Letter from Stetson

[scotrace]

So if I get 32 people to pay up front for a Stratoliner copy at $150 each I'd be happy to continue with this project.

You have one. Just 31 to go.

But that just puts the smell of money in the air. Assuming Stetson no longer has the blocks to make a Stratoliner (or Flagship, old style Open Road, etc.), you could become license holder for producing those styles for Stetson. A market that is small for Stetson, but rather large for you, if you got a piece of every hat carrying these names sold...
Added advantage is that you'd have a copy to offer with the correct badging.



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[feltfan]

I think that even if the factory does make better hats again , the amount of people that will care will be very small. As mentioned on the lounge many times in the past, most people today care about price points and tend to hesitate when the price reaches a certain point

I think the hat buying market is waiting to be created.
The Loungers here are the sort of vanguard you see over
and over again in markets. It is waiting to be popularized.

Who would have thought in the 70s that in the 80s onward
people would pay the big bucks to buy fancy tennis shoes?
Who would have thought in the 80s that people in the 90s
onward would pay three bucks for a fancy coffee every morning?

If the product is low quality (and the price still fairly high) no
market will be created. If someone in the hat retail or
wholesale business makes a point of promoting a decent product
at a fair price, a market will be created. Akubra clearly lacks the
distribution. Stetson has a name it is squandering with the
sleaziest sort of pandering, actively hurting the public's perception
of a quality dress hat with the thrift store garbage they sell for
over a hundred dollars.

Meanwhile public understanding of melanoma, public acceptance
of retro looks, and an erosion of conformity have primed the
public for good hats.

A decent, properly marketed American dress hat could clean up.
All it takes is to stop hurting the reputation of hats by selling crap
and making a real commitment to educating the public by offering
a quality product at an affordable price.

BTW, I think what Duane is doing by selling and playing up vintage hats
on his site is a very good step in the right direction. He sells today's hats
because that's what he can get, but he is at least making a statement to
the public that things can be (and once were) better. Now let's see retail
hat stores start stocking a handful of hats from Art or Steve and taking
custom orders, the way bicycle shops created the custom bike market.
Which, in turn created a better retail bike market, once customers became
more sophisticated. Through education you can create the market you want.

 

[Pilgrim]

One thought I'll contribute is that the price of good fedoras is definitely going up on Ebay. I don't think there are enough loungers competing to account for this; in fact, there have been a number of nice hats sold for more than any lounger has paid - and threads about those hats haven't identified any lounger as they buyer.

Ebay is a big market; big enough to at least test trends. It appears to me that there is at least a small trend to people buying hats again. That bodes well for hatters, because if there's no market, there won't be hatters. Furthers, if there's no volume of dress hats to be sold, Stetson can't really make a big investment in that market.

However, there was a good idea shared above. Volume is a relative thing. A boutique maker like Art, Aaron, Besdor or others could be a sub-contractor to Stetson for their men's dress lines. This is comparable to the custom shops that have made Detroit's convertibles for years. When there isn't enough volume for the big manufacturer to respond, there can be enough volume for a smaller, specialized shop to fill the need and make a nice profit doing it. Stetson could provide the materials and bring its purchasing power to bear in getting materials at advantageous prices; the specialist could fill the orders.

Maybe one or more of the lounge's specialized makers need to get the President of Stetson on the phone and make such a proposal.

 

[Joel Tunnah]

Preach it, brother Feltfan. :eusa_clap

 

[jamespowers]

Stetson used to put their name on a brand of men's shoes. Back in the '30s and '40s. Great quality shoes, by the way.

They are great shoes for sure. I have several types. Do you know who actually made them?

Regards,

J

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I don't know exactly who made the shoes, but here's some eye (and ear) candy for you:


http://www.rubylane.com/ni/shops/tobyfarm/iteml/3813#pic1

http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,951879.html

http://www.weymouth.ma.us/photoview/view58.htm

http://www.prx.org/pieces/309;jsessionid=C822586EDBDAE288F0F984D2B8100DB2.jvm1


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[DanielJones]

You have one. Just 31 to go.

But that just puts the smell of money in the air. Assuming Stetson no longer has the blocks to make a Stratoliner (or Flagship, old style Open Road, etc.), you could become license holder for producing those styles for Stetson. A market that is small for Stetson, but rather large for you, if you got a piece of every hat carrying these names sold...
Added advantage is that you'd have a copy to offer with the correct badging.



.

Make that 30 to go. Sounds like a good idea & price to me.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[jamespowers]

I don't know exactly who made the shoes, but here's some eye (and ear) candy for you:


http://www.rubylane.com/ni/shops/tobyfarm/iteml/3813#pic1

http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,951879.html

http://www.weymouth.ma.us/photoview/view58.htm

http://www.prx.org/pieces/309;jsessionid=C822586EDBDAE288F0F984D2B8100DB2.jvm1


.

I have one for you. Just one so you don't hurt yourself though. This is a black pair with gray buck. Stetson shoes.

Regards to all,

J

P.S. Why can't they make shoes like they used to?

 

[besdor]

Stetson can make just about anything today that they did in the past . They have a lot of blocks and flanges . They DONT have the workers that they used to have . Today , everything is like an assembly line in an auto factory . Very little hand work . I'm afraid all of that old time knowledge is lost to time .
Maybe Art wants to go work for Stetson . He could show them what it means to make a good hat !!


Steven

 

[RedPop4]

Consultants always make more than the people at the company that hires them. USUALLY they know a hell of a lot less. This situation would truly be an anomaly...a consultant who knows what to do.

 

[thefedorastore]

Just like all hats are not the same not all blocks are the same. That $600 price tag is for a block to be used on production machinery, not fluffing up a couple hats.

So if I get 32 people to pay up front for a Stratoliner copy at $150 each I'd be happy to continue with this project.

Back to the drawing board.

Oh, you're thinking Big! Mass production. I wouldn't worry about selling just 32 hats then. That small number could be done on a "fluffing block". I misunderstood.

 

[mthatter]

My two cents

erased by mt

 

[jamespowers]

Stetson can make just about anything today that they did in the past . They have a lot of blocks and flanges . They DONT have the workers that they used to have . Today , everything is like an assembly line in an auto factory . Very little hand work . I'm afraid all of that old time knowledge is lost to time .
Maybe Art wants to go work for Stetson . He could show them what it means to make a good hat !!

I think you just proved that Stetson can't make anything they did in the past. They sold the plants and equipment. Their workers who knew something about making hats are either too old or long dead. The people running the company have no idea how to make hats right either. The company they are now part of is just another multinational that has no connection to John B.
The John B. stetson company of old used an assembly line of sorts as well. there were people who blocked the hat finished the hat and trimmed the hat just as there are people on car assembly lines today that turn the same four nuts every day. The difference is that the Stetson workers got very good at their particular task and could move up to master hatter if their talents merited it. Nut turning don't cut it anymore.
we could indeed use Art to show them how to do it all right but then dealing with all those idiots day after day might shorten his life span and we can't risk that. He is good right where he is. :eusa_clap

Regards,

J

 

[Fedora]

Assuming Stetson no longer has the blocks to make a Stratoliner (or Flagship, old style Open Road, etc.)

Around 12 or 13 years ago, I called up Stetson, while looking for an Indy fedora. I had already bought their Temple(what they sold as the official Indy hat, and then changed the name to Temple when they lost the licensing), as well as their Nostalgia.(discontinued shortly thereafter due to low sales)

I was enquiring if they made a dress hat with a little taller crown, as both the Temple and the Nostalgia came with 5 inch open crowns. I was informed that the tallest dress hat they made was 5 inches, and nothing taller was available in the dress line.So, I really wonder if they do in fact still have the taller vintage blocks. You know, this is the same company(hatco) that destroyed all of that back shop equipment in order to alleviate any future competition, after the Phila plant was closed down and all of the equipment was shipped south. They destroyed irreplaceable backshop and even frontshot equipment. They did not want any competition. Henceforth, they dropped the quality and cost of producing hats, and that is how we get from there to here. Get rid of competition, then produce low cost low quality hats. Ah, modern business theory. Disposable items, in the same vein as a piece of tissue, instead of a handkerchief. Fedora

 

[Matthew Dalton]

It's such a shame that all of those tools and know-how could be lost like that. On that topic, do any of the hatters here have apprentices or similar?

 

[fedoralover]

I totally agree--who cares!

I will stick my neck out and say who cares if Stetson makes a high quality hat. You have access to some top notch custom hatters here that know exactly what you like and can make your hat in any style, color, trim color and size. It is a niche market that caters to those who don't want the mass produced hats, they want a personalized hat made just for them.

The cost per month over the life of a custom hat is probably less than a dollar. To me thats a bargain in our throw away society. Being heavy into outdoor recreation I compare the cost of a hat to other items such as skis, kayaks, mountainbikes, and outdoor clothing which all are either worn out or outdated within maybe 5 years. Same goes for computers and a host of other consumer goods. The hat lives on and on and on and somewhat defines who you are.

If the cost of a custom hat is price prohibitive, save some money for a while and you'll never be sorry as it's money well spent. And when faced with the choice of spending $300 for a factory hat or a pure beaver custom hat there really is not a choice at all.

John
www.rockymountainhatcompany.com

John, I agree with you 100%, I was fortunate to get my vintage fedora's before the prices went up. But even if I hadn't, I would rather spend more on a custom than an off the shelf new one. A cheap suit can cost 2 to 3 hundred dollars and how long will you be wearing it?

A custom fedora from Art or Steve is in the same price range and with a little bit of care your grandkids will be wearing it when you are 6 feet under.

The era of Stetson making quality hats is gone and it's not coming back. Paying a few hundered dollars, either on ebay or for a custom is the way to go in the long run. The hat companys of yesteryear are a thing of the past.

Go vintage or go custom.

fedoralover

 

[BellyTank]

Hi all-
don't know if anyone mentioned this(not much time this week)- but-

A good/excellent product at a reasonable to exorbitant price WILL sell
BUT the market NEEDS to know the difference(and why) between a very mediocre hat and an excellent one- which seems to take about 2 years of Fedora Lounging, or other forms of hat lounging and a hands on experience with the vintage goods.

The painful thing for us/them is getting the point across to people who aren't vintage inspired/interested/excited.

e.g.> It seems that the Cigar Guys now need Panamas to go with those stogies-
some lateral-thinking-type-cross-marketing is needed-

Nice and exciting, thought provoking thread, BTW.

PS- If I seem happier, or sloppier, or less grammatical than usual, it's probably because I just got drunk. If you wanna know what that's like, then ask a glass of water.

Cheers!

B
T

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... with a little bit of care your grandkids will be wearing it when you are 6 feet under.

Unless your grandkids end up having much smaller or bigger heads than yours. :eusa_doh:

.

 

[fedoralover]

Well, genetics permitting of course.

fedoralover

 

[Aaron Hats]

I talked with a customer today who said he's going to order the Diamante by Stetson, http://www.getahaton.com/proddetail....40.DIAM&cat=44. We'll see if the check arrives.

SOLD!