Japanese vs Scotland quality

[Loubios]

Hi all,
I plan to buy very soon a new leather jacket and I was wondering if you could help me to understand the (BIG) difference of price between Japanese manufacturers like The Real Mc Coy, Flat Head, etc…and manufacturers like Aero, Alexander etc…
For my next buy I’am not personally after an exact replica of any kind of jackets but after overall quality. I could push my budget to buy a Mc Coy or a Flat Head but I m not against to save some pennies specially if you tell me than the quality is very similar.
Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Superfluous]

Both the Scottish and the Japanese make fine jackets.

 

[Carlos840]

Personally i don't really think there is a difference, all these jackets are made by hand, so you will find variation in quality and attention to detail in all of them.
I have seen dodgy stitching and small defects in a RMC Buco J-100, i have handled a Flat Head and been disappointed by the leather, i have seen Aeros with wavy stitching, but i have also seen perfect examples from each brands.

All these brands can provide you with an amazing jacket, it just depends what you are after!
Do you want leather choice and ability to customize, are you ok with an off the peg size, or do you need longer sleeves and body than is offered?

All these things are IMO more important than the supposedly amazing Japanese craftsmanship. Although there is a certain mystique about Japanese made goods, it's not like they employ super humans or pixies to make stuff.

To me the difference in price is probably mostly import taxes, and the fact that you are paying a premium for the "made in Japan" tag.

 

[Edward]

Scotland nor Japan (nor even the USA!) have magic leather that makes better jackets - it's all down to the skill and time put into it by the individuals who design the patterns, cut the panels, and sew the jackets. I've handled Real McCoys and Buzz stuff, a few other bits. The Japanese sometimes produce different designs than Scotland. Time was all the really interesting stuff was being done in Japan, but I think Ken has brought some real design flair to the UK since he came back to Aero in 2012. The only significant difference now, I think is that sometimes the Japanese version can be cut slimmer to better flatter the Asian physique - the average Japanese chest size for a man's leather jacket is 38; here in the UK it's 44. I'm at the very top end of what Japan often has to offer, so that can be an issue. Everything else being equal, I tend to go back to Aero because they do what I like, it's closer to home (import tax, shipping, what happens if it needs to be returned - it all adds up - even if you buy via the London outlets, the Japanese stuff is much more expensive here), and if I want some variation from the standard, that can be accomdated, whereas the Japanese stuff that is available to me is all stock or nothing. Really, it's horses for courses. If I lived in Tokyo, I could well find that a Japanese brand was easier for me.

 

[ButteMT61]

The best jacket is the one you like that fits you correctly. All of the above is true. But the work is partly on you to get the numbers and what you really want, before you order.
Depending on where you live, you might have the luxury of trying on some jackets, or using someone like Thurston for fit jackets via Aero, Vanson, etc.
Lots of info on this forum to read. I'd recommend taking your time, and looking around. It's a journey, and you'll likely not find the perfect jacket the first time. Some of us have been here for years, and still seek that "grail" to hang in our closet and wear.
Good luck. It's a lot of fun!

 

[mr_lits]

I think both have excellent leathers and quality craftsman, but I find that the Japanese made goods often fit me oddly. Like they were not quite made for my body type... built with wide squat torsos rather than my long skinny torso. So they end up looking "bagish" on me.

 

[robrinay]

Give me Scottish Single Malt over Japanese any day!

 

[Worf]

The Japanese make NOTHING in my size ergo....

Worf

 

[Stand By]

Welcome to the lounge, Loubios!
I would say that there is no real difference in actual quality between the Japanese manufacturers and the Scottish/English ones you mention. There is a sizeable difference in general price and that is more to do with the Yen and the overall cost of living/overheads in Japan. In this instance, for you as a consumer, the superior costs do not directly relate to any superior quality that you would see. The Japanese do make some choice jackets though and their materials and attention to detail are amazing. And the rep for History Preservation Associates is a most reliable vendor and well worth contacting to chat to about such things.
But more than that, when you buy Japanese, you are buying a stock item from a distributer. If you know your size and feel assured that the jacket in question will fit you well, and you're ok with the price (and consider it as just being the cost of doing business) then I think they're a most reliable bet.
But more than that, when you buy Aero or Simmons Bilt or ELC or Aces High, Aviation Leathercraft or whoever, you are buying a jacket that is made-to-order, and you can call/email these companies and deal directly with them and strike up a one-to-one customer relationship. In doing so, you can contact the various companies and see if there is a difference and preference in who you gravitate to and prefer to deal with. You can ask for samples of swatches and compare them - company-to-company - and in certain instances (depending on where you are) you can try these jackets on and request a slight modification in size (something you can't do with a Japanese jacket) - so you get a more personalized service. These UK companies - or indeed US companies - will also be there for you should you require an alteration or repair service in the future, whereas a Japanese jacket company cannot.
But if you don't require that service - if a Buzz Rickson catalogue from, say HPA or RM will do it, and you know precisely what you want, go for it.
But do take the time to shop around. As Butte says, the hunt for a great jacket is a journey - and one to be enjoyed and to take your time with and consider all your options.
Good hunting!

 

[ButteMT61]

The Japanese make NOTHING in my size ergo....

Worf

I'm with Worf here. I can't even consider the Japanese stuff due to sizing so it's the folks in UK for me! Even though they talk funny, they do have good beers

 

[AdeeC]

If we are just talking about quality of just about anything manufactured, the Japanese won that war against the rest of the world a couple of decades ago.

 

[ButteMT61]

If we are just talking about quality of just about anything manufactured, the Japanese won that war against the rest of the world a couple of decades ago.

They may have jumped ahead for a while but that is no longer the case. Korea's cars now are just as good - maybe better.
I admire the Japanese for lots of things, but the gap - even with some US-made items - has closed back again.

 

[Monitor]

What Edward said - it's just jackets, made of leather, made by people. You'll find some awesome stuff everywhere in the world. People rarely mention Italy, for instance, but they have been making crazy good repros of most of that stuff we're drooling over, decades ago. I've seen many firsthand, you could hardly wish for a better workmanship or a nicer leather (fit, though... Sometimes). India, China, Pakistan, all these countries have been tanning leather for centuries and I know for a fact you could find some really good stuff there, too. Maybe not as easily and maybe not for the shopping mall price-tag most people would expect from these countries, but still... It's all just leather, and it's all just people. Made in China hate is nonsense, really.

In any case, to answer your question, for the price tag of RMC, Aero, Schott, Vanson, Good Wear, Himel, etc., quality is what you're absolutely guaranteed so you can't go wrong with any of these (and some other) brands. Look around, find the design you like and enjoy your jacket - you might even be as lucky!

 

[Fanch]

Give me Scottish Single Malt over Japanese any day!

Preferably Islay!

 

[John Lever]

Scotland. Aero have some machinists who have made several thousand jackets and also new machinists who are excellent. How they fold and sew fqhh is astonishing. The sheepskin is pretty good too.

 

[AdeeC]

Preferably Islay!

Islay Malt is my favourite tasting spirit by miles. Unfortunately whiskey these days gives me a sore head. Have to now settle for fine Cuban rum.

 

[tmitchell59]

When Japanese Leather jackets come up I go here and drool, Rakuten

I was just there and had to leave. Fortunently most of the jackets will not fit me. As already mentioned if you are 44 and up your choices are limited. I do own three Buzz Ricksons Aviators Coats. Two are the same model and both are marked 44. They are very much a 44 and one is really a 46.

The Buzz Ricksons are stunning.

I believe the Japanese Leather jackets/coats are about as good as it gets.

 

[Fury]

Buzz and RMC are top notch but make an extensive research on their sizing. Japanese guys tend to be somehow smaller

 

[Carlos840]

What Edward said - it's just jackets, made of leather, made by people. You'll find some awesome stuff everywhere in the world. People rarely mention Italy, for instance, but they have been making crazy good repros of most of that stuff we're drooling over, decades ago. I've seen many firsthand, you could hardly wish for a better workmanship or a nicer leather (fit, though... Sometimes). India, China, Pakistan, all these countries have been tanning leather for centuries and I know for a fact you could find some really good stuff there, too. Maybe not as easily and maybe not for the shopping mall price-tag most people would expect from these countries, but still... It's all just leather, and it's all just people. Made in China hate is nonsense, really.

In any case, to answer your question, for the price tag of RMC, Aero, Schott, Vanson, Good Wear, Himel, etc., quality is what you're absolutely guaranteed so you can't go wrong with any of these (and some other) brands. Look around, find the design you like and enjoy your jacket - you might even be as lucky!

Agreed, my cousin's husband had a civilian A2 style jacket custom made while on holiday in Morocco. It cost him a bit less than 200€ and it took 48 hours to make between getting measured and picking up the jacket.
It's not the kind of leather us nerds would fall in love with, but it is far nicer than anything you would buy for that price in a store, it fits him perfectly and the craftsmanship is great.

If someone knows how to make a jacket it makes no difference where he lives or where he comes from.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I've experienced both and I have to say that Japanese craftsmanship is a little bit superior IN GENERAL. I know I am not the only person on here who thinks this, despite the fact that nobody else has mentioned it.

The stitching on my Japanese jacket is superior to the Scottish jackets I have seen/owned/tried on and I personally prefer the leather used (though that is more subjective)

That said, the quality of both is similar enough that you are better off going with the design you prefer and what fits you better. Being a fairly short guy (5ft.7.5in), Japanese stuff fits me amazingly well, better than most western designed clothing (this includes shirts as well). Also, my Japanese jacket is exactly what I wanted. They don't offer customization, so if you need that, you'll want to see the guys who wear kilts.

I do agree that the quality gap Japan used to enjoy is not as big as it used to be, but I think it still exists. In a couple years, however, it probably won't at all. Like I said, go with what design/fit you like best because the Scotsmen make amazing jackets. In some cases, the quality is exactly the same if not better with the Scots depending on the jacket itself.

Basically, if there is a difference, it's so minor that it doesn't even matter.