Is this a Cavanagh Edge?

[Feraud]

Can someone tell me if this is what is called a Cavanagh edge?
The edge of the brim appears slightly thicker than the rest of the felt. It looks as if it has been folded. There is no stitching on the top of bottom.



Thanks for looking.

 

[clevispin]

Yes. I think Brad is the resident expert on this.

m

 

[WEEGEE]

YES

And Yes...where is the hat from...inform...thanks

 

[Andykev]

It's a Cav

Yes, it is a Cavanagh Edge. The hat was edged during the FELTING process, which is very time consuming. The welted edges of today are folded, ironed, stitched, and / or glued.

I love a great bound edge, but a fine Cavanagh Edge is wonderful, and the mark of true quality.

They licensed their process to other hat makers.

 

[jake_fink]

That's a great looking hat. Any pics of it in situ (ie: on your head)?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Yes. I think Brad is the resident expert on this.

m

Not quite!lol

I've dug a bunch into the history of the Edge, but there are folks on the lounge - particularly those with large collections - that have seen far more of them than I ever have.

Nice to be considered, though!

Good looking hat and Cavanagh Edge example there, Feraud.

Brad

 

[jml90]

Yes, it is a Cavanagh Edge. The hat was edged during the FELTING process, which is very time consuming. The welted edges of today are folded, ironed, stitched, and / or glued.

I love a great bound edge, but a fine Cavanagh Edge is wonderful, and the mark of true quality.

They licensed their process to other hat makers.

Thanks for the explanation I was quite curious as to what was speical about it.

 

[Feraud]

Thanks for the information fellas! I have been wondering for a while about this edge.
The hat is a Duff brand hat out of Philadelphia. I bought it from a Lounge member.

The weather in NYC has been rainy for the past couple of days. I like wearing it with a trench coat. This is the best pic I could get of the Duff in action..

It also looks good with an A2 style bomber.
I am planning on sending it to Art for a fix. The sweatband lost a couple of stitches and I am being extra careful about handling it.

 

[Matt Deckard]

More stable edge.

The felt is rejoined to itself while the body is being made. Rather than stitching it over creating an over or underwelt... it is a welt with no stitching.

I myself like them better than bound edges because the bound edge sometimes shrinks causing more of a curl in the brim than the hat had before.

They did the Cavanagh, Self Felted, Mode, Custom edges up until the 60's

Some hatters are now claiming it is a sign that the felt was weak so they had to do the Cav edge to makeup for thinner felt. This is wrong. The cav edge is not a cheap process and was on many of the higher end hats of the day... some costing up to a dollar more in the 30's when compared to their nob Cav edge counterparts.

You will find plenty of thin felted high end hats... they were thin because they could be. I see many hatters today sticking to thick dress hats because their thin hats don't hold up...

The vintage thin hats are jewels and they last extremely well. Still can't beat vintage.

 

[Feraud]

Does the Cavanagh edge contribute to what creates a "snap brim" or is that for another thread?

 

[Matt Deckard]

Snap brim is pretty much a termm for a hat that has a curl all the way around. Doesn't need to snap, though the tighter stiffer hats from the 60's did.

Snap brim is a refference to a fedora or porkpie or other like hats with a tight curl all the way around that can be turned down.

In this case it can have any edge styling

 

[Feraud]

Thank you for clarifying that!

 

[feltfan]

The felt is rejoined to itself while the body is being made. Rather than stitching it over creating an over or underwelt... it is a welt with no stitching.

As James Powers pointed out and Brad Bowers proved
with the patents, the Cavanagh Edge was not a welt with
no stitching, but an (over)welt with the stitches *removed*.
The felting then covered up the stitch holes and folded edge.
I have an old Cavanagh (as seen in the "beaters" thread) where
you can start to see the holes where the thread once was.

Some hatters are now claiming it is a sign that the felt was weak so they had to do the Cav edge to makeup for thinner felt. This is wrong.

This is truly a laugh. Cavanagh felt from the good old days
is as tough as it gets. Dense, thick, and soft. The licensed
edges I have seen on Dobbs, Stetson, Stevens, and (if they paid license)
Borsalino hats were all on top knotch felt hats.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Lookin' Good with the Hat and trench, Feraud! :eusa_clap
NB

 

[Zach R.]

Great to see that my Duff has a good home.:eusa_clap

About time you put up some pics.

 

[Matt Deckard]

As James Powers pointed out and Brad Bowers proved
with the patents, the Cavanagh Edge was not a welt with
no stitching, but an (over)welt with the stitches *removed*.
The felting then covered up the stitch holes and folded edge.
I have an old Cavanagh (as seen in the "beaters" thread) where
you can start to see the holes where the thread once was.



This is truly a laugh. Cavanagh felt from the good old days
is as tough as it gets. Dense, thick, and soft. The licensed
edges I have seen on Dobbs, Stetson, Stevens, and (if they paid license)
Borsalino hats were all on top knotch felt hats.

It's still funny to me to see hatters who want you to believe their felt is better than some of the vintage, though trapse all over the past by saying techniques used back then like the Cav edge and edge binding were to show lesser quality. The truth always comes out on the end when the vintage commercial production hat keeps getting worn and most moderns from event he most reputable hatters get set aside due to early holes being worn in the felt. bent brims or shrinking.

 

[WEEGEE]

One Question

In all my reading the one thing that seems to be true in hat history is

the idea of the commercial production hat was to sell more?

true or false

 

[Matt Deckard]

Clarify what you mean. Alot of times the assembly line items can be much better than custom jobs... especially if the techniqes are perfected. Hat companies are slaves to what their felters produce... hatters can't make a felt better than what gets sent to them by the factory.

So one custom hatter can get the same felt as another... the difference is only in the finish, though the felt will wear the same.

 

[WEEGEE]

planned obsolescence

Please don't get me wrong i like my vintage hats but at this point

i do not have a handle on the quality differential ( i may not own nor seen the right vintage) and prefer my custom hats.

i do like the quality of some vintage leather sweats more.

regards,

WeeGee



Planned obsolescence (also built-in obsolescence (UK)) is the conscious decision on the part of an agency to produce a consumer product that will become obsolete and/or non-functional in a defined time frame. Planned obsolescence has great benefits for a producer in that it means a consumer will buy their product repeatedly, as their old one is no longer functional or desirable. It exists in many different products from vehicles to lightbulbs, from buildings to software. There is, however, the potential backlash of consumers that become aware of such obsolescence; such consumers can shed their loyalty and buy from a company that caters to their desire for a more durable product.
Planned obsolescence was first developed in the 1920s and 1930s when mass production had opened every minute aspect of the production process to exacting analysis.
Estimates of planned obsolescence can influence a company's decisions about product engineering; there is little business reason to make a product that lasts longer than anyone is expected to use it. Therefore the company can use the least expensive components that satisfy product lifetime projections. Such decisions are part of a broader discipline known as value engineering.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Well if planning to be obsolete is what you are worried about... I never sat in on those meetings.

With the hat industry waning and competition getting heavy, I'm not sure if making a hat that wears out faster than your competitions was a good idea. You saw what happened to Cadillac in the 80's... they lost their rep, and people always harked back to how good they were in the 30's 40's and 50's.

I do know what I have seen, and that is that I'll take vintage assembly line over modern custom... the best of the best modern still shrink. With my love of the high crown, I prefer to stick to the vintage as they keep that high crown in pretty much all weather to which i have submitted them.