anything to endanger that is certain to upset a person. It surely would me, and ...

She also felt comfortable and rather powerful in her newly-earned position as partner, but like she said last week, she's still being treated like a secretary. The promise of money by an excited "we-can't-lose" Pete could certainly entice her, but I could also see her losing out on it somehow.

2.) Don wouldn't allow Herb to do to him figuratively what Joan allowed literally. I can see how Joan might see Don's telling Herb to go p*ss up a rope as rubbing her nose in her own behavior. Remember, also, that Don wanted nothing to with Pete's pimping of Joan, and how Pete actively misled his partners to that end.

Like it or not for Joan, there is no undoing what she and the Jag man did. I thought (perhaps hoped) that Don's walking away from the man, his sense of entitlement and his account was almost a (chivalrous) slap in Herb's face for Joan - what Herb insinuated and wanted, what Pete considered and ultimately proposed to Joan and what Joan did; Don was never on board with that scheme either and told Joan as much, even implored her not to do it, but it was too late (in a very good episode, btw).

And does Pete not recall who ponied up "his" 50 grand that each partner was to put into the operation?

Of course Pete doesn't recall - his mind is awfully busy with putting on airs, paying women to do the horizontal hustle, trying to bluster his way into being powerful and ratting off his father-in-law for also partaking in paid-for female pleasures. Pete's character is one I love to hate.

 

[Worf]

One word: Camaro

Camaro was in the lobby behind the StingRay if I'm not mistaken... can't be that one... Must be the Vega (what a POS THAT was!)

Worf

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I thought it was a Chevelle behind the 'Vette, but now I'm questioning myself.

Camaro was in the lobby behind the StingRay if I'm not mistaken... can't be that one... Must be the Vega (what a POS THAT was!)

Worf

 

[tonyb]

How 'bout that scene with Marie on the sofa back at the Draper pad, after that dinner with the Jaguar Jerk of New Jersey and his lovely Jerkess?

Swilling wine straight from the bottle, trying to ignore the thumps of cascading table lamps and such emanating from her daughter's bedroom, hanging up on Roger.

And her motherly advice to Megan earlier on the day? Made the poor girl blush!

 

[Young fogey]

Are Megan's parents, or at least her mother, from France and happen to live in Canada where she was born and raised? I picked that up from when Arnold walked in. Seems to explain their accents and their attitudes, which sound continental to me, not Quebec.

 

[Zemke Fan]

Best episode of the season. Worth the wait? An aberration?

 

[tonyb]

Best episode of the season. Worth the wait? An aberration?

Indeed. And let's hope it's the former.

That show (and its characters) sometimes seems like an old acquaintance, one known to have done many laudable things, but who at times behaves in ways you really wish (s)he wouldn't.

 

[AmateisGal]

Another so-so episode for me. Don is becoming more reprehensible by the minute. But then, when he said, "Please" to Silvia, you almost feel sorry for him. Great acting on Jon Hamm's part. There's a scared little boy in there and he revealed it perfectly in that scene.

I rather like Ted. The plane scene was hilarious.

 

[tonyb]

Gotta look at your instruments. Wouldn't want to land that thing upside down.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I felt it was kinda blah, too.

I was surprised what a small part of the episode that Bobby Kennedy's death was.

Interesting that there was the 'Don's Death' dream. Perhaps another indicator of how the series will end?

Another so-so episode for me. Don is becoming more reprehensible by the minute. But then, when he said, "Please" to Silvia, you almost feel sorry for him. Great acting on Jon Hamm's part. There's a scared little boy in there and he revealed it perfectly in that scene.

I rather like Ted. The plane scene was hilarious.

 

[Fading Fast]

I'm coming to the view that by this season every character on the show has evolved to being not only angry, bitter, self-indulgent, out only for themselves and mean, but also, petty, insecure and scared. Peter is, by my definition, the quintessential Mad Men character: he not only has all of these traits, but he exposes them (quite visibly) in all their ugliness in almost in everything he does. Peggy does a pretty good job of showing these traits out loud as well. Even characters who start out decent, like Don's new wife, get sucked into the angry / ugly Mad Men character development vortex as she has gone from being a seemingly nice, well-adjusted, young women to, now, being a shrill, insecure, angry, emotionally immature women (thus, just an ordinary character on Mad Men). Roger, Joan, Betty (they'll have to invent a new, more extreme, term for self-centered just for her) all fit into this characterization. Don, in earlier years, used to be more interesting when he was flawed, but you felt there was good in him trying to get out - now, as ImateisGal says - he's all but reprehensible, I don't really care about his character anymore.

 

[Young fogey]

I'm coming to the view that by this season every character on the show has evolved to being not only angry, bitter, self-indulgent, out only for themselves and mean, but also, petty, insecure and scared. Peter is, by my definition, the quintessential Mad Men character: he not only has all of these traits, but he exposes them (quite visibly) in all their ugliness in almost in everything he does. Peggy does a pretty good job of showing these traits out loud as well. Even characters who start out decent, like Don's new wife, get sucked into the angry / ugly Mad Men character development vortex as she has gone from being a seemingly nice, well-adjusted, young women to, now, being a shrill, insecure, angry, emotionally immature women (thus, just an ordinary character on Mad Men). Roger, Joan, Betty (they'll have to invent a new, more extreme, term for self-centered just for her) all fit into this characterization. Don, in earlier years, used to be more interesting when he was flawed, but you felt there was good in him trying to get out - now, as ImateisGal says - he's all but reprehensible, I don't really care about his character anymore.

Well put.

I'm glad the Big Historical Event didn't swamp the story last episode. Just like it didn't personally affect most people. That said, people who remember told me of Bobby Kennedy's funeral train going slowly through greater Philadelphia and people lining the tracks crying. It was like President Kennedy's death.

Megan is still one of the only good people among the major characters. Trudy and Ken Cosgrove are others. Megan just has flaws. She's done nothing wrong and is now a victim of Don's cheating.

Last episode tears it: this show, namely Don, is porn for women. I thought the earlier episodes with Sylvia were sexy, because I think Sylvia is. This not so much - Don's games aren't my thing - but what strikes me is Sylvia chooses to stay and play along. My guess is lots of women, including these viewers, would. Makes me wonder if Matthew Weiner reads Roissy or other writers on pickups and game, the politically incorrect truth about the sexes. Again, Don's a sociopath. (The point: women want a smidge of that.) But he's always been an antihero. Yes, he's getting worse. But as long as he's just a hypocrite, as long as he doesn't buy into the Sixties' new morality as a principle, I'll at least sort of like him.

That episode got the mix about right: sex, cutthroat office politics, and, last, Big Historical Event.

 

[Young fogey]

I'm coming to the view that by this season every character on the show has evolved to being not only angry, bitter, self-indulgent, out only for themselves and mean, but also, petty, insecure and scared. Peter is, by my definition, the quintessential Mad Men character: he not only has all of these traits, but he exposes them (quite visibly) in all their ugliness in almost in everything he does. Peggy does a pretty good job of showing these traits out loud as well. Even characters who start out decent, like Don's new wife, get sucked into the angry / ugly Mad Men character development vortex as she has gone from being a seemingly nice, well-adjusted, young women to, now, being a shrill, insecure, angry, emotionally immature women (thus, just an ordinary character on Mad Men). Roger, Joan, Betty (they'll have to invent a new, more extreme, term for self-centered just for her) all fit into this characterization. Don, in earlier years, used to be more interesting when he was flawed, but you felt there was good in him trying to get out - now, as ImateisGal says - he's all but reprehensible, I don't really care about his character anymore.

Well put.

I'm glad the Big Historical Event didn't swamp the story last episode. Just like it didn't personally affect most people. That said, people who remember told me of Bobby Kennedy's funeral train going slowly through greater Philadelphia and people lining the tracks crying. It was like President Kennedy's death.

Megan is still one of the only good people among the major characters. Trudy and Ken Cosgrove are others. Megan just has flaws. She's done nothing wrong and is now a victim of Don's cheating.

Last episode tears it: this show, namely Don, is porn for women. I thought the earlier episodes with Sylvia were sexy, because I think Sylvia is. This not so much - Don's games aren't my thing - but what strikes me is Sylvia chooses to stay and play along. My guess is lots of women, including these viewers, would. Makes me wonder if Matthew Weiner reads Roissy or other writers on pickups and game, the politically incorrect truth about the sexes. Again, Don's a sociopath. (The point: women want a smidge of that.) But he's always been an antihero. Yes, he's getting worse. But as long as he's just a hypocrite, as long as he doesn't buy into the Sixties' new morality as a principle, I'll at least sort of like him.

That episode got the mix about right: sex, cutthroat office politics, and, last, Big Historical Event.

 

[Fading Fast]

Young Fogey - good points. And yes, Ken seems like a decent guy, but Trudy has a violent, preternatural temper when she doesn't get her way (not that being married to Pete couldn't bring that out of anyone) and, if memory serves, is pretty manipulative herself. But again, I agree overall - and great point about Don as porn for women.

Don has one thing I greatly admire - his Ayn Rand character like talent in his field. He rises above all others in Creative. In some episodes, they have shown how Don forms his ideas and you watch an embryonic concept develop in his mind until he, with incredible elegance, springs it on his team or a client as a fully formed idea that almost takes advertising to an art form. His ability to see how a mundane product fits into current culture and human nature and how best to use the tools of advertising - words and images - to evoke the right response is impressive. While others seem to hack away at being creative and, even the good ones, seem to go through an agonizing struggle to come up with an idea - Don's process is Zen like; he - as opposed to those others - seems relaxed and happy when he is working on an idea by himself.

 

[AmateisGal]

I'm coming to the view that by this season every character on the show has evolved to being not only angry, bitter, self-indulgent, out only for themselves and mean, but also, petty, insecure and scared. Peter is, by my definition, the quintessential Mad Men character: he not only has all of these traits, but he exposes them (quite visibly) in all their ugliness in almost in everything he does. Peggy does a pretty good job of showing these traits out loud as well. Even characters who start out decent, like Don's new wife, get sucked into the angry / ugly Mad Men character development vortex as she has gone from being a seemingly nice, well-adjusted, young women to, now, being a shrill, insecure, angry, emotionally immature women (thus, just an ordinary character on Mad Men). Roger, Joan, Betty (they'll have to invent a new, more extreme, term for self-centered just for her) all fit into this characterization. Don, in earlier years, used to be more interesting when he was flawed, but you felt there was good in him trying to get out - now, as ImateisGal says - he's all but reprehensible, I don't really care about his character anymore.

I agree with all of your points. While I used to like Peggy, even she is paling for me now. She's becoming too much like Don, even if she will never admit it.

I've seen some women commenting on Facebook and other places that Don is still hot and sexy, no matter what he does. Uh, I disagree completely. The whole control game he played with Silvia made me loathe him, and I was going to really hate Silvia if she kept going along with it. I'm surprised she went along with it as long as she did, especially considering she has no problem telling off her husband.