Looking for a new Cafe Racer, what am I missing?

[ButteMT61]

From doing a lot of reading on leathers for motorcycle riding, i think the main advantage of kangaroo is the fact that it can be very thin while still offering protection.
I have a pair of Held Phantom racing gloves, they are made of roo, the palm is so thin, flexible and soft it really feels like you aren't wearing anything.
Still, they have been crash tested by loads of riders without rubbing through, and are considered some of the best gloves around.
There is no way you could have such a thin palm in anything made out of goat, deer, cow, without losing protection.

If you really want abrasion resistance, go for stingray, it is the most resistant hide there is, it's 5 times stronger than kangaroo.
It would look weird on a jacket though...

The last time I went down (1991) I had a pair of Ku****ani 'Roo gloves which were like ladies dress gloves in comfort (don't ask) and took the brunt of the fall/slide I had. Sure, there were double layers and studs in the palms, but they took a lot of abuse in that slide and saved my hand(s). The Hein Gerrick heavy cow also did it's thing as did the ARAI lid. Walked away, bike was totaled.

Not scientific, just my bad day on Mulholland Drive...

 

[navetsea]

My next leather jacket will be made from Honey Badger hide.

PG, that's crazy cool jacket and finally something different! I love it. No shoulder gussets?

if you look at the pattern, cut on the shoulder from the front picture, you can see that the shoulder holes to mount the sleeves are seriusly facing forward, while more casual CR has shoulder hole facing to the sides so you still have more relaxed posture even when fully zipped up, in this I think it will have a tight chest and you'll be carrying your arms a little bit on the front when fully zipped, just like guys in racer suit posture, but since normally the jacket worn open off the bike then it won't matter. however it would be more difficult to wear on, after one arm in then finding the other sleeve is a bit less easy than other jackets, especially if tailored for a snug fit.

PG, since you delete the chest pocket, don't you feel the upper part of the jacket a bit too plain compared to the bottom part?
I love the kidney panel

 

[pawineguy]

if you look at the pattern, cut on the shoulder from the front picture, you can see that the shoulder holes to mount the sleeves are seriusly facing forward, while more casual CR has shoulder hole facing to the sides so you still have more relaxed posture even when fully zipped up, in this I think it will have a tight chest and you'll be carrying your arms a little bit on the front when fully zipped, just like guys in racer suit posture, but since normally the jacket worn open off the bike then it won't matter. however it would be more difficult to wear on, after one arm in then finding the other sleeve is a bit less easy than other jackets, especially if tailored for a snug fit.

PG, since you delete the chest pocket, don't you feel the upper part of the jacket a bit too plain compared to the bottom part?
I love the kidney panel

I think since they design jackets specifically for riding, and the sleeves are rotated forward and pre-curved, I agree that there shouldn't be much problem in riding in the jacket.

As for the pocket, I didn't want to lose the symmetry of the jacket, so I would have had to add another chest pocket, and I felt that would be too much. I want the bottom detail to really be what catches the eye, and keep the rest of the jacket simple to highlight what I hope to be some great looking leather.

I also just found out that I am receiving a denim prototype jacket to my dimensions, so I will be able to confirm everything before the jacket is produced.

 

[Monitor]

if you look at the pattern, cut on the shoulder from the front picture, you can see that the shoulder holes to mount the sleeves are seriusly facing forward, while more casual CR has shoulder hole facing to the sides so you still have more relaxed posture even when fully zipped up, in this I think it will have a tight chest and you'll be carrying your arms a little bit on the front when fully zipped, just like guys in racer suit posture, but since normally the jacket worn open off the bike then it won't matter. however it would be more difficult to wear on, after one arm in then finding the other sleeve is a bit less easy than other jackets, especially if tailored for a snug fit.

Aye, you're 100% right about the sleeves! Didn't notice that, but it looks like that's going to be one serious riding jacket. Though I still like the look of shoulder gussets.

 

[Seb Lucas]

After flip flopping back and forth multiple times, I am ordering a jacket from Cal-Leathers, the Ventura. It's a Cafe Racer with a banded bottom like an LAPD jacket. The difference is the band has no belt loops and NO side laces. (not a fan of those) Big one piece back, and I'm deleting the chest pocket to keep the front clean also. 3.5 oz cow, brown stitching, fur lined cuffs and nickel zips. Finalizing dimensions with them now and waiting for a build date. Pics below of the Ventura, including one showing a dress collar and no chest pocket. (mine will be Mandarin collar with no chest pocket.) I'll update when I find out the build time.

The final decision really came down to this being a unique design while still staying true to what I was looking for in a new jacket that I'd ride in. I like that it's another small company... and I don't mind being a guinea pig of sorts.

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That last one looks like a Schott 585.

 

[Fanch]

I also just found out that I am receiving a denim prototype jacket to my dimensions, so I will be able to confirm everything before the jacket is produced.

Having a fit jacket sent should remove virtually all of the guessing out of the equation. Do you get to keep the denim prototype jacket?

 

[pawineguy]

That last one looks like a Schott 585.

I agree, it seems like this type of design (for Cal, it's a straight zip version of their LAPD jacket) was more prevalent in the 1960s. Cal-Leather apparently called theirs the Cycle Rider and it evolved from there. This is not a perfect shot, they also had variants with the duck tail back.

 

[pawineguy]

Having a fit jacket sent should remove virtually all of the guessing out of the equation. Do you get to keep the denim prototype jacket?

We'll see, I was just so happy to have a prototype made that I didn't even ask.

 

[pawineguy]

Here's a shot of the Cycle Rider.

 

[2wheelgrplr]

Rumor has it Vanson makes Jacket just for your needs: the AR3, an armoured variant of the AR2, based on the homebrew modifications Wes from rideapart.com used (https://rideapart.com/articles/best-motorcycle-leather-jackets-700?page=2).

It exists on Vanons' site (http://www.vansonleathers.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=ar3) but no text or image is to be found... curious.

Living in Europe I shunned from the hunt for such an elusive garment, but maybe someone can shed some light on this issue.

EDIT: interestingly enough, it is available in Germany, though quite expensive. Some pictures as well: http://www.24helmets.de/VANSON-Lederjacke-Motorrad-schwarz-AR3-mit-Protektoren

I have a customised version of the Vanson AR3. Ordered it last Summer as soon as I heard about it. Vanson had it featured on the front page of their site for a little bit, then they took it down and never featured it in any other page. It's pretty much the Model A with a zipper down the centre of the back lining, unzip that and you can attach the elbow, shoulder and back pads to velcro sections attached to the inside of the leather. You have to fiddle a bit to get the pads correctly placed.

I liked what I got but wasn't too keen on the Model-A's wide, long shoulder gusset (batwings). Returned it to Vanson, but they contacted me saying they could do a custom version with smaller shoulder gusset, similar to the Model-B, for minimal additional cost. I said, sure, and also asked them to add "America" stripes on sleeve and chest. Some delay (comp weight leather not available so different leather used) and wrong shipping later, it finally reached me halfway round the world in Asia. Basically Vanson made a new jacket for me, an armoured "America" minus the back flag. Also missing were side pockets, only one chest pocket and an inside pocket - decided I'm fine with it as it does give the jacket a cleaner look. The jacket is the usual Vanson stiff & thick, with the pads its even stiffer to start off with. I haven't worn it much at all as I have way too many riding jackets, but will be giving it some hard wear come Fall. As with other Vanson leather jackets I know it'll need some breaking down, gotta be patient with it.

Will share pics once I take some decent ones.

BTW, Along with this AR3 I also ordered a DRAC from Vanson, basically a Drifter, armoured cafe-style jacket in lighter-weight leather with perforated chest and a liner with zippered chest portion that can let air in when needed. As with the AR3, this jacket is nowhere on Vanson's website, but came up on their Facebook and other social media sites. And again, pics to follow when I take decent ones.

 

[Peacoat]

The last time I went down (1991) I had a pair of Ku****ani 'Roo gloves which were like ladies dress gloves in comfort (don't ask) and took the brunt of the fall/slide I had. Sure, there were double layers and studs in the palms, but they took a lot of abuse in that slide and saved my hand(s). The Hein Gerrick heavy cow also did it's thing as did the ARAI lid. Walked away, bike was totaled.

Not scientific, just my bad day on Mulholland Drive...

Mulholland Drive is a good road to ride, but it does have its dangers. Glad you didn't go over the edge or we would never have gotten to know you.

A road that intersects Mulholland and has spectacular views of the abyss is the one that runs from Thousand Oaks/Westgate Village to Malibu across the mountain. I think it might be 23? There are several through there that connect the PCH to 101, but I think the main road is 23. I don't like riding that road even in a car. But then I have a fear of heights, especially when there is no guard rail, only gravel for the 2' strip between the road and the drop. Too scary for me.

 

[ButteMT61]

Mulholland Drive is a good road to ride, but it does have its dangers. Glad you didn't go over the edge or we would never have gotten to know you.

A road that intersects Mulholland and has spectacular views of the abyss is the one that runs from Thousand Oaks/Westgate Village to Malibu across the mountain. I think it might be 23? There are several through there that connect the PCH to 101, but I think the main road is 23. I don't like riding that road in a car. But then I have a fear of heights, especially when there is no guard rail, only gravel for the 2' strip between the road and the drop. Too scary for me.

Right on. In fact, funny you mention that (guardrails). Both times, the bikes went into them after going about 50
' on their sides first. I was on the tarmac, but the bikes slide nicely along the blacktop and the rails are the only things that stopped them from going over, and maybe causing a fire, which is the big worry.

Both ends of Mulholland are incredible to ride, and I was lucky to be able to ride it to work every day for 14 years. One get-down was spilled anti-freeze in a blind corner, then next one was fallen gravel in a like blind corner. Neither one predictable. Ironically, I was behind a blue-haired old lady in a convertible Mustang and getting p*ssed off at her lack of speed. Had I been going my normal pace, it may have ended really badly. Double irony - I had literally just finished the last of my customizing on that bike two days before. Had taken a nice photo shoot and well, that was that.

¡Ride safe amigos!

 

[Superfluous]

Mulholland Drive is a good road to ride, but it does have its dangers. Glad you didn't go over the edge or we would never have gotten to know you.

A road that intersects Mulholland and has spectacular views of the abyss is the one that runs from Thousand Oaks/Westgate Village to Malibu across the mountain. I think it might be 23? There are several through there that connect the PCH to 101, but I think the main road is 23. I don't like riding that road even in a car. But then I have a fear of heights, especially when there is no guard rail, only gravel for the 2' strip between the road and the drop. Too scary for me.

Kanan Road. If you enjoy tight turns, Latigo is a better drive.

 

[Peacoat]

Right on. In fact, funny you mention that (guardrails). Both times, the bikes went into them after going about 50
' on their sides first. I was on the tarmac, but the bikes slide nicely along the blacktop and the rails are the only things that stopped them from going over, and maybe causing a fire, which is the big worry.

Both ends of Mulholland are incredible to ride, and I was lucky to be able to ride it to work every day for 14 years. One get-down was spilled anti-freeze in a blind corner, then next one was fallen gravel in a like blind corner. Neither one predictable. Ironically, I was behind a blue-haired old lady in a convertible Mustang and getting p*ssed off at her lack of speed. Had I been going my normal pace, it may have ended really badly. Double irony - I had literally just finished the last of my customizing on that bike two days before. Had taken a nice photo shoot and well, that was that.

¡Ride safe amigos!

If you had to go down, I guess it was good that you went down on a section of the road that had guard rails. It seems to me that there are no guard rails on much of that road. Just a sheer drop into the canyon. That's why I don't like to ride it even in a car.

Kanan Road. If you enjoy tight turns, Latigo is a better drive.

I think Kanan Road is to the north of 101? Not familiar with Latigo Road.

I like the tight turns, but not when the side of the road is right next to the abyss.

My wife is going out next week to West Place Village which is just over the Mountains from Malibu. We usually go together, but I couldn't make it this year.

Guess it is time to turn the thread back over to Pawineguy, although the digression has been at least tangentially related.

 

[pawineguy]

If you had to go down, I guess it was good that you went down on a section of the road that had guard rails. It seems to me that there are no guard rails on much of that road. Just a sheer drop into the canyon. That's why I don't like to ride it even in a car.



I think Kanan Road is to the north of 101? Not familiar with Latigo Road.

I like the tight turns, but not when the side of the road is right next to the abyss.

My wife is going out next week to West Place Village which is just over the Mountains from Malibu. We usually go together, but I couldn't make it this year.

Guess it is time to turn the thread back over to Pawineguy, although the digression has been at least tangentially related.

I love any talk of riding, and with the number of threads that I've hijacked... carry on. I road up and down the Delaware River a bit this weekend, bikers everywhere as not only does the river supply cool air, but most of it is also shaded and it's constant soft curves.

 

[navetsea]

so semi related question, any of you gents riding in a CR jacket?

usually I do ride with just leather jacket and jeans and boots, but what I do is commuting around my neighborhood, never a real long trip, the last time I ride longer than 1hrs on bike was when I had to survey a site suggested by my lector at university where I should check for myself up on the mountain around a lake, rode there after the class was over 3PM one day, the road there is about 30 mins, but then near that area I had to ride through small road in the middle of a tropical forest with tall trees, lots of vegetation, and not much light, sometime the road has deep valley on one side and vertical cliff on the other side with plants growing hanging over the road, and by the time I arrived at the spot, it was closed already so I only took some photos from distance, and see the sky is quickly losing light and decided to drive back, then fog started to fall, and then thunderstorm, and I have to ride through that dark forest again, now very wet, and dark, and full with strange animal sound, I rode as fast as I can through it. :eeek:

 

[Peacoat]

I love any talk of riding, and with the number of threads that I've hijacked... carry on. I road up and down the Delaware River a bit this weekend, bikers everywhere as not only does the river supply cool air, but most of it is also shaded and it's constant soft curves.

At my age I am now beginning to appreciate, more and more, the soft curves. Perhaps in more than one way?

so semi related question, any of you gents riding in a CR jacket?

usually I do ride with just leather jacket and jeans and boots, but what I do is commuting around my neighborhood, never a real long trip, the last time I ride longer than 1hrs on bike was when I had to survey a site suggested by my lector at university where I should check for myself up on the mountain around a lake, rode there after the class was over 3PM one day, the road there is about 30 mins, but then near that area I had to ride through small road in the middle of a tropical forest with tall trees, lots of vegetation, and not much light, sometime the road has deep valley on one side and vertical cliff on the other side with plants growing hanging over the road, and by the time I arrived at the spot, it was closed already so I only took some photos from distance, and see the sky is quickly losing light and decided to drive back, then fog started to fall, and then thunderstorm, and I have to ride through that dark forest again, now very wet, and dark, and full with strange animal sound, I rode as fast as I can through it. :eeek:

That sounds like a ride best avoided in the future. The strange animal sounds in the dark forest is what did it for me.

 

[ButteMT61]

I'm looking forward to a more relaxed riding plan down the road. I'm not with bike at the moment as I have given up on riding in LA for the most part. Got to the point where I am spending more time avoiding texting drivers than enjoying the ride. I sold my last bike last year and am trying to decide if/when I'll get another. There truly needs to be harsh laws in place and they need to be enforced. Two friends have been hit in the last 12 months as well. I was actually thinking of the new Indian Scout and some open highway instead. Dunno, it's in my blood, but I am getting older and I need to ride like an old guy I guess...

 

[Fanch]

I'm now considering selling my car and buying a Sherman tank. Too many stupid, careless drivers on the roads these days. Probably unsafe to ride a bike even with full body armor. I'll admit I'm somewhat jaded living in a metroplex with 7,000,000 people. [huh]

 

[pak]

I took a rode trip through California which included time in the big metro areas of LA and SF. I was a bit unnerved and surprised by the motorcycle activity known as splitting lanes. I guess it is legal but also believe it is a very precarious practice by bikers. I do not ride because I believe the biggest hazard on the road are autos rather than any road or weather condition. I would not be surprised if many bike accidents occurred when the rider was splitting a lane.