Jazz

[Rundquist]

The album that I always use as a barometer for general ability to appreciate jazz (or music in general) is Stan Getz “Jazz Samba Encore”. I’ve only ever found one person that didn’t appreciate it. That’s saying something. Ironically, the one person was the owner of this site. I pretty much gave up on him musically after that lol.

 

[rmrdaddy]

All the Getz bossa stuff is great. Whether I'd use that as a measuring stick for Jazz is fuzzy for me, but I can tell you know a hawk from a handsaw, no matter the direction of the wind, so I'll pipe down. Nice Elvis Costello quote, BTW

 

[Fletch]

Just a reminder that I'm the one who decides what threads are appropriate and inappropriate here. And I see nothing wrong with this one, as long as the discussion remains civil. So discuss.

There's an old saying: put 2 jazz fans together and you get 3 opinions.

Funnily enough, jazz doesn't inspire contention so much as it seems to appeal to contentious people. What's up with that, I wonder?

Nothing bores me quicker than listening to musicians noodle - meaning that they are throwing out patterns, which, it seems to me, is what the majority of University Jazz programs do, meaning that they are busy pumping out graduates who know lots of theory and lots of patterns but not how to make music that has emotionality.

Styles of jazz that are experimental and cerebral are what they are - musicians searching for something, which is a personal journey and not necessarily for mass consumption. Bop was basically a reaction and rejection of the musical form of it's day - meaning big band swing. I totally understand it; I get bop, as I can understand as a musician what it is like to be tired of something or feel constricted by a doctrine or way of doing things. All art forms evolve, that's the nature of all things. When it fails to deliver to the person creating it an emotional experience then it is no longer art; it becomes an empty repetitive motion.

The jazz grads also have a woeful lack of knowledge about the history of the music. I have lost count of how many times I have encountered bachelor of music grads who have no knowledge of the masters. Then they hear a Ben Webster ballad and they're all at sea. They don't get it.

Uh oh, Chas is about to Get Me Started on academic jazz studies.

Dig, my friend: The reason schooled players often don't have emotional expression, or know the history of the music, is because the music has evolved, and all they are taught is what evolved. What you're hearing is what's left after they threw out everything that was too poppy, too swingy, and too barbershoppy, with rhythm you wanted to dance to and harmony you could learn right on the bandstand.

What I believe effectively happened is that academia took the lessons of bop and repositioned them as a beginning, rather than a reaction to what went before. But why do this?

a) Master musicians could become conservatory professors. They could base a rigorous curriculum of theory, scales, patterns, etc., on the more sophisticated harmonies of bop, teach it to perfection, and indeed, even use it to interpret repertoire that existed before the curriculum - thus making all of jazz a continuing evolution, even tho, if you look closely, we concentrate only on the most evolved phases.

b) With that a given, they wouldn't have to teach what went before at all. This is good from the evolutionary viewpoint, and it also conforms to some hard realities in intellectual life. As a musicologist yourself, you know that pop music is off limits to the academy unless it has obvious social relevance - and the most socially relevant thing about most 20s to 40s pop was how many social groups were kept out of it.

Add a + b and you get, well, not quite institutional prestige - few jazz programs have much - but at least legitimacy, the right to be part of the institution, tho not to expand or change it.

In short, your average college-trained jazz player sounds the way he* does because the curriculum and rigor of jazz is more acceptable to teach than the full experience of it. Indeed, as time passes and jazz's founders are more often interpreted in tribute albums and by carefully vetted repertory bands, the curriculum is on its way to becoming the full experience, redefining jazz history as what it can use.

*The gender reference is intentional: jazz is still the most male-dominated of musics. Anecdote ≠ data, but my entering class at Purchase Conservatory a few years ago contained 105 men and about four women.

 

[dhermann1]

Fletch and Chas: You'll be happy to know that a young friend of mine here in NYC just gave a Master's program recital at Manhattan School of Music that was pure 20's hot jazz. He plays with a dude from Philly named Drew Nugent, and Drew's big hero is Bix. I was sick as a dog that night, but I know that this master's thesis performance would have been completely at home at any American speakeasy in 1928.
There's also a young dude here in the City named Matt Musselman, a Berklee grad, whose band blasts out with the Louis Armstrong classics in fine style. So maybe some of those stodgy college jazz programs are loosening up a little.

 

[davidraphael]

I have hundreds, if not thousands of jazz recordings, and here's one of the most beautiful pieces that I have ever heard:
Lawns by Carla Bley
[video=youtube;YkBU5aM_6zM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkBU5aM_6zM[/video]

 

[Spitfire]

Bourbon Guy - listen to this. If you don't like it, you just don't like jazz. What's the big deal? There are plenty of other kinds of music for you to dig into. And we won't laugh at you if you end up loving musicals...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DTR0I7xhA

 

[motorpsycho67]

Fletch and Chas: obviously neither of you have been to Berklee or the University of North Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_O'Clock_Lab_Band

My father was class of '62.

 

[Rundquist]

Bourbon Guy - listen to this. If you don't like it, you just don't like jazz. What's the big deal? There are plenty of other kinds of music for you to dig into. And we won't laugh at you if you end up loving musicals...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DTR0I7xhA

Oh man. I hate to say it. Sunny Rollins is a legend. St. Thomas is a standard for sure. I just never cared for the tune.

 

[John in Covina]

Jazz was the subject of a Ken Burns PBS TV series quite a few years back and I only caught bits and pieces of the various episodes. I find that there are a wide variety of genres of Jazz that something should appeal to a person that says I don't like Jazz. I have some jazz that is Latin like from Tito Puente in New York late 1940's into the 50's. I like Cal Tjader.

From the Old stuff I like some Dixieland Jazz and the influence that has on some of the earlier stuff. I seem to like a lot Louis Armstrong. I have Heard some Chet Baker jazz that sounded so great like a soundtrack for a b&w film of a rainy night in New York City. I have a variety of CD;s from the Beau Hunks from Basta music that i would say is Jazz that i like.

i have heard some bebop that was good but some just doesn't appeal to me.

 

[hatophile]

Jazz was the subject of a Ken Burns PBS TV series quite a few years back and I only caught bits and pieces of the various episodes. I find that there are a wide variety of genres of Jazz that something should appeal to a person that says I don't like Jazz. I have some jazz that is Latin like from Tito Puente in New York late 1940's into the 50's. I like Cal Tjader.

From the Old stuff I like some Dixieland Jazz and the influence that has on some of the earlier stuff. I seem to like a lot Louis Armstrong. I have Heard some Chet Baker jazz that sounded so great like a soundtrack for a b&w film of a rainy night in New York City. I have a variety of CD;s from the Beau Hunks from Basta music that i would say is Jazz that i like.

i have heard some bebop that was good but some just doesn't appeal to me.

There is also a book out that accompanies the series. I read it about 2 months ago and found it very enjoyable and enlightening. I thought it was an excellent history of the genre.

 

[motorpsycho67]

Jazz was the subject of a Ken Burns PBS TV series quite a few years back

An excellent series!

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Briefly circling back:

Fletch- You crack me up. As I recall, it was your straight, noninsulting reply that caused me to reexamine my long-held negative reaction to jazz in the first place. Thanks. Kind of like Blues 405, right?

Spitfire - thanks for the Sonny Rollins. Sweet. First reaction was "You keep pouring and I'll keep listening," but that's just lazy of me and not fair. I'll find him. Thanks for the reference. I know why I like him. He tells you where he's going, and lets me keep up. Seems more useful at this point to simply follow the siren song of those who speak to me than to analyze those who don't.

Redefining tastes here. Much knowledge on this board. Thanks guys.

 

[motorpsycho67]

Like any other music, jazz can be listened to passively. However, true appreciation rarely happens without some serious listening.

You're on your way Bourbon Guy.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Today - Friday, April 29 - is Duke Ellington's birthday. Check out the annual 24-hour marathon of his music on NYC's WKCR-FM/89.9, and streaming at http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/wkcr/ ("Live Broadcast" links on the upper right).

 

[Miss Moonlight]

Today - Friday, April 29 - is Duke Ellington's birthday. Check out the annual 24-hour marathon of his music on NYC's WKCR-FM/89.9, and streaming at http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/wkcr/ ("Live Broadcast" links on the upper right).

Ah I'm so sorry I missed this. I've been distracted by waiting for news from tornado damaged Alabama.

 

[Chas]

*The gender reference is intentional: jazz is still the most male-dominated of musics. Anecdote ≠ data, but my entering class at Purchase Conservatory a few years ago contained 105 men and about four women.

Unless you are discussing vocalists. The vast majority are women. Very few male jazz students persue vocals as a field of jazz study. With regards to your point about jazz educators using bop as the beginning point; that is what I have been saying for years, and I've heard it from graduates of jazz programs as well. Pre-Coltrane/Parker/Davis musical styles don't get much attention at all. That, and music history is sadly lacking.

Fletch and Chas: obviously neither of you have been to Berklee or the University of North Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_O'Clock_Lab_Band

My father was class of '62.

Not sure what your point is, here. From the link you provide it looks pretty much like a standard jazz program.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Jazz piano

Uh oh. Drinking on Wednesday. Why is my business.

If highbrow jazz piano is just leaving out random notes, then this is Jazz piano ... at my speed.

I always thought the derbies were a nice touch.

[video=youtube;Tbgv8PkO9eo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbgv8PkO9eo[/video]

 

[motorpsycho67]

Not sure what your point is, here. From the link you provide it looks pretty much like a standard jazz program.

Far from it. Many gifted & well known musicians have passed through that program, and both Berklee and U of NT are held in high regard. Any professional musician will tell you that.

As well, do yourself a favor and pick up a recording or three from the One O'Clock Lab Band.