LUFTWAFFE jackets - Eagles who Dare to Wear..!

[Steve S.]

I made this one recently for a customer who just ordered another one in black goatskin.

 

[rocketeer]

Is that the new one from the same team as Iron Sky?



Hadn't spotted that, no. Presumably it's a marketing thing, as I have heard people here and there over the years say they liked the jacket, but wouldn't wear one with the label Luftwaffe. (Mostly folks outside Germany, of course, given that Luftwaffe is simply the German generic term for "Air Force", and has been in use since (West) Germany was allowed an air force again post WW2, from, if memory serves, 1956.

The Film Nazi's at the centre of the Earth looks like a low budget sci fi in the vein of They Saved Hitlers Brain type thing. Basically Teenage scientists on a trip to Antarctica discover an entrance to a secret underground laboratory where Hitler body and brain has been kept in some kind of suspended animation waiting for the right moment to unleash him back into the world.
The laboratory is so secret that the kids find it by brushing away some snow to reveal a large swastika flag as the entrance to the bunker/lab.
Another good film if you can look at the funny side of WWII is Dead Snow 1-2. Long dead Nazi's are awakened by Teenagers(again) messing about in an old log cabin. Awakening the long lost SS soldiers they now have to fight off Zombie Nazies determined to get back their(The nazi's) stolen gold.
Can you really get a better combination than Nazi's and Zombies, well maybe Nuns and Zombies?

Do you remember this grey modern Luftwaffe gloves with the nylon lining that were once at al the militaria shows? When I described these to a German girl friend she was a bit shocked, and that is what they were sold as at the time, 'Luftwaffe gloves, £5 pair'

You are correct, Edward, and we have heard similar over the years about the name and the eagle. It's a good jacket style that always did have a place in the offerings, but it seems the younger the market gets, the more bothered they are with this sort of thing. This is based solely on what we've heard from potential buyers, which is surprising to the extent that a younger audience (maybe one so young they can't afford the jacket quite yet) often comes up fully in the dark about most anything from WWII, and "Luftwaffe" and its related eagle would likely not even register with them. But once they read the website content and get what the jacket represents, then they may not want something that is related to the era of the Third Reich.

Beyond this speculation, it was indeed a marketing move that was founded on information and a belief more would sell if the label changed. Sales certainly were better for this style in past years than the present, which could have nothing to do with the label, but ELC and HPA think it well could.

The Eastman pages describes the Ostermann jacket as revamped, has it been altered as the rear view does not clearly show the pleats in the back but the side view of the buckles the pleats are there again. So basically, pleats are still there or redesigned without.
Thanks, J

 

[Edward]

Beyond this speculation, it was indeed a marketing move that was founded on information and a belief more would sell if the label changed. Sales certainly were better for this style in past years than the present, which could have nothing to do with the label, but ELC and HPA think it well could.

Makes perfect sense to me. Quite contrary to what I think one might reasonably expect, as the WW2 generation dies out and we get more distance from the war, Third Recih symbols and issues are becoming ever more controversial. I've seen people who weren't alive until decades after the war take greater offence at a swastika than people who lived through the Blitz. Either way, it's a lvoely jacket and deserves the best marketing it can have.

The Film Nazi's at the centre of the Earth looks like a low budget sci fi in the vein of They Saved Hitlers Brain type thing. Basically Teenage scientists on a trip to Antarctica discover an entrance to a secret underground laboratory where Hitler body and brain has been kept in some kind of suspended animation waiting for the right moment to unleash him back into the world.
The laboratory is so secret that the kids find it by brushing away some snow to reveal a large swastika flag as the entrance to the bunker/lab.

That sounds amazing.

Another good film if you can look at the funny side of WWII is Dead Snow 1-2. Long dead Nazi's are awakened by Teenagers(again) messing about in an old log cabin. Awakening the long lost SS soldiers they now have to fight off Zombie Nazies determined to get back their(The nazi's) stolen gold.
Can you really get a better combination than Nazi's and Zombies, well maybe Nuns and Zombies?

Nazi zombies that go after and dismember those damned Von Trapps would be great!

I've seen Dead Snow many times, cracking film. Picked up the sequel a while ago, but not yet had the chance to watch it... Looking forward to sitting down with it over Christmas. Dear old Zombie Lake was always a bit ropey, but you have to love it for kicking off the whole Nazi-zombie subgenre.

Do you remember this grey modern Luftwaffe gloves with the nylon lining that were once at al the militaria shows? When I described these to a German girl friend she was a bit shocked, and that is what they were sold as at the time, 'Luftwaffe gloves, £5 pair'

Oh, yes. Always wanted a pair, but for some reason never got around to buying them. (I do have a lovely black pair somewhere, new repro bought in Silvermans for about £20 a few years ago, really nice.) I remember those being everywhere.... those, and the Luftwaffe dress jacket, that modern one in a marine blue with the silver and gold embroidery. I remember a bit of a vogue for some surplus places trying to suggest by omission that they were Nazi era (that sort of thing was always popular among a hardcore element of Loyalism in Northern Ireland back in the day).

 

[rocketeer]

Makes perfect sense to me. Quite contrary to what I think one might reasonably expect, as the WW2 generation dies out and we get more distance from the war, Third Recih symbols and issues are becoming ever more controversial. I've seen people who weren't alive until decades after the war take greater offence at a swastika than people who lived through the Blitz. Either way, it's a lvoely jacket and deserves the best marketing it can have.

I have one done as a British 1960s style bike jacket though I cut the nipple tassels off the zips.

One day in the not too distant future Nazi memorabilia will be welcomed as a legitimate collectable to discuss, by that I mean all the concentration camp stuff and that sort of thing banned on eBay etc. Just give it a couple of hundred years when everything has passed from living memory to history, otherwise it may be a case of teaching kids 'Well we know all about the holocaust and what the prisoners lives were like but how did their captors dress and live'
I recently visited General Franco of Spain's tomb, not because I am a fascist but because it is history and to be honest quite spectacular to look at, yet the Spaniards have all but obliterated anything associated with him. And don't forget, where would we be without Franco introducing us to Sun Sea and Sangria as well as topless sunbathing in Benidorm etc.(But we digress)

sounds amazing.

It is, you may catch it on Horror Chanel as thats where I saw it

Nazi zombies that go after and dismember those damned Von Trapps would be great!

One reason we, and probably the Americans as well are so easy on having a laugh about the Nazi era is that we were never invaded. Possibly not so funny if the SS rumble into town and start shooting your relatives because the 'think' they may be partisans. Anyone know what the French reaction to our 'Allo Allo' tv comedy is?

I've seen Dead Snow many times, cracking film. Picked up the sequel a while ago, but not yet had the chance to watch it... Looking forward to sitting down with it over Christmas. Dear old Zombie Lake was always a bit ropey, but you have to love it for kicking off the whole Nazi-zombie subgenre.

Me too, I also have Robo Geisha somewhere

I remember those being everywhere.... those, and the Luftwaffe dress jacket, that modern one in a marine blue with the silver and gold embroidery. I remember a bit of a vogue for some surplus places trying to suggest by omission that they were Nazi era (that sort of thing was always popular among a hardcore element of Loyalism in Northern Ireland back in the day).

I remember those and are still available today at a lot of militaria events. One thing I have never seen is a Black and Tan re enactment group, still a touchy subject I believe.
Here's something I loved as a kid

Cheers, a great conversation

 

[Edward]

I have one done as a British 1960s style bike jacket though I cut the nipple tassels off the zips.

There's a certain stylistic commonality there - it's easy to see why the makers of Battle of Britain opted for the Lewis Dominator for the Luftwaffe boys... I've always wondered how direct the influence of styles was. Not so much the Nazi link (though a lot of pop culture notions of "What the Nazis wore" were established by the film industry in the early 1960s), but the European cycle jackets generally, even if British makers like Lewis did have very much their own spin on it.

One day in the not too distant future Nazi memorabilia will be welcomed as a legitimate collectable to discuss, by that I mean all the concentration camp stuff and that sort of thing banned on eBay etc. Just give it a couple of hundred years when everything has passed from living memory to history, otherwise it may be a case of teaching kids 'Well we know all about the holocaust and what the prisoners lives were like but how did their captors dress and live'

It's certainly a subject which needs to be approached with delicacy to avoid bad taste, butg yes, I think you're right.... There probably will come a time when enough years have passed that at least some Nazi stuff doesn't have quite the same emotive power as it does for those of us whose lives have crossed with those for whom it was a living memory. That said, thoug,h it might not be a guaranteed thing that the 'fade factor' will apply here. Certainly I've seen some terribly extreme reinterpretations of the first world war take hold here and there as those who lived through it are no longer around to present the uncomfortable truth. Who knows what jingoism, unrestricted by the voice of experience, will see happen.

I recently visited General Franco of Spain's tomb, not because I am a fascist but because it is history and to be honest quite spectacular to look at, yet the Spaniards have all but obliterated anything associated with him. And don't forget, where would we be without Franco introducing us to Sun Sea and Sangria as well as topless sunbathing in Benidorm etc.(But we digress)

Having grown up in Northern Ireland at the height of the modern "Troubles", I tend to think I have some insight into being part of a nation with shameful elements in our past. I can understand the urge of some to "delete" these things - especially where the long-victorious side seeks to wipe out the memory of what it sees as the defeated evil. I'm wary, though. Back in 1949, when the Ireland Act 1948 finally came into force and the UK state finally recognised the "Irish Free State" as the de facto sovereign republic it had more or less been in practice for some time by this point, no less a person than Eamon de Valera, one of the only two Eastrer Rsiing Leaders non executed in its wake, survivor of the Civil War (having fought on the losing, anti-Treaty side), was one of the loudest voices opposing the removal of things like the statue of Queen Victoria from the front of the Dail. He argued tht removing these things did not obliterate the past, and that they should remain as a reminder of the country's history, and how far it had come. I think that's an interesting viewpoint... it was certainly in my mind when I watched all those old Soviet memorials being pulled down in the nineties, and I can see that being applied elsewhere to some degree. Communist China has done much to preserve many important relics of its Imperial past, which is a good thing. I'm no monarchist myself, but the Forbidden City is an incredible cultural site, and really is worth preserving; ditto places like the Summer Palace.

It is, you may catch it on Horror Chanel as thats where I saw it

Definitely gonig to look out for that!

One reason we, and probably the Americans as well are so easy on having a laugh about the Nazi era is that we were never invaded. Possibly not so funny if the SS rumble into town and start shooting your relatives because the 'think' they may be partisans. Anyone know what the French reaction to our 'Allo Allo' tv comedy is?

I'm sure there is some record of that somewhere: I remember reading back in the late eighties that there was a dubbed version broadcast in France (presumably they came up with their own version of the linguistic jokes in the original soundtrack). Interestingly, I don't think you could get away with making Allo Allo in the UK today.... yet in tone, it's really very close to what I've seen of elements of wartime humour. You know, that very British / English sensibility of using laughter to disempower your enemy (or at least to keep civilian morale up, important as that was with the constant threat of invasion). The US does have rather more distance too, not having faced the same credible threat of invasion as did Britain, though for all that there were still 400,000 US lives lost, which must have impacted on quite a few communities. Living in England now, I'm very aware of my own relative lack of connection to WW2 as compared to my contemporaries. Most folks I know here have fragments of stories (the common thread being how little it was talked about) of what their Grandfathers did in the War. Not the same for kids in Northern Ireland, where (for obvious reasons) we didn't have conscription, thus significantly fewer veterans of the WW2 campaign.

I remember those and are still available today at a lot of militaria events. One thing I have never seen is a Black and Tan re enactment group, still a touchy subject I believe.

Well, only in the same way as prancing through parts of North London dressed as an SS Kommandant.... That's how it would be universally seen in the Republic; in the Six Counties you'd get the sad spectacle of half the population seeing it that way, while much of the other half rushed to make a show of celebrating them as heroes. Plus ca change....

There is a small but growing re-enactment scene in the Republic which covers both sides of the 1916-23 period; I've seen photos of people portraying Royal Irish Constabulary and British soldiers during the 1919-1921 War of Independence (aka The Tan War), but not as of yet the Black and Tans. To put it crudely (without seeking to draw any objective, historical parallels), I should think the difference in reaction there would be much the same as the difference between turning up at an English WW2 event dressed as Heer or SS....

Here's something I loved as a kid

Something gloriously Mad Max about that! I love the skeletons. Reminds me of something that might be used in Secrets of the Third Reich (Westwind games; it's a tabletop wargame in the 'Weird War 2' genre.... essentially WW2 still being fought in 1949, but with vampires, werewolves and zombies involved.....).

Cheers, a great conversation

Likewise!

 

[Bolero]

The German Nazi's were Depraved Monsters...their Luffwaffe killed, strafed thousands and thousands of innocent Women and Children over Poland, Holland, Eastern Europe.....
Why would anyone of sound mind want to Glamorize them by wearing their clothes...

 

[Sloan1874]

Has anyone caught The Man in the High Castle on Amazon yet? Essentially a 'what if?' spin, with the Nazis winning the war by dropping an A-bomb on Washington. It's pretty good, I binged the whole thing over three evenings, but it still seems to hit a nerve: Amazon rolled an ad campaign that saw a Nazi take on the Stars and Stripes emblazoned across the seats on New York's underground. It lasted barely a week before public reaction forced them to withdraw it.

 

[CBI]

I wish JC at Good Wear would make a Luftwaffe model!!!!!

Yes, Sloan, The Man in the High Castle was excellent. Loved the overall look/vibe of the film.

 

[rocketeer]

The German Nazi's were Depraved Monsters...their Luffwaffe killed, strafed thousands and thousands of innocent Women and Children over Poland, Holland, Eastern Europe.....
Why would anyone of sound mind want to Glamorize them by wearing their clothes...

Well the Americans didn't do too bad at My Lai in Vietnam but it's ok to do Vietnam war reenactments, The British bombed civilians in Dresden and Hamburg yet we all, well a lot anyway, love the Avro Lancaster flypast. Thats just two but I'm sure there are more allied atrocities.
Not all Germans were Nazi's were they. And Churchill was not all sweetness and light either was he.

 

[Bolero]

Well the Americans didn't do too bad at My Lai in Vietnam but it's ok to do Vietnam war reenactments, The British bombed civilians in Dresden and Hamburg yet we all, well a lot anyway, love the Avro Lancaster flypast. Thats just two but I'm sure there are more allied atrocities.
Not all Germans were Nazi's were they. And Churchill was not all sweetness and light either was he.

Why would anyone of sound mind try to Justify Nazi German atrocity's of WWII ???
Unfortunately some folks just do not Recognize or Comprehend the Totality of Nazi Germany of WWII...SAD

 

[rocketeer]

Not trying to justify Nazi atrocities, just those dressing up as various groups that have not exactly been a shining light of goodness and probably more things going on pre WWII thats all.
Anyone fancy getting this back on topic? Luftwaffe style jackets?

 

[Bolero]

Not trying to justify Nazi atrocities, just those dressing up as various groups that have not exactly been a shining light of goodness and probably more things going on pre WWII thats all.
Anyone fancy getting this back on topic? Luftwaffe style jackets?

OK... My last remark on this subject

I just don't understand why someone would want to dress up like a WWII Nazi...and then brag on it...or say Hey, I'm cool,Look at me...Bunch of Frickin Sicko's

 

[tropicalbob]

Why don't we organize a 1930's French bicycling re-enactment? Start at Aix-en-Provence, say, and wind up at Cassis? I get a bit winded walking out to my car, so I'll hold the table at Cassis. I'll be the one in the Luft...er...bicycling jacket.

 

[rocketeer]

Why don't we organize a 1930's French bicycling re-enactment? Start at Aix-en-Provence, say, and wind up at Cassis? I get a bit winded walking out to my car, so I'll hold the table at Cassis. I'll be the one in the Luft...er...bicycling jacket.

Ok so it's you in black leather jacket and cargo pants, me in the Irvin and matching trousers. I bag the modern carbon Tour replica 'caus my gear is heavier but you can have the old pre war Peugeot because you are more dedicated

 

[rocketeer]

OK... My last remark on this subject

I just don't understand why someone would want to dress up like a WWII Nazi...and then brag on it...or say Hey, I'm cool,Look at me...Bunch of Frickin Sicko's

I actually agree with you on this point when applied to some reenactment members I have met. (No one on here as far as I am aware)
Shall we say subject closed?

 

[Trenchfriend]

In Germany, no one is really walking around with the long black leather-trenchcoats or greatcoats.

And why should I choose such heavyweight leather, when priceworth mixed massmarket-gabardine is available?

 

[rocketeer]

In Germany, no one is really walking around with the long black leather-trenchcoats or greatcoats.

And why should I choose such heavyweight leather, when priceworth mixed massmarket-gabardine is available?

I didn't think the Herr Flick look would be that popular. I'm off to Trier in a couple of weeks, just to deliver some furniture mind. May wear my Teamster with a wool fedora. For Germany is the brim snapped up at the back or all left down?
Thanks, J

 

[Trenchfriend]

Normally germans wear classic Fedoras with the brim typical snapped up at the back. Or the classic traveller-hats with brim all down.

 

[rocketeer]

Normally germans wear classic Fedoras with the brim typical snapped up at the back. Or the classic traveller-hats with brim all down.

Thats really interesting, why traveller hat? That is the look I will probably go with as this is not a 'Classic' fur felt style but the heavier wool.
Sorry mods, I 'll take this to the Hat topics if necessary, but this is my only hat question.
Cheers, J.

 

[Trenchfriend]

@rocketeer

It's because, in Germany, these well-made massmarket-traveller-(felt)hats ("crushable/waterproof"/probably imported) are available at all regular clothing-stores, for friendly 50 EUR. It's not special, than good Fedoras. Every guy or lady, who likes one, can go to the next Karstadt, etc., and grab one, in black, grey, hazelnut, blueish and so on. Same on Trilbys.