Lost Worlds CHP HorseHide Jacket

[photo2u]

Hi guys

I'm posting here, you all have a lot of Lost W. I'm on the edge to order a new jacket from Stu, but during the years reading about him and searching on his website a purchase felt redundant from Europe were I live at the moment.

Everyone knows at this point his jackets are bulletproof and need few years just to break them in order to by comfortable. Owning 1 now, j23 and bought a buco Ryder that's on the way from Japan.

I never ordered a new one from him, but I have an issue with one I have here with me.

His stock zippers are the weak point, that's easy to fix but costly nevertheless, with crown nos option.

Whatever personally have another huge issue and I want an upgrade if order a brand new jacket and paying 2-3k GBP from UK. Never anybody complained about it or at this time am afraid if I'm starting my negotiation with Stu about it I might have no jacket from him... that would be a blasphemy to mention after reading his description on the website about durability and high skilled machinists.

His bonded nylon tread isn't thick enough for the leather he use 4-oz.

Leather thickness, machine type, needle size, preferred stitch appearance and any specific strength requirements might be followed but I prefer my jacket to hold more than 20-years. This one it's before 2010 and already had to fix it myself because in high tension points where the leather it's thick thread snapped, annoying and hate to punch this nice leather because everything else it's spot on. I'm attaching photos to see the difference between my vanson 1970 cross zip and his j23 jacket.



The thread in vanson it's I would say double thickness and have already 50 years and it's going strong, no issues at all, and this in LW looks clean and small holes, more like a Japanese work but weak nevertheless.

Now I'm wondering what is the largest thread size his machine/machinist can use?

I don't care if stiching won't be so neat and thight and having small holes in the leathers. Nylon thread anyway stretch the leather in long term and holes get larger by time passing, that my son would decide with these jackets



He would accept to take in consideration to upgrade that, I don't care if need to pay more but I don't want anymore to have to repair these beautiful jackets, special a new one.



Left the belt with 4 stitches it's vanson

Other j23 belt

Noticeable in vanson the thickness of 50 years thread compared with what Stu used in j23.


Any thoughts about it?
Please help

Friend, I am going to agree with you regarding your observations. I would ask him if he can do bonded nylon Tex 138 in your project. That is a strong tread for extra heavy duty jackets. Personally, I love that Tex 138 in most projects. You know, Some collectors do not pay attention to some very crucial aspects in leather garments. First, I must point out that I am not a big fan of cotton thread. I prefer bonded nylon mainly do to the improvements in strength,durability and other factors that make makes bonded nylon a superior thread material over cotton. Having some limited experience using heavy duty threads in my four industrial sewing machines, (consew 223r,206 rb2, 225 and singer industrial 31-15) I also restore and collect about 8 30s to 60s period heavy duty singer machines. The problem with some industrial machines is the way they handle heavy thread Tex 138 and up. Most have difficulties. I truly do not know which machines Stu uses but I think he uses perhaps the Juki LU 563 due to it's reputation and quality for the leather garment industry. An old friend brought to me his new 563. He was having problem with his Juki using Tex 138 all around. After a good tune up I suggested he uses Tex 138 at the top and Tex 90 at the bottom (bobbin). He was able to utilize this combo very well in his upholstery production. Lastly, It is time consuming adjusting thread thickness when routinely changing the different types of thread sizes on the the machines. I believe that is one of the reasons Stu sticks with an easy to work thread. The old Vansons are hard to beat in just about all of the important aspects of leather jacket production. For the price, Stu still makes a very good product that will last a very long time. My oldest LW jacket is about 28 years? My oldest vanson is around 50 years. Both will be around a lot longer than me. LOL.

 

[JMax]

Never had issues with LW stitching. Seems bulletproof to me and I don’t baby any of the jackets. Agree some zips they use are no bueno for the application. I’ve had issues there.

 

[Canuck Panda]

LW jackets stitching style is the same as the other niche repro makers I have, GW, FW...etc. The stitch length is short and stitch tension is high. So it creates a buried look.

Vanson jackets stitching style is different. The stitch length is slightly longer and the stitch tension is comparatively lower. The look is straight dashed line floating on top no buried.

Of course the type of thread matters. But I've never had stitching failure on any of my jackets regardless of the stitch methods. There will be lose thread ends but that's about it mostly around the shoulder seams where there are stacks of leather but only the top stitches are affected. I also don't drag my jacket on the road. I know some will say small stitches are better or bigger stitches are better. But for me it is just aesthetics.

NOS zipper is a gamble. YKK has not failed me, yet...

 

[Will Zach]

LW thread or stitching are not the hill I would die on.

If you are in a failure prevention state of mind, focus on the zipper. NOS Crown, while quite expensive, is so reliable, cool and rare, that I, a card-carrying cheapskate, would not hesitate to spend major coin on.

 

[Margi92i]

Thanks all for the replies. I definitely update the zippers, at least the main zipper, all zippers update set me north to 700$, and we know with that money you can buy a good jacket on this forum.

Thinking or speed demon or Appalachian, want them both but yeah, cost a lot.

I mention the zippers because in my point of view after handle the jacket it's the best constructed I own and give you the peace it can handle everything you throw to it but the regular zippers can be beefier, but same experience had with all Japanese Repro-- Universal repro or talon etc.
I prefer vintage one.

Need tho a thicker thread in a new one 100%
I've had already to secure the seams with strong thread under sleeve and side hem where leather were stack and just snapped, can be seen in photos.
if not fixed that would have been an expensive repair later or have to send it to
someone professional to do it .
that's the fact with it, also the jacket haven't been on the road, most of the last 5-10 years spent in the closet of previous owner.
If Stu can take a thicker thread sure the jacket would be a still here in 100 years from now, in pristine condition, it's that good.

 

[Margi92i]

Friend, I am going to agree with you regarding your observations. I would ask him if he can do bonded nylon Tex 138 in your project. That is a strong tread for extra heavy duty jacket. Personally, I love that Tex 138 in most project. You know, Some collectors do not pay attention to some very crucial aspects in leather garments. First, I must point out that I am not a big fan of cotton thread. I prefer bonded nylon mainly do to the improvements in strength,durability and other factors that make makes bonded nylon a superior thread material over cotton. Having some limited experience using heavy duty threads in my four industrial sewing machines, (consew 223r,206 rb2, 225 and singer industrial 31-15) I also restore and collect about 8 30s to 60s period heavy duty singer machines. The problem with some industrial machines is the way they handle heavy thread Tex 138 and up. Most have difficulties. I truly do not know which machines Stu uses but I think he uses perhaps the Juki LU 563 due to its reputation and quality for the leather garment industry. An old friend brought to me his new 563. He was having problem with his Juki using Tex 138 all around. After a good tune up I suggested he uses Tex at the top and Tex 90 at the bottom (bobbin). He was able to utilize this combo very well in his upholstery production. Lastly, It is time consuming adjusting thread thickness when routinely changing the different types of thread sizes on the the machines. I believe that is one of the reasons Stu sticks with an easy to work thread. The old Vansons are hard to beat in just about all of the important aspects of leather jacket production. For the price, Stu still makes a very good product that will last a very long time. My oldest LW jacket is about 28 years? My oldest vanson is around 50 years. Both will be around a lot longer than me. LOL

Could send him a few roles of Kevlar thread I buy off eBay - mind you kevlar will just cut through the leather instead of snapping when tension is high!

Hi, thanks for suggestion, you sent him Kevlar thread and he sewed the jacket with that?

 

[Monitor]

Thanks all for the replies. I definitely update the zippers, at least the main zipper, all zippers update set me north to 700$, and we know with that money you can buy a good jacket on this forum.

Thinking or speed demon or Appalachian, want them both but yeah, cost a lot.

I mention the zippers because in my point of view after handle the jacket it's the best constructed I own and give you the peace it can handle everything you throw to it but the regular zippers can be beefier, but same experience had with all Japanese Repro-- Universal repro or talon etc.
I prefer vintage one.

Need tho a thicker thread in a new one 100%
I've had already to secure the seams with strong thread under sleeve and side hem where leather were stack and just snapped, can be seen in photos.
if not fixed that would have been an expensive repair later or have to send it to
someone professional to do it .
that's the fact with it, also the jacket haven't been on the road, most of the last 5-10 years spent in the closet of previous owner.
If Stu can take a thicker thread sure the jacket would be a still here in 100 years from now, in pristine condition, it's that good.

You're obsessing over nothing here and are making your life difficult for no reason. Not to mention the money you're wasting.

50 years old, budget leather jackets from Pakistan that have worn daily on a motorcycle, are holding up just fine so there's really no need to worry about a leather jacket by a maker that's on the level of the Lost Worlds.

No amount of tension can break nylon thread that the LW is currently working with. The primary factor that determines how long your leather jacket is neither how you use it nor what it has been made of - It's the climate.

The thread on an old Buco is made from cotton and that's infinitely weaker than anything nylon.

 

[Margi92i]

Friend, I am going to agree with you regarding your observations. I would ask him if he can do bonded nylon Tex 138 in your project. That is a strong tread for extra heavy duty jackets. Personally, I love that Tex 138 in most projects. You know, Some collectors do not pay attention to some very crucial aspects in leather garments. First, I must point out that I am not a big fan of cotton thread. I prefer bonded nylon mainly do to the improvements in strength,durability and other factors that make makes bonded nylon a superior thread material over cotton. Having some limited experience using heavy duty threads in my four industrial sewing machines, (consew 223r,206 rb2, 225 and singer industrial 31-15) I also restore and collect about 8 30s to 60s period heavy duty singer machines. The problem with some industrial machines is the way they handle heavy thread Tex 138 and up. Most have difficulties. I truly do not know which machines Stu uses but I think he uses perhaps the Juki LU 563 due to it's reputation and quality for the leather garment industry. An old friend brought to me his new 563. He was having problem with his Juki using Tex 138 all around. After a good tune up I suggested he uses Tex at the top and Tex 90 at the bottom (bobbin). He was able to utilize this combo very well in his upholstery production. Lastly, It is time consuming adjusting thread thickness when routinely changing the different types of thread sizes on the the machines. I believe that is one of the reasons Stu sticks with an easy to work thread. The old Vansons are hard to beat in just about all of the important aspects of leather jacket production. For the price, Stu still makes a very good product that will last a very long time. My oldest LW jacket is about 28 years? My oldest vanson is around 50 years. Both will be around a lot longer than me. LOL.

Thanks for your advice, a lot of knowledge here, if he can take my project with Tex 138, that would be a significant improvement.
Ordered to have Tex for small repairs and definitely it's a solit thread

 

[Margi92i]

You're obsessing over nothing here and are making your life difficult for no reason. Not to mention the money you're wasting.

50 years old, budget leather jackets from Pakistan that have worn daily on a motorcycle, are holding up just fine so there's really no need to worry about a leather jacket by a maker that's on the level of the Lost Worlds.

No amount of tension can break nylon thread that the LW is currently working with. The primary factor that determines how long your leather jacket is neither how you use it nor what it has been made of - It's the climate.

The thread on an old Buco is made from cotton and that's infinitely weaker than anything nylon.

Well it happened for me twice and I don't like it
this jacket was in UK, rain rain rain, but it's almost not broken in, the previous owner did not wear it a lot for sure.

You suggesting a cheaper jacket instead?
Thanks

 

[photo2u]

Personally, I would say you are fine with the thread Stu uses. However, I would love to see his jackets in 138 tex. Why not if possible? The problem I would see is the technician properly tuning the machine to accommodate the bigger thread. Regarding zippers, in the long run zippers will fail. However, none spring zippers last a little longer. Yes, talon and others have springs on them. Riri makes the strongest #10 zip I have ever seen. The Soviets used to make a good reproduction of the RiRi zips. I take an all conmar zipper built over an all crown built. Conmar are way strong and will suit a 4.5+ Oz. jacket. For something less heavy there are many choices to choose from.
looking forward to see what you decide to do!

 

[NamoAmituofo]

Hi, thanks for suggestion, you sent him Kevlar thread and he sewed the jacket with that?

I meant it as a joke - sorry I’m not very good at telling jokes .

I belong to a Japanese jiujitsu club/dojo, and we are all asked to sew some stupid club badges onto our Gi shoulders - where it gets grappled and twisted the most! The stupidity of these traditions… it takes less than 10 training sessions for these badges to be ripped off and out with our sewing kit again (or for the lucky few of us just ask the missus - not for me though!)

So I bought some Kevlar threads - man it’s been 3 years and my oldest Gi is about to be torn to threads but hey the badges are still like they were sewn on yesterday! I even said to people be careful with grabbing the area with my badges - you risk ripping open your fingers - it’s Kevlar thread!

 

[Margi92i]

Personally, I would say you are fine with the thread Stu uses. However, I would love to see his jackets in 138 tex. Why not if possible? The problem I would see is the technician properly tuning the machine to accommodate the bigger thread. Regarding zippers, in the long run zippers will fail. However, none spring zippers last a little longer. Yes, talon and others have springs on them. Riri makes the strongest #10 zip I have ever seen. The Soviets used to make a good reproduction of the RiRi zips. I take an all conmar zipper built over an all crown built. Conmar are way strong and will suit a 4.5+ Oz. jacket. For something less heavy there are many choices to choose from.
looking forward to see what you decide to do!

Personally, I would say you are fine with the thread Stu uses. However, I would love to see his jackets in 138 tex. Why not if possible? The problem I would see is the technician properly tuning the machine to accommodate the bigger thread. Regarding zippers, in the long run zippers will fail. However, none spring zippers last a little longer. Yes, talon and others have springs on them. Riri makes the strongest #10 zip I have ever seen. The Soviets used to make a good reproduction of the RiRi zips. I take an all conmar zipper built over an all crown built. Conmar are way strong and will suit a 4.5+ Oz. jacket. For something less heavy there are many choices to choose from.
looking forward to see what you decide to do!

I didn't know is possible to choose another zippers from him

I meant it as a joke - sorry I’m not very good at telling jokes .

I belong to a Japanese jiujitsu club/dojo, and we are all asked to sew some stupid club badges onto our Gi shoulders - where it gets grappled and twisted the most! The stupidity of these traditions… it takes less than 10 training sessions for these badges to be ripped off and out with our sewing kit again (or for the lucky few of us just ask the missus - not for me though!)

So I bought some Kevlar threads - man it’s been 3 years and my oldest Gi is about to be torn to threads but hey the badges are still like they were sewn on yesterday! I even said to people be careful with grabbing the area with my badges - you risk ripping open your fingers - it’s Kevlar thread!

Haha, fair enough, got you know!