Longtime Loungers...do you think the Lounge has changed a great deal?

[panamag8or]

Exactly.

Its not that we cant -continue- to discuss something already discussed. Encouraging people to find old threads, gives them the benefit of the whole history. A lot of times the expert at something has posted a whole explanation and is no longer active. If I tried to explain what that expert said, in a poor inexpert fashion....rather then give the old thread, then I am doing the asker a disservice. I can't explain pin curls as well as some of the ladies, much like some of them cannot date and history a powder compact like I can. Its about helping folks find the info they want, in the best presented manner.

If that -restarts- an old discussion, then thats beautiful. If it means the requester just searches, finds the answer and no discussion occurs, thats also beautiful.

I used to have an issue with you pointing people to old threads all the time, but by doing that, you are directing people to threads that are rich in info, and that is a good thing. Oh, and I love commas.

 

[dhermann1]

I've been here not quite a year, and I'd say I've seen some evolution. I think there's a hard core of people who know each other pretty well now, so that lends itself to the creation of some of these silly on-going discussions ("A request to US Loungers" being the most infamous.) A lot of new people asking questions about topics that were covered 2 years ago is inevitable, and the search tools definitely could be improved. Maybe someone could set up some tutorials as stickies. (I know there are some, but maybe they could be developed.) Another aspect is that a lot of younger people have joined, and they're more into the 50's nostalgia than some of the older members. I often comment about this. It's a stretch for me to get into 50's nostalgia, but I still enjoy it.
I think also there is a greater and greater pent up desire to have actual get togethers and events. This is a big job, but some more FL events in various magnet locations would be great. There has been a lot of talk about New York, but other places also come to mind. I think we'd all like to actually see each other, and see what people have been able to put together in terms of clothes, and other aspects of vintage lifestyle. Hey, Mary Deluxe and Big Man, how about a house tour some day?
I also find myself getting addictive. When I see I've made 15 posts in one day, I realize I need to turn on a little stopping power.

 

[luvthatlulu]

I also feel at times that this place is turning into a singles bar.

I tend to agree. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, mind you.

 

[Spitfire]

Well spoken, Paddy:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[M Tatterscratch]

DON'T KICK ME TO DEATH FOR THIS...

Ladies and (Fedora)Gents,

Well, as a new member of the FL, I can tell you my experience, although you may not like it.

I initially came here to ask for information from the Experts about the specifics and details of men's vintage evening clothes. I searched the old threads for answers to my questions and, not finding them sufficiently explained, I started a thread to ask about them. I wasn't exactly deluged with help. In fact, only one person gave me any advice a'tall.

Thinking that perhaps I wasn't playing with the other children correctly, I decided to try and talk about the topics du jour - Vintage towns, vintage partners, vintage lifestyles, threads addressed to members in Europe… I encountered a number of lovely people with whom I enjoyed talking and who seemed to enjoy talking to me, most of whom were New Fish.

After a bit, thinking that I had perhaps shown my budding intent to be part of the board, I decided to try another formalwear question (It’s what I’ve been working on lately). I had a little better luck this time - Several people replied, and all of them, I believe, were New Fish.

"Okay," I said to myself, "Perhaps I need to SHOW my active interest in vintage..." So I posted a number of my recent vintage acquisitions with photographs, the length of which amounted to nearly a page by itself. Four “Alpha Members” of FL, two of whom are specifically named in FedoraGent’s list of founders, talked right around my post, which contained at least 3 or 4 suits from the early 1900s and a number of other items, without even so much as a, "I'm not sure about the year on that one" or a "That suit sucks - you were had!" to be heard. They just went on talking to each other. How can I contribute "quality" content to the board, or know if I’ve done well or ill, if the Experts don’t want to coach a bush-leaguer like me? [huh]

Balmoral boots. Re-weaving. Eveningwear - I tried, but not much luck with the varsity team, overall. So I’ve begun talking to the people who talk to me, about velcro flies and other inconsequential silliness.

If there's been a decline in the quality of the posts, perhaps it's because all of you truly knowledgeable folks naturally found (or founded) this place first, and those of us who know less took longer to find our way through the forest, arriving with a less extensive fund of knowledge, as well.

Think of us as kindergarteners. We come here to learn, but if nobody takes an active interest in our education, don’t be surprised when we go off and paint the walls or eat paste. Telling us to sit down and read the textbook doesn’t mean we won’t pull each other’s hair and talk about our favourite Power Ranger.

I know you didn't sign up to be teachers, but as the Old Guard of FL, that's kind of how you look, at least to me. If you'd rather not, perhaps there should be a "Kids' Table" section of the FL where you can contain us until we've proven we can dress ourselves properly...

In closing this letter, which has very nearly made my head pop off, I’d like to specifically thank Old School members Mr. Hemingway Jones and Miss Neecerie for taking the time to put up with me and trying to answer my stupid questions, and Forgotten Man for simply playing along with a New Fish. If I’ve inadvertently forgotten anyone who has shown me help and kindness in my search for a more vintage life, it is to those people that I tender my most profound apologies.

You may fire when ready.

*lights pipe, adjusts blindfold*

Sincerely,

T.

 

[panamag8or]

Ladies and (Fedora)Gents,


Think of us as kindergarteners. We come here to learn, but if nobody takes an active interest in our education, don’t be surprised when we go off and paint the walls or eat paste.

Post of the day!:eusa_clap lol lol

 

[staggerwing]

Well, I think a lot of that is contained in a few threads, or behind the scenes.

Myself, I would be interested in restricting new users from creating new threads, as long as the reason for it ("your topic is probably already covered") is made very clear.

From a newcomer's perspective, I found this place from Classic Style magazine. I was initially impressed that it lacks the flame wars I've encountered on other boards. Some of that is due to the work or the moderators, but even so, they seem to HAVE to intervene very rarely. Folks of all ages, backgrounds and education levels just seem to be better mannered here.

That said, I have determined that the board is decidedly "cliquish." Some members can post a topic like one of those mentioned in the original post and then say "oh nevermind" and there are still dozens of pages of replies. Others of us seem to be competing for the title of "most prolific thread killer." Well, that's just like real life I guess. Not everyone can be the most popular kid in the class. Besides, as an infrequent poster and a representative of the generation of loungers that "almost" experienced the golden era first hand, I don't expect to attain the status of the true experts on here.

I guess that bit about representing the older generation of loungers also affects my perception of the "go look it up" response alot of newbies get when they ask a question that's been covered before. I liken posting here to a conversation. If someone were to ask me a question during a polite conversation, I wouldn't say "That's already been discussed, go look it up in the encyclopedia." I guess the folks more accustomed to computers have a different sort of "etiquette" than us old guys who perfer face-to-face discussion. I'm not saying it wrong, just different. Oh, and I'm glad I didn't ask if there were any good hat stores in DC (I was just about to when another newbie asked if there were any in Atlanta. The response made me realize it was not a good idea to ask).

New members are the life blood of any organization. If the old timers want to prevent newbies from starting threads, well good for them. One by one, the existing members inevitably drop out. Eventually, you wont have to worry about any more offensive threads. Well, back to lurk mode for me. This is Staggerwing, signing off.

 

[The Wingnut]

You may fire when ready.

*lights pipe, adjusts blindfold*

Hrm...if we execute you, we might get blood on that tie.

Honestly, I'm not sure how some posts will be ignored and others explode with information. Some people will post regardless of their expertise on a topic(not to say there are people that talk without knowing what they're talking about, but simply to make conversation), others will be unsure of the topic at hand and withhold speaking. I vary between the two. I'll go for long stretches without posting, and for a while retired when the Lounge changed considerably in a few short months, and I just couldn't keep up and didn't like the changes(specifically, there was a huge influx of members after teaming with another site, and the atmosphere changed drastically in a short time).

Is the Lounge different? Yes, very different from what it was in 2004. Is this a bad thing? Yes and no. It was much smaller and closer-knit, and much more focused on hats, with everything else being secondary. Having the hat inspired the suit, having the suit inspired a good fit, having a good-fitting suit meant you had to dig back into history to when tailors were still inexpensive and knew how to do it right...which meant sooner or later, you were buying vintage. It's the Fedora Lounge, not the Vintage Lounge, alas, and owes it existence to those who want good hats(Of course, MK started the whole thing with C.O.W. members joining in). I've got a large number of very high quality hats thanks to what I've learned here.

Being as large as the Lounge is now, it's tough to get much attention here. Don't take it personally...human nature often prompts people to talk with just those they're familiar with.

As for searching, I don't mind topics being rehashed as long as they're useful and educating...I rarely tell people to look stuff up. There's another board I'm on that just about executes every new member when they inevitably ask a question that's been asked before...and other boards still that will drag out the firing squad if someone engages in 'thread necro'...resurrecting an old post. Both of these forums have been around for more than 5 years and are so large that it would take you a lifetime to read everything contained in them.

 

[TheDutchess]

Little note from a new one.

As a Newbie myself, I really have to agree with with M Tatterscratch. It's a bit tricky posting on these boards when your a FL youngin. I tend to be cautious posting in threads with alot of vets because sometimes it can be like going into the lions den with a toothpick as a weapon. As mindless as some of the discussions may seem by some of the newbies, its a bit comforting knowing someone will at the very least will aknowledge your presence. (Of course not all Vets are like that, some of you have been super helpful and friendly and I appreciate it. ) Im actually glad this thread as come about. We can lay it out on the table and no one pokes anyone else's eye out. So um....yea kids, remember to play nice, eat your vegetables, and smokey the bear says only you can prevent forest fires. Lova ya!

 

[The Wingnut]

FL vets aren't necessarily experts. A few are. I know I'm not(and have been known to talk out of my @$$ on occasion). High post count and longevity does not an expert make.

I'm a newb on other boards and generally lurk for a month or two after introducing myself, just to get a feel for the place. I'll hang out in the general areas and make small talk just so I get some exposure.

Message boards are strange case studies in human nature. There's still nothing quite like face-to-face contact...lovers of the 'bleeding edge' might disagree, but there's much lost in translation to text from thought, especially when lacking vocal intonation, inflection and facial expression.

 

[luvthatlulu]

Having been "kicked to death", as you put it, a few times for trying to help I can understand why others may see this sort of treatment and be reluctant to suffer the same fate--even though they have extensive knowledge of the subject to contribute. That's sad. But, like you, I came here for guidance where I feel I need it, and I'll continue to impart the pitiful amount of knowledge that I do have where I think it might help others.

I believe you agree with me that, when a genuine question about style or fashion guidelines is asked, simply replying (or responding to someone else's post) that "anything goes" or "wear what you want" or "I once saw so-and-so wear it this way in an old movie" isn't really the answer or guidance you're looking for, is it? Having someone explain to you the reasoning behind the "rule" or "guideline" helps you see just how far someone was willing to bend the rules in order to make a statement...before you follow suit and possibly make an ass of yourself as well.

Now I'm not against anyone making their own style statement. That's how new fashion trends are born. I'm just not able to watch someone do it and suffer the consequences because of lack of/bad advice.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I don't think the newbies are a trouble and taking away anything from the place as I myself was a newbie once and knew nothing when it came to clothes and lifestyle like that showcased here on the Lounge. I think many of the older crowd are just really burned out from posting like Marc Chevalier.

It's a great lifestyle though never want anyone to feel snubbed because their questions are going unanswered appropriately.

Where Can I buy a vintage oven
How long does it take to polish Russian Calf
Why is vintage wool so dense
What happened to cigarette tins
Are vintage fans really a fire hazard
what book will tell me the appropriately skirt length for the 30's

This is a place for learning yes... but time and focus wear on everyone.

I wish sometimes that there was a button you could push that flagged the post as an unanswered question and when it was satisfied that flag would go down. I also think we need to have a system that shows similar threads linking automatically to new threads of the same subject... this is the computer age after all.

So if you feel neglected on these boards or you feel as though someone has looked at you as though you have asked a dumb question, speak up and hopefully the older bunch will be here to read and answer.

 

[luvthatlulu]

Well said, Matt. :eusa_clap

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

As a member of the "middle guard," neither old nor new, I would venture to say that I add almost zero actual content here, but enjoy the content created by others very much. I regularly feel like a thread killer myself.lol [huh]

I really don't think this is the best place to socialize, what with all the topic restriction, but it is an element of a message board, and I think it adds a lot to see the different types of personalities.

I guess my comment about restricting new users from creating new threads came off as harsh. We restrict new users from posting pictures until their training wheels are off too, just not for very long. And it is off-putting (and generally seems snotty) to have to tell every new user, in a new thread they just created, that they should have searched first. Searching first isn't always the norm in other message boards, and it certainly isn't self-evident. I wish there was a nice way to say "Please place your new question on an old topic in an existing thread, so new users can access everything about it in one place." Although, we all know the threads are still scattered.

 

[kools]

So if you feel neglected on these boards or you feel as though someone has looked at you as though you have asked a dumb question, speak up and hopefully the older bunch will be here to read and answer.

I think Matt is extending an olive branch with a very pleasant response. As someone who has posted very little, and killed more threads than I would like, I don't believe that there is any sort of prejudice against me for it. I have noticed that the more interesting something is that I have to say, the more people respond. So while I cannot provide sartorial history in the same academic vein as some members, and I have never met a FL member in person who doesn't live in Milwaukee, I feel that anything that I contribute is evaluated on its own merit.

As someone who is a long-timer (I started lurking in 2004; joined in 2005; contributed little since), I have noticed a change in the FL...to me members actually seem to get along better. It is amazing how civil 7,000+ people can actually be to each other.

Thank you to those that do continue to make the FL a nice place to visit.

 

[Dinerman]

I may not have been here all that long, but I'd like to thank you all for teaching me a lot, and I hope I've been able to share with all of the members here some things you might not have seen. I don't know how much I've really contributed, but I know that I'm having fun with all of this.

 

[hepkitten]

I regularly feel like a thread killer myself.lol [huh]

Boy, am I glad to hear a couple of other folks say this. I was starting to think I ought to change my avatar to a can of Raid. lol

I signed up more than a year ago, but my time here, and number of postings, fluctuates depending on how well my writing is going (anyone who is a writer knows what I'm talking about ). I found the Lounge while doing research for my WWII-era novel. Stayed because I adore 1930s-40s fashion, history, et al...and because the FL is the most courteous, diverse and interesting online community I've come across. Like other newbies mentioned, yeah, I often get talked around. But that's OK. I'm an old fogie on a writers' message board, so I see it from both sides. Over the past 10 years, that board has changed tremendously, more than once. And it is off-putting when a newbie writer starts a new thread one minute (literally) after registering on the site, asking, "How do I get a literary agent?!?" *sigh* And then one of us patiently types, Welcome, this is a huge subject that's been discussed to death, here are some threads to get you started. (Granted, some of the oldsters aren't this polite -- which I feel is a disservice to the newbie. Educate, educate. One can always get on one's high horse later, if newcomer refuses to follow etiquette.) Message boards are like any new social setting: best to get the lay of the land first, then start tossing in one's two cents.

When it comes to vintage lifestyle, I'm no expert, so I don't feel I have much to contribute that way. But I still do research here (y'all have an acknowledgement in my book, which will be published next spring) and I enjoy the folks and the conversations. And the courtesy. Yeah, especially that.

 

[Spitfire]

Ask all the stupid questions you can come up with...

That is the only way to learn things.
Sometimes you will be told that it has allready been debated and you should go look...ok!
Other times you get direct links - GREAT!
And if the oldtimers know-it-all types are not in the mood to teach you, then be happy that there are so many "middleguads" and newcommers ready to help. Sometimes down the line of such a thread - even the oldtimers tends to join in. When it either gets interesting enough - or wrong enough.

And don't be depressed if you don't get answeres. Or only a few. (I have tried it many times.) Maybe there are no single answere. Maybe your post just goes down the line - without anybody noticing. Because there are other important subjects.
My experience tells me, that if you are very precise where you post your question - you will get answeres. But if all your posts are in the O-Bar.
Showing what you look like...today. Forget it. There is simply too much going on there.

As Paddy put it so very well: It is an evolution.
The Lounge is as good and as bad as its members. Some of the oldtimers have got everything they could use out of the Lounge.
And maybe there just isn't so much to talk about for them anymore. I mean, how long can you be exited about a button in a BD jacket?:eusa_doh:
But new faces joins up every day. With interest, special knowledge or curiosity.
Aint it just great?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I think the original poster is correct in that the percentage of in-depth discussion-type threads has gone down. But i feel it's because the sheer number of threads has gone up. I'm probably a bit of an old timer around here - though not really, i only joined in 2005. I find it very very difficult to just keep up with the number of threads. I'm not going to be able to post on every new thread with the invariable "look what i bought and a link to an eBay auction" as the first post (the prominent type of thread being started these days). Firstly that's not why i'm here. I saw the listing on eBay; so did many other members. I don't care that you won it or how much you paid. I want to see how nice it is; How it looks on you. Show us its features. If you don't know how old it is, people can help. If we don't post it's because it's outside our expertise (at least that's why i don't post sometimes).

I think a number of suggestions are in order. If you've just won a hat/suit/whatever on eBay: that doesn't deserve its own thread!! Wait for it to arrive, assess it, take good pictures. Post it in an appropriate thread. Discuss the features. other like-minded people will post in response. There was a while there where the "show us your suits" thread was almost a model of how a thread on this board should work. No links to auctions, no bragging; just: "here's a suit, let's discuss it." This was a time when Marc C, Wild Root, herringbonekid, to some extent Daniel Riser and myself were more active than we are now. I'd say the only thread really like this at the moment is the Irvin jackets thread. Paddy, you're a marvel!

The reason i don't post much (except this evening, it seems!) in the hat forum is the sheer volume of "i just won xxxx on eBay . . . look how much i paid!" threads. People, there is a "show us your hats" thread. More than one! use them, please. There is a "formal wear primer" thread. Use it for formal wear!

It's not about saying the stuff inherently isn't worthy of its own thread (though much of it isn't), it just makes it easier to help people out if stuff is located in a smaller number of specific threads.

bk

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I think a number of suggestions are in order. If you've just won a hat/suit/whatever on eBay: that doesn't deserve its own thread!! Wait for it to arrive, assess it, take good pictures. Post it in an appropriate thread. Discuss the features. other like-minded people will post in response.

If I may...agree with the above and add another example.

The ladies basically confine their 'I just bought/wons' to -one- thread and it works very well indeed. If people don't want to see new stuff (and when I am in a budgety crisis it just makes me horribly green-eyed to see what others can buy), then they don't read that thread.