"Mad Men" on AMC (US) - (Spoilers Within)

[AmateisGal]

I noticed something else last night - smiles. When Pete turns away from Joan after delivering that "news", he has an evil grin. When Peggy turns from looking at the office to the elevator, she has a smile. And there was one other instance , too, where the person looks away and smiles, and now I can't remember it...

 

[dandelion-vint]

I wondered if Joan thought that Peggy was leaving because she was now a partner. I think that Peggy is going to have a hard time at the new agency, she's going to have to prove herself all over again.

 

[Gene]

I wondered if Joan thought that Peggy was leaving because she was now a partner. I think that Peggy is going to have a hard time at the new agency, she's going to have to prove herself all over again.

I could see that going the other way too and the apprentice becoming the master...that would great to see her become Don's arch rival!

 

[AmateisGal]

I could see that going the other way too and the apprentice becoming the master...that would great to see her become Don's arch rival!

Ooh. It would!

 

[fortworthgal]

I've felt like this season has been moving so slowly, and then WHAM! Sunday's episode almost moved too quickly to follow. I can't believe all that happened, and can't imagine SCDP minus Peggy!

 

[rue]

All I have to say after watching this week's show is.... wow.

 

[C-dot]

All I have to say after watching this week's show is.... wow.

You can always tell its getting close to the end of the season when stuff starts happening!

I really hope we don't have to wait 18 months again... Nope, I expect Mad Men Season 6 next September, front and centre.

 

[dandelion-vint]

I could see that going the other way too and the apprentice becoming the master...that would great to see her become Don's arch rival!

Oh yes, I hadn't thought of that - Don and Peggy showing up to pitch ads from rival agencies, trying to win over new clients.

 

[flat-top]

I just finally watched Sunday's episode......I'm speechless. Certainly one of the best episodes of the entire series.
Nothing else on TV even comes CLOSE to Mad Men.

 

[Barbigirl]

Tonight's episode was devastating. Not only the Joan/Don stuff but the Peggy/Don scene just about did me in. I've never seen a more moving hand kiss!

What, oh what do the next two weeks hold in store? I'm not sure I can take it!

Seen moments ago, auuugghh that hand kiss....I was in tears.

And thank you everyone who is discussing specifically the content and character actions.
I enjoy watching the show because it entertains me and the debate regarding whether it is accurate or reality of the era or morally degrading to our historical perception is a mute point. I think that topic is completely subjective for every individual.

 

[AmateisGal]

Elizabeth Moss (Peggy) said in the video recap of the episode that she didn't know they were going to do that - Don taking her hand and kissing it - so she said it was a VERY hard scene to play and that her tears were real.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Re September, I don't think next season will air until at least the end of the year - they haven't begun writing it yet. But at least it won't be another 15 months!

There's so much think about and discuss from this episode, but here are just a couple of things that have occurred to me as I've been letting it sink in:

Joan's plot arc - Given the pond-scum morality of the SC/SCDP partners as exemplified throughout the series, there's every reason to believe that Joan has accommodated important clients before, especially in the pre-1960 timeframe that we've only seen in a couple of brief flashbacks. And Joan herself has used her allure as a tool (and continually advised Peggy to learn how to) all along. What I'm getting at is that this is a level of "self-abasement" that she's surely experienced before, though perhaps it's been several years ago by 1967... but let's not also forget how horribly she's been abused by her own husband! Yes, she's got more responsibility and maturity by this point, and she doesn't HAVE to do this sort of thing. But one last time, for a partnership and the status and vastly increased income it will provide, is a deal with the devil that she's willing to accept. That the partners, apart from Don, encourage her to go through with it is indeed a shock to our modern sensibilites, but this was just part of doing business for these men in that particular place and time. An ugly part, surely, but they accepted it. (Even Roger, who loves her... which is the one thing that rings false, particularly given his newfound sensitivity.)

Peggy's plot arc - By all rights, Peggy should have been offered a junior partnership of her own by now, much less be considered a falling star in the face of talented-but-loose-canon Ginsberg. And despite all that Don has gone through with her and all his promises, he has continued to take her for granted while distracted by his new wife and everything else. Peggy MUST leave SCDP to grow, or at least find out if she can succeed more in a different environment. That she's going to CGC and will be a direct rival to Don is most unfortunate for their trying to maintain their deep connection, and it will surely be an important source of drama going forward. But Peggy is far more forward-looking than Don (who may have taken most of that opening-credits fall in the first half of last season, but is only now hanging on by his fingertips as THE SIXTIES comes roaring in like a tidal wave), and she is poised to go where he cannot. Whether she ends up returning to SCDP later, or ends up running her own agency and hiring our other beloved characters, this is HER time. (My prediction: she will spend some time at CGC - which we will see in cutaways - but will eventually return to the fold... in a much stronger position.)

This episode, like all the best MM episodes, worked so well because it brought to the foreground material that's been playing at background level since the first season. The dialectic between Joan and Peggy, and their different methodologies - getting ahead on sex appeal manipulation vs. creativity and toughness - was there since the pilot. Don's hypocritical personal code regarding respect for women has always been there: remember when he shut down those guys talking trash in the elevator and forcibly removing one's hat because there was a woman present? It makes sense that he'd try and prevent Joan (someone he respects and admires enormously) from sullying herself, even though his own rampant sexuality has been a constant cause of difficulties for him. Remember, beneath that veneer he's still "whore child" Dick Whitman...

An(other) incredible episode of an incredible series!

 

[Worf]

Soooo this leads me to a question that's probably gonna get me brained by a brick and shot at from all directions.

Which of the three female protagonists of the show do female F.L. (or male if you've a desire to answer) see themselves as?

Joan - The sadder but wiser femme fetale that has used what she's got to get what she wants since she sprouted at age 9?

Peggy - Smart, bright, ambitious and slightly repressed. Not graced with Joan's attributes but she never let herself be pimped either!

Megan - The 20 something Ying to Don's Yang. The "modern" woman who refuses to be defined or constrained by her husband's idea of what's expected or right.

Just Curious...

Worf

 

[rue]

Soooo this leads me to a question that's probably gonna get me brained by a brick and shot at from all directions.

Which of the three female protagonists of the show do female F.L. (or male if you've a desire to answer) see themselves as?

Joan - The sadder but wiser femme fetale that has used what she's got to get what she wants since she sprouted at age 9?

Peggy - Smart, bright, ambitious and slightly repressed. Not graced with Joan's attributes but she never let herself be pimped either!

Megan - The 20 something Ying to Don's Yang. The "modern" woman who refuses to be defined or constrained by her husband's idea of what's expected or right.

Just Curious...

Worf

I can honestly say.... not one of them.

 

[AmateisGal]

I can honestly say.... not one of them.

Well, I like certain aspects of each one - but if I *had* to choose one, I'd say I'm most like Peggy.

 

[Worf]

Whoops left one out!

The Frost Queen - Don's first wife... you like your martinis dirty like your mind, you like your Darvon's high (10's) and your men rich. You hate your mom, and you hate your daughter and you sure as f**k hate that pretty b**ch with the perfect yabbo's your ex is a-bangin. Pass me another piece of fried chicken will ya I got's children to torure!

Worf

 

[Worf]

Hey before you blast me the men on the show are EVEN WORSE!!!!!

Worf

 

[AmateisGal]

I don't like Betty at all. But what I do like about the characters is that none of them are flawless - yet we can identify with them and indeed, even care about them (although it's a stretch with Pete for me...). That is the mark of good writing.

 

[Doctor Strange]

You know, I recently rewatched the first four seasons with my sister (a newbie) - in a very compressed, five- or six-week period. (It was intense!) One of the things that really struck me was what a sympathetic character Betty was for the first couple of years. Yes, she was always a bit frosty and a spoiled brat, but she didn't become actively nasty - and cruel to Sally - until it was clear that her marriage to Don was in deep trouble during the third season.

After walking around saying "What a bitch!" about Betty after each new offense for years, I now find that revisiting the earlier seasons has made me much more sympathetic to her. Oh, she's still done plenty of horrible things, but she's such an unhappy mess herself that I can't hate her. She's so self-destructive that I don't have to.

Of course, Sally's probably going to need decades in therapy...

 

[Zemke Fan]

Dr. S. My wife and I have been watching three or four a night continuously on Netflix. Talk about intense (but addictive)!