Johnson Leather Jacket

[Entropindigo]

Anyone have advice on where to go to source your own hides? Say for instance, you were interested in a Shinki or Clayton, etc to provide to JL, do you just contact the respective tannery? And is it prohibitively expensive to buy just enough to make one jacket, that you might as well go through a maker that sources those hides in bulk themselves?

 

[Rugby]

Anyone have advice on where to go to source your own hides? Say for instance, you were interested in a Shinki or Clayton, etc to provide to JL, do you just contact the respective tannery? And is it prohibitively expensive to buy just enough to make one jacket, that you might as well go through a maker that sources those hides in bulk themselves?

You could ask JL if they can source the hides you want. Any hide I've mentioned they said that they could provide. Never asked about shinki. Not interested. My humble opinion is that it's overrated.

 

[Entropindigo]

You could ask JL if they can source the hides you want. Any hide I've mentioned they said that they could provide. Never asked about shinki. Not interested. My humble opinion is that it's overrated.

I tend to agree that it's over rated, but I still like it (not love, but a solid like) and having familiarity with it makes it a tempting option for a mid weight leather for me.

Thanks for the tip on simply asking JL about sourcing the leather, makes all too much sense!

 

[Canuck Panda]

Anyone have advice on where to go to source your own hides? Say for instance, you were interested in a Shinki or Clayton, etc to provide to JL, do you just contact the respective tannery? And is it prohibitively expensive to buy just enough to make one jacket, that you might as well go through a maker that sources those hides in bulk themselves?

I have a sick obsession with leather. Be prepared for some long jibberish words...

Shinki can be bought here:
https://shop.hashimotoindustry.com/en/collections/standerd
You can also use email, I believe their contact is still Cindy.

Standard is their most basic one, also known as full aniline. It is stiff, can be thick depend on the batch. This stuff takes forever to break in. Was about $10.50/sf at retail, I believe they've raised prices a bit since I last bought some over two years ago.

SF horse is the pigment aka teacore Shinki. 80% of the jackets from Japan that uses "teacore" Shinki is gonna be made with this stuff. At least my Japanese collections seems to be this case. So most popular. If I remember correctly this was a dollar or so more than the standard Shinki per sf. The Japanese makers can get this stuff tumbled not sure if they do it for overseas customers.

WP Horse / Nume Horse / Ponyhide / Oil tanned are all very similar if I am not mistaken. This would be a drapier version of the standard, chrome base not veg base, drapes very well but feels almost too soft for horsehide. Semi aniline, not as naked as the standard, not as thick top coat as the SF horse.

You'd need at about 45 square feet for a medium sized jacket, if larger sizes, need more square footage. They use Fedex to ship, and the shipping cost is gonna be around 100 bucks to the west coast.

Shinki don't use stamps, they just have this tiny little sticker, it would be nice to work that into the jacket somewhere. JL was kind enough to work the Horween stamps onto the inside side gussets of my Barneveld Remix:

The Shinki sticker is a tiny paper sticker about an inch wide, per hide. In theory it is possible to laminate it and then have it stitched to the inside facing somewhere.

Now there are Shinki hides that are finished at the TMY factory in Tokyo, contracted by Rainbow Country factory. Imo these are the cream of the top leather from Japan. But I don't know how to get these.

Horween actually also increased their prices over the last two years, so they are either on par or more expensive than Shinki now. Long time Horween customers may still be on the older pricing. IMO Horween generally does a better job at finishing than Shinki, but TMY factory finishes the Shinki at Horween level or better.

JL can get all sorts of Horweens. There is regular Vermont which is a cross breed of Shinki's WP horse and SF horse, and then there is a waxed Vermont which is closer to the SF horse. Of course then there is CXL and it's many different variations. Best skived down to 2.5oz for easier wear. There are probably a bunch of other Horween tannages out there that are suitable for garment but are not being used for them yet.

A list of Horween tannage from so long ago, there are many new ones now.

JL has sourcing capabilities. They can pretty much get anything based on availability. Prices will add up very fast too though. So something to think about.

Damn all this leather talk has got me itching for an unexplored leather again...

 

[Goel]

Most tanneries have a minimum order quantity, which can be feasible if you do a group order as a few have done here. Horween sells direct through the Tannery Row and they also have seconds at Maverick Leather (who also have lots of other leathers available). I myself have been trying to source a coated/finished deerskin similar to what LW offers but haven't had any luck.

 

[Entropindigo]

I have a sick obsession with leather. Be prepared for some long jibberish words...

Shinki can be bought here:
https://shop.hashimotoindustry.com/en/collections/standerd
You can also use email, I believe their contact is still Cindy.

Standard is their most basic one, also known as full aniline. It is stiff, can be thick depend on the batch. This stuff takes forever to break in. Was about $10.50/sf at retail, I believe they've raised prices a bit since I last bought some over two years ago.

SF horse is the pigment aka teacore Shinki. 80% of the jackets from Japan that uses "teacore" Shinki is gonna be made with this stuff. At least my Japanese collections seems to be this case. So most popular. If I remember correctly this was a dollar or so more than the standard Shinki per sf. The Japanese makers can get this stuff tumbled not sure if they do it for overseas customers.

WP Horse / Nume Horse / Ponyhide / Oil tanned are all very similar if I am not mistaken. This would be a drapier version of the standard, chrome base not veg base, drapes very well but feels almost too soft for horsehide. Semi aniline, not as naked as the standard, not as thick top coat as the SF horse.

You'd need at about 45 square feet for a medium sized jacket, if larger sizes, need more square footage. They use Fedex to ship, and the shipping cost is gonna be around 100 bucks to the west coast.

Shinki don't use stamps, they just have this tiny little sticker, it would be nice to work that into the jacket somewhere. JL was kind enough to work the Horween stamps onto the inside side gussets of my Barneveld Remix:
View attachment 505018

The Shinki sticker is a tiny paper sticker about an inch wide, per hide. In theory it is possible to laminate it and then have it stitched to the inside facing somewhere.
View attachment 505019

Now there are Shinki hides that are finished at the TMY factory in Tokyo, contracted by Rainbow Country factory. Imo these are the cream of the top leather from Japan. But I don't know how to get these.
View attachment 505034

Horween actually also increased their prices over the last two years, so they are either on par or more expensive than Shinki now. Long time Horween customers may still be on the older pricing. IMO Horween generally does a better job at finishing than Shinki, but TMY factory finishes the Shinki at Horween level or better.

JL can get all sorts of Horweens. There is regular Vermont which is a cross breed of Shinki's WP horse and SF horse, and then there is a waxed Vermont which is closer to the SF horse. Of course then there is CXL and it's many different variations. Best skived down to 2.5oz for easier wear. There are probably a bunch of other Horween tannages out there that are suitable for garment but are not being used for them yet.

A list of Horween tannage from so long ago, there are many new ones now.
View attachment 505035

JL has sourcing capabilities. They can pretty much get anything based on availability. Prices will add up very fast too though. So something to think about.

Damn all this leather talk has got me itching for an unexplored leather again...

Wow, a big thank you... that is a treasure trove of information and serious food for thought.

 

[Rugby]

I have a sick obsession with leather. Be prepared for some long jibberish words...

Shinki can be bought here:
https://shop.hashimotoindustry.com/en/collections/standerd
You can also use email, I believe their contact is still Cindy.

Standard is their most basic one, also known as full aniline. It is stiff, can be thick depend on the batch. This stuff takes forever to break in. Was about $10.50/sf at retail, I believe they've raised prices a bit since I last bought some over two years ago.

SF horse is the pigment aka teacore Shinki. 80% of the jackets from Japan that uses "teacore" Shinki is gonna be made with this stuff. At least my Japanese collections seems to be this case. So most popular. If I remember correctly this was a dollar or so more than the standard Shinki per sf. The Japanese makers can get this stuff tumbled not sure if they do it for overseas customers.

WP Horse / Nume Horse / Ponyhide / Oil tanned are all very similar if I am not mistaken. This would be a drapier version of the standard, chrome base not veg base, drapes very well but feels almost too soft for horsehide. Semi aniline, not as naked as the standard, not as thick top coat as the SF horse.

You'd need at about 45 square feet for a medium sized jacket, if larger sizes, need more square footage. They use Fedex to ship, and the shipping cost is gonna be around 100 bucks to the west coast.

Shinki don't use stamps, they just have this tiny little sticker, it would be nice to work that into the jacket somewhere. JL was kind enough to work the Horween stamps onto the inside side gussets of my Barneveld Remix:
View attachment 505018

The Shinki sticker is a tiny paper sticker about an inch wide, per hide. In theory it is possible to laminate it and then have it stitched to the inside facing somewhere.
View attachment 505019

Now there are Shinki hides that are finished at the TMY factory in Tokyo, contracted by Rainbow Country factory. Imo these are the cream of the top leather from Japan. But I don't know how to get these.
View attachment 505034

Horween actually also increased their prices over the last two years, so they are either on par or more expensive than Shinki now. Long time Horween customers may still be on the older pricing. IMO Horween generally does a better job at finishing than Shinki, but TMY factory finishes the Shinki at Horween level or better.

JL can get all sorts of Horweens. There is regular Vermont which is a cross breed of Shinki's WP horse and SF horse, and then there is a waxed Vermont which is closer to the SF horse. Of course then there is CXL and it's many different variations. Best skived down to 2.5oz for easier wear. There are probably a bunch of other Horween tannages out there that are suitable for garment but are not being used for them yet.

A list of Horween tannage from so long ago, there are many new ones now.
View attachment 505035

JL has sourcing capabilities. They can pretty much get anything based on availability. Prices will add up very fast too though. So something to think about.

Damn all this leather talk has got me itching for an unexplored leather again...

Should open your own shop. This is more concise information on leather than I've ever seen. Bur I still think shinki is way overrated.

 

[Entropindigo]

Should open your own shop. This is more concise information on leather than I've ever seen. Bur I still think shinki is way overrated.

When you say overrated, do you mean "bad" or just "doesn't live up" to the hype of being what some call "the best"? For me, it seems like a fine leather and has plenty of good qualities, I just don't find it to be vastly superior to other options. As good, sure... just not superior. I wear my CXL FQHH more than my shinki jacket, especially now that it's broken in, but there's things I appreciate about both. I'm curious as to your thoughts on it, what you don't care for, etc (in a purely conversational, non-combative sense haha).

 

[Rugby]

When you say overrated, do you mean "bad" or just "doesn't live up" to the hype of being what some call "the best"? For me, it seems like a fine leather and has plenty of good qualities, I just don't find it to be vastly superior to other options. As good, sure... just not superior. I wear my CXL FQHH more than my shinki jacket, especially now that it's broken in, but there's things I appreciate about both. I'm curious as to your thoughts on it, what you don't care for, etc (in a purely conversational, non-combative sense haha).

Yeah, I don't mean bad by any means, I just think it doesn't live up to the hype, as you put it. It's fine leather but not better than Horween choices, as the local leathersmith has informed us. I have both and to be honest I sold the shinki and got a brand new horween jacket and had a bit of cash left over. The hype worked for me but I will never pay that kind of price tag for and admittedly fine but faddy hide.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Most tanneries have a minimum order quantity, which can be feasible if you do a group order as a few have done here. Horween sells direct through the Tannery Row and they also have seconds at Maverick Leather (who also have lots of other leathers available). I myself have been trying to source a coated/finished deerskin similar to what LW offers but haven't had any luck.

I have this heavyweight deerskin from Maverick. My first Johnson jacket M-500. It has that typical Horween wax waterproof treatment. It's not as saturated as the LW waterproof treatment, which is more epoxy based I believed, but good enough to get to where I need to go. Every now and then Horween seems to run a batch of these super thick waxed deerskin. Very rustic but very robust hides.
Much like this one now: https://maverickleathercompany.com/product/waxed-deer-light-toast/
Only if they did them in black to hide all the scars.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Should open your own shop. This is more concise information on leather than I've ever seen. Bur I still think shinki is way overrated.

Jackets seems to be tough business to be in. Footwear is a different story. It takes 45sf of leather to make a jacket that retails for a grand. It only takes 4 sf of leather to make a pair of shoes/boots that retails for 400 or more. Lots of century old footwear brands like Alden and Allen Edmonds. Can't think of one leather jacket brand that's been around for the same time. So I've got lots of respect for the small leather jacket shop guys, but I'm staying a customer on this one. haha.

 

[Canuck Panda]

When you say overrated, do you mean "bad" or just "doesn't live up" to the hype of being what some call "the best"? For me, it seems like a fine leather and has plenty of good qualities, I just don't find it to be vastly superior to other options. As good, sure... just not superior. I wear my CXL FQHH more than my shinki jacket, especially now that it's broken in, but there's things I appreciate about both. I'm curious as to your thoughts on it, what you don't care for, etc (in a purely conversational, non-combative sense haha).

I had the same Shinki bug before and that pushed me to look for them. Now looking back, I think the best value is to just find a slightly used Shinki jacket from Japan. They take care of their stuff mostly there so it's really BNWT. If you are going to import your own Shinki, stay with the black SF horse (wax pigment over reddish teacore), it's classic and very good cutting for the maker. The other two can be a hit and miss on scars and broken grains.

 

[Fifty150]

Lots of century old footwear brands like Alden and Allen Edmonds. Can't think of one leather jacket brand that's been around for the same time.

Golden Bear in San Francisco was started in 1922.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Golden Bear in San Francisco was started in 1922.

Are they still operating? I went to their warehouse cash and carry once. Just racks and racks of jackets. Very long time ago...

 

[Rugby]

Jackets seems to be tough business to be in. Footwear is a different story. It takes 45sf of leather to make a jacket that retails for a grand. It only takes 4 sf of leather to make a pair of shoes/boots that retails for 400 or more. Lots of century old footwear brands like Alden and Allen Edmonds. Can't think of one leather jacket brand that's been around for the same time. So I've got lots of respect for the small leather jacket shop guys, but I'm staying a customer on this one. haha.

How about Schott? They're not a small shop but they've been around since 1913

 

[Entropindigo]

I had the same Shinki bug before and that pushed me to look for them. Now looking back, I think the best value is to just find a slightly used Shinki jacket from Japan. They take care of their stuff mostly there so it's really BNWT. If you are going to import your own Shinki, stay with the black SF horse (wax pigment over reddish teacore), it's classic and very good cutting for the maker. The other two can be a hit and miss on scars and broken grains.

Makes sense. I really just threw shinki out there as it was a leather that's on my mind, Clayton as well, but they certainly aren't the only ones (I am still planning to buy a TFH, for the fit and warmth of the black color). I've been considering having JL make an aviator cross zip in some variation of brown and I'm hoping to eventually stumble upon a leather that is a balance between developing defined tunneling/creasing and a little more flexible than the heavy weight horse on the one I have now. The post Tg3 made earlier with the C.F. Stead learner was a shining example of a leather I'd want, tbh.

 

[red devil]

Buying leather to make a jacket tends to be more expensive than just buying from a maker who supplies it. But it can be a lot of fun when you are making something unique.

Shinki is overrated in the sense that people have been hyoing it too much. Before Shinki, CXL had the same status. I think people just can't let go of branding...

When it comes to Shinki, if you get a good batch, it is top end same as CXL, Badalassi and many other Italian leathers (I would add german leathers as well but I do not know enough about them). There are many other top end leathers that we do not know about either.

I have stopped trying to ask for a certain leather tannery a long time ago, instead I just tell the maker what properties I am looking for and they tell what is best. Do you think that we can shoose leather as well as professionals with decades of experience? That is the key point though, you need to choose who you are making your jacket with wisely... In your case, JL is a wise bet, I only have good experiences with them... and two more jackets on the queue.

That is why, if you are sourcing leather, you are better off sourcing something with unique properties, I did it for moose hide and that worked very well.

 

[Aloysius]

How about Schott? They're not a small shop but they've been around since 1913

They're much smaller than people here think. The factory/HQ team is not much bigger than Aero's.

 

[Entropindigo]

Buying leather to make a jacket tends to be more expensive than just buying from a maker who supplies it. But it can be a lot of fun when you are making something unique.

Shinki is overrated in the sense that people have been hyoing it too much. Before Shinki, CXL had the same status. I think people just can't let go of branding...

When it comes to Shinki, if you get a good batch, it is top end same as CXL, Badalassi and many other Italian leathers (I would add german leathers as well but I do not know enough about them). There are many other top end leathers that we do not know about either.

I have stopped trying to ask for a certain leather tannery a long time ago, instead I just tell the maker what properties I am looking for and they tell what is best. Do you think that we can shoose leather as well as professionals with decades of experience? That is the key point though, you need to choose who you are making your jacket with wisely... In your case, JL is a wise bet, I only have good experiences with them... and two more jackets on the queue.

That is why, if you are sourcing leather, you are better off sourcing something with unique properties, I did it for moose hide and that worked very well.

Great advice, thank you. And I'm just kicking around ideas here... when it gets down to bring in the store with Damon, I'll likely just go cxl, as I like it very much on my current jacket from them. Of course, if he has a suggestion while I'm there, I'm all ears.

And I believe you're correct in your assessment that there are likely many great leathers as yet unexplored. It's clearly a daunting array of options out there, and at some point you just gotta choose.

 

[TheDonEffect]

JL has been doing alot of horween steer lately which may fit the bill for you. It definitely develops the creases quickly and moves well. If cxl hh is like cardboard, than the steer is like rubber. But as far as leather character, hard to beat cxl horsehide.