Jerky Horse

[Windward]

Windward, thanks for the great photos. Do you have any shots of the whole jacket? Thanks, Jon

Thanks Jon - here we go, I hope this is what you want to see ... more pics by request



BTW: Its just a 46" but looks much bigger.
Art

 

[ButteMT61]

100% Frank! It may be a "sub-standard" chunk to the makers, but I like it. I like all types really. It's what makes leather so unique.

 

[Jonst]

Nice jacket Art! Thanks for posting. Jon

 

[rocketeer]

All the HH jackets I've owned from different tanneries have pieces that are thinner and very grainy/wrinkly. I imagine a "Jerky" jacket is one made with mostly those pieces. I think it's just "where" it comes from on the hides. I can take some shots of the pieces on my Shinki Ventura hide to show it.Probably indeed a marketing term... but it always makes me hungry when I see it lol

That is just about my thinking as well Scott.
My latest jacket has all smooth hides, that is how it came. Another has one arm a mixture of 'wrinkled' and smooth, that is to say the bit at the shoulder seam is 'Jerky' and the forearm blends to smooth. It does not really detract from the appearance once time has had it's way, I guess if you asked for something that all the hides were smooth or all 'Jerky' then there may be a fair bit of waste and you may have to pay a premium price.
This must have been a common practice for wartime A2s as I had one like this and of course no one could order a jacket then.
J

 

[cloudylemonade]

I had a LONG conversation with Skip and Nick Horween about this .... and NEITHER of them HAD EVER HEARD OF "JERKY" HORSE. In fact, I was asked to give the Aero description. Their view was the more traditional tanners view re. quarters, sides, shells and splits ..... the word "Jerky" was a new one to them.

'Jerky' is a term that came from a conversation between Ken Calder and Mark Moye in the late 1990s. We had given a very grainy vintage Horsehide jacket to a UK Tannery and asked them to replicate the look, grain, finish and weight plus the method of spray finish on a lighter base skin to help produce patina quicker than other tanning/finishing methods.

Straight out of the box light variations in shade and finish are very evident, Mark Moye said it looked just like a piece of 'Beef Jerky'. We decided to use the term 'Jerky' as descriptive of this leather, much like (for instance) 'Victory Horse' a term used Bill Kelso, this doesn’t mean the leather comes from 'First past the post' racehorses, like 'Jerky' it’s just a trade name, much like any style name we would use.

Only a portion of the Horsehide that goes into jackets is actually "Front Quarter" ... in fact about a quarter of it .... typically the Aero order is sides ( which include the front Quarter) ... I have seen it being produced, being put into boxes and shipped from Horween. I imagine the rest will also get the same ... sides or full hides. Other suppliers may vary ... but of the three horsehide suppliers / producers I have visited neither of them knew what "Jerky" Horsehide was !!!!!!

I'm afraid you are quite wrong. Aero have NEVER had sides of Horse from Horween, the value of a Horse skin to Horween is in the Butt or 'Shell', the rear part of each side. There is no way Horween would put the Butt or Shell into a clothing hide, they use this area to produce Shell Cordovan which sells for far, far more than FQHH. Why else would a Shell Cordovan wallet sell for not a lot less than some Horsehide jackets?

If you saw Chrome Excel sides being packed at Horween, I can assure you these must have been steer sides, which are typically twice the size of a Front Quarter. That is why it is impossible to mix Horse Quarters and Steer Sides even though the finish looks virtually identical, one is roughly twice the size of the other.

No other manufacturers would know of the term, as we coined it, so in theory it doesn't really exist, as I previously explained, it's effectively just a brand name used by Aero, tho interestingly a term now being used by another jacket manufacturer for one of their leathers.

From what I have seen "jerky" is a jacket manufaturer term for lighter weight horsehide ( including Chromexcel) ... I used to have an Aero "Jerky" horsehide Highwayman ( they were selling them cheap @ 2005 ) and it was just a touch lighter than my Heavy FQHH Highwayman ... and a little easier to break in.

Again, I'd like to correct something here. We never use this term for Chrome Excel Horse, we use the term "Tumbled" to describe the finish and process used to produce that effect on Horween Front Quarters.

The jerky horsehide Highwayman you have from 2005 is from a completely different horsehide produced in different continents, the American Horse is around 3oz, the horsehide you have here is the other, a European horse which is around 2.25oz to 2.5oz. They are of equal strength however as the Chrome Tanning method use by Horween gives the skins more thickness and stiffness, that’s all.

I hope this answers some questions!

 

[majormajor]

'Jerky' is a term that came from a conversation between Ken Calder and Mark Moye in the late 1990s. We had given a very grainy vintage Horsehide jacket to a UK Tannery and asked them to replicate the look, grain, finish and weight plus the method of spray finish on a lighter base skin to help produce patina quicker than other tanning/finishing methods.

Straight out of the box light variations in shade and finish are very evident, Mark Moye said it looked just like a piece of 'Beef Jerky'. We decided to use the term 'Jerky' as descriptive of this leather, much like (for instance) 'Victory Horse' a term used Bill Kelso, this doesn’t mean the leather comes from 'First past the post' racehorses, like 'Jerky' it’s just a trade name, much like any style name we would use.



I'm afraid you are quite wrong. Aero have NEVER had sides of Horse from Horween, the value of a Horse skin to Horween is in the Butt or 'Shell', the rear part of each side. There is no way Horween would put the Butt or Shell into a clothing hide, they use this area to produce Shell Cordovan which sells for far, far more than FQHH. Why else would a Shell Cordovan wallet sell for not a lot less than some Horsehide jackets?

If you saw Chrome Excel sides being packed at Horween, I can assure you these must have been steer sides, which are typically twice the size of a Front Quarter. That is why it is impossible to mix Horse Quarters and Steer Sides even though the finish looks virtually identical, one is roughly twice the size of the other.

No other manufacturers would know of the term, as we coined it, so in theory it doesn't really exist, as I previously explained, it's effectively just a brand name used by Aero, tho interestingly a term now being used by another jacket manufacturer for one of their leathers.



Again, I'd like to correct something here. We never use this term for Chrome Excel Horse, we use the term "Tumbled" to describe the finish and process used to produce that effect on Horween Front Quarters.

The jerky horsehide Highwayman you have from 2005 is from a completely different horsehide produced in different continents, the American Horse is around 3oz, the horsehide you have here is the other, a European horse which is around 2.25oz to 2.5oz. They are of equal strength however as the Chrome Tanning method use by Horween gives the skins more thickness and stiffness, that’s all.

I hope this answers some questions!

Excellent info, Holly. Thanks for taking the time to put the facts straight

 

[ButteMT61]

Ah, the truth rings out! Well plum, maybe you should bring your notepad next time you chat up the Horweens! lol

 

[triple-d]

@ widward......GREAT JACKET!!!!!!!! CONGRATS!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks for stepping in Holly. I bet you must bite your tongue quite often with the swirl a couple of these new members attempt to lecture everyone else about.
HD

 

[Plumbline]

I can only report what I was told and what I was shown guys .....

So shoot the messenger by all means ... but he has no "skin in this game". The Horse "sides" had no shell portion Holly ( the shoe, bag and belt market as you rightly say is far too lucrative ... particularly shoes )and they were brown not black. There were 3 boxes of steer sides which as you say are much bigger ..... it was only pointed out as we were passing the packing area as the "Aero Order".

Thanks for the info though ..... although the white label inside my jerky highwayman is identical to that inside the Chromexcel ( all the labes are) and it was sold as such. The finish is almost identical also ( will post some pics when I have a second) it just appears a little lighter in weight. It is a GREAT jacket ... and the weight compared to the Chromexel is much preferable to me. I think 2005 predates the "tumbled" description.

What was interesting though from the Horween visit was the number of American Footballs produced and the number of footwear and clothing producers whom Horween supplies ( Timberland / Wilson / Wolverine etc. etc. etc..... quite phenomenol volumes quoted ..... 10,000's of sqft per week.

 

[ButteMT61]

Footballs? I'd like a FQHH football!

 

[pauleway]

So shoot the messenger by all means ... but he has no "skin in this game". The Horse "sides" had no shell portion Holly ( the shoe, bag and belt market as you rightly say is far too lucrative ... particularly shoes )and they were brown not black. There were 3 boxes of steer sides which as you say are much bigger ..... it was only pointed out as we were passing the packing area as the "Aero Order".

Thanks for the info though ..... although the white label inside my jerky highwayman is identical to that inside the Chromexcel ( all the labes are) and it was sold as such. The finish is almost identical also ( will post some pics when I have a second) it just appears a little lighter in weight. It is a GREAT jacket ... and the weight compared to the Chromexel is much preferable to me. I think 2005 predates the "tumbled" description.

What was interesting though from the Horween visit was the number of American Footballs produced and the number of footwear and clothing producers whom Horween supplies ( Timberland / Wilson / Wolverine etc. etc. etc..... quite phenomenol volumes quoted ..... 10,000's of sqft per week.

And let me add, Rawlings - "Heart of the Hide" baseball gloves. (Top of the line baseball glove made fron Horween leather)!

 

[ButteMT61]

And let me add, Rawlings - "Heart of the Hide" baseball gloves. (Top of the line baseball glove made fron Horween leather)!

I've got a new pair of RRL boots. Just like a baseball glove. I wonder if it's their hide? Good to know about the gloves. That's cool.

 

[Grayland]

Footballs? I'd like a FQHH football!

I think this one is steer, but pretty cool regardless.

http://store.kaufmann-mercantile.co...c-bike-sports-play/products/handmade-football

 

[ButteMT61]

Thanks grayland. I dig that. If I could get Joe Kapp to sign it, I'd be a happy man!

 

[Grayland]

Thanks grayland. I dig that. If I could get Joe Kapp to sign it, I'd be a happy man!

I think Joe Kapp would fit right in here on TFL.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...brawl-luncheon-article-1.983542#ixzz1f2BQ3dzk

 

[Swoosed]

I have a "jerky" seal HB, the finish is crap, coming off in specks, not as one would expect. i've had a thread on here about it already. Don't know if its a bad paint job or what but i kept it anyway. the hide broke in like butter, love it but the pigment might not age as you think. Ask for a sample of what they have now, mine was from 2 yrs ago.

 

[polygraphmark]

I don't know how much this helps but here is Ken's answer to my question about Jerky HH.

"All Horsehide used is from the Front Quarter, the Jerky is a softer tanning that the US Chrome Tanned Horse, it is made in Europe