Is Hat Ettiquette Obsolete?

[Huertecilla]

I wonder how much hat etiquette was followed in its supposed heyday. Right now I'm watching House of Strangers, a 1949 film set in 1932. There's a scene in it in an indoor stadium for a boxing match. At least half of the people watching are wearing their hats, men and women included. I just found it curious, because of this thread I not only noticed all the nice hats, but I began to wonder why they were wearing them. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it.

The etiquette of manners has always been a distinction between the educated (in them) and less well educated.

As to a boxing match I have no idea how this follows the various rules in the US at that time as in these they can be conflictive.
I would expect that it would follow the same logic as in a cinema regarding not obstructing the view. I would certainly expect that today although in the bull ring the sun side follows a different priority, making the shade side forget the ´rude´ obstruction.

 

[Tomasso]

Is hat etiquette obsolete?

Yes.

 

[vintage.vendeuse]

Social patterns represent different things to different folks. When I look at the lower right of the photograph posted by Fashion Frank in post 13 of this thread, I see an unaccompanied woman experiencing a show of attention from a group of men. Whether it is appreciated or not is unclear. What is known is that she won't have the right to vote for another decade.

My first impression was to note that of the five men, only one was reaching for his hat. And I wondered, was it out of respect or was the gesture accompanied by a leer and/or rude comment? We'll never know.

I grew up in 1960's America, the product of European parents. My father was a white-collar worker who wore a hat every day. Not only did he practice the hat etiquette of the time, he also kissed the hands of (fellow European) friends' wives whenever he met them. I used to look forward to the day when a man would kiss my hand.

By my early twenties, hat-wearing men had already disappeared... or so I thought. I began dating a man who seemed to be a throwback. He wore hats, held open my car door, and even kissed my hand. But did I enjoy this? No. That was because he was an attention-whore. He seemed to do all these things because he loved to have strangers look over and notice/admire him for his unusual manly actions. He did everything with a flourish. If he'd been discreet and unassuming, performing these actions in the subtle, natural manner in which they used to be performed, I would have loved it.

But I've gone off on a tangent from the original topic. Is hat etiquette dead? In America, for the most part, it seems so. But that doesn't mean you can't create small pockets of resurgence, should you choose to. And I hope you do! In a similar vein, I insist that my teens address adults as Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss, despite many adults instructing them to call them by their first names. It's one of several pieces of past etiquette that I personally will not let go, no matter what anyone else thinks. And I don't presume to judge other parents on how they may handle it, I understand that it's a different world now. This is just the way we do things in our family.

 

[fashion frank]

I used to look forward to the day when a man would kiss my hand.


If he'd been discreet and unassuming, performing these actions in the subtle, natural manner in which they used to be performed, I would have loved it.

But I've gone off on a tangent from the original topic. Is hat etiquette dead? In America, for the most part, it seems so. But that doesn't mean you can't create small pockets of resurgence, should you choose to. And I hope you do! In a similar vein, I insist that my teens address adults as Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss, despite many adults instructing them to call them by their first names. It's one of several pieces of past etiquette that I personally will not let go, no matter what anyone else thinks. And I don't presume to judge other parents on how they may handle it, I understand that it's a different world now. This is just the way we do things in our family.

First off thanks for weighting in s it always makes for good conversation.

I notice how you stated that you would look forward to the day when a man would kiss your hand .
Case in point , I think all women want to be treated with a certain amount of respect ,IE : be it a kiss on the hand or the opening of a car door etc etc.

Second case in point , I never make a spectacle of my self but I always do try to have manners .
Last point you are 100% correct in how children should address grown up's .

All of my neighbors and myself included make sure that our children address us with the MR or Miss , for example the kids next door call me Mr. Frank and my daughter calls their mom Miss Cathy , as you also pointed out we are creating our own little pocket of how things should be done .
Hopefully it not only rubs off on them but they will then in turn "pass it around " to their peers.

All the Best , Fashion Frank

 

[Huertecilla]

Case in point , I think all women want to be treated with a certain amount of respect ,IE : be it a kiss on the hand or the opening of a car door etc etc.

Women, like men, want to feel special.
In a romantic relationship it is (unique) personal and respectfull attention.
The mentioned manners are a form, as is your earlier mentioned well groomed appearance. That, the attention to personal appearance when like going out/being together, makes a woman (and man), feel appreciated.

Imo well groomed attire like is the subject of this Forum thus fundamentally goes in hand with good manners, etiquette, including hat etiquette whether the population in the middle of the road gets that or not.

 

[vintage.vendeuse]

I think all women want to be treated with a certain amount of respect

Absolutely. And I'm sure men do, too.

Unfortunately, I got the feeling that the man I was dating was more interested in making himself feel special with his display of traditional-style etiquette. It was more about him, not me. He seemed to be putting on a show, not a show of respect.

 

[fedoracentric]

I wonder how much hat etiquette was followed in its supposed heyday. Right now I'm watching House of Strangers, a 1949 film set in 1932. There's a scene in it in an indoor stadium for a boxing match. At least half of the people watching are wearing their hats, men and women included. I just found it curious, because of this thread I not only noticed all the nice hats, but I began to wonder why they were wearing them. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it.

The idea of taking a hat off indoors did not hold for every indoor situation because of common sense, really. If you were inside a sports stadium along with 2,000 other guys and took your hat off because you were "in doors" where exactly would you put it? You would leave it on your head, that's where.

Hats off indoors was mostly for social gatherings or official visits of some sort. Or places where you needed to be respectful of inhabitants.

For instance, if you went to a dance or formal ball, hats off. And they'd have had a place to check your hat and coat.

Expensive movie theaters had a hat and coat check place, too, but at cheaper movie houses you'd put your hat on your lap. So hats off indoors.

But inside stores you'd not take your hat off because you were there to shop and it wasn't a "social setting." You would be moving around, not spending time in a single place.

Also, if you were at a museum or inside a building at a fair or convention no hats off. Again because you are moving around, not there to stay in one place.

Hats off in Church out of respect, of course. And a church would have hooks and places for hats and coats, too.

Hats off in people's homes and in government offices without question.

At work, hats off in an office setting working at a desk but hats can stay on if you are a factory worker of some type (depending on your job, granted).

What I am saying is that "hats off indoors" was not a 100%, all encompassing rule. It was conditional.

 

[Huertecilla]

What I am saying is that "hats off indoors" was not a 100%, all encompassing rule. It was conditional.

I was not aware that this was an issue.

It is just that times have changed and as such conditions too, the contents of etiquette. follows. The idea however remains the same:
When your head is covered for whatever reason you tip or uncover it as a friendly or respectfull gesture. If circumstances make this impractical you are excused.

 

[Latoso]

What I am saying is that "hats off indoors" was not a 100%, all encompassing rule. It was conditional.

Thanks fedoracentric! You brought up lots of good points that I hadn't considered. Needless to say, one had to be very aware of each and every situation they found themselves in. But I guess if you were raised in that environment it eventually became second nature.

 

[Historyteach24]

I take my hat off at church and dinner that is it. My hat stays on otherwise

 

[DJH]

I'm with you on this, Matt.

For me, the old hat etiquette is long dead and I don't have any interest in following the old rules.

While I like to weak old hats & learn the history of the times and the hat companies, I don't want to act like I live in the 20's, 30's, etc.

Times change and behavior changes too, there's a lot more to worry about than doffing one's hat - heck I don't even know how to "doff" although doing a bit of doffing sounds like it should be fun

 

[splintercellsz]

I usually remove my hat when I go Indoors out of habit, but if it's a store, etc I try to leave it on... But habits die hard!

 

[Matt Crunk]

I'm with you on this, Matt.

For me, the old hat etiquette is long dead and I don't have any interest in following the old rules.

While I like to weak old hats & learn the history of the times and the hat companies, I don't want to act like I live in the 20's, 30's, etc.

Times change and behavior changes too, there's a lot more to worry about than doffing one's hat - heck I don't even know how to "doff" although doing a bit of doffing sounds like it should be fun

Personally I miss the etiquette and manners as well as the style. I believe a great deal of what's wrong with society today is the breakdown of etiquette and refinement. Seems like in the "good old days" even those who weren't very refined at least aspired to be. Nowadays they aspire to be nothing more than thugs or stoners.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I'm with you on this, Matt.

For me, the old hat etiquette is long dead and I don't have any interest in following the old rules.

While I like to weak old hats & learn the history of the times and the hat companies, I don't want to act like I live in the 20's, 30's, etc.

Times change and behavior changes too, there's a lot more to worry about than doffing one's hat - heck I don't even know how to "doff" although doing a bit of doffing sounds like it should be fun

I agree that I don't want to live in the 1920's or 30's, but I don't have the slightest interest in anything "vintage" or care in the least if my hat's ribbon is 1/32th of an inch wider than the kind one would have seen in 1926. I don't wear a hat to be different, to express any individuality, or as a fashion accesory. I'm not a collector, and I don't have a "rotation". A hat is a functional piece of my wardrobe, like shoes. It keeps my head warm when it's cold and shaded when the sun is out.

All of that said, for me hat etiquette is alive and well, not because I'm trying live in a past era, but because it's simply polite manners and shows respect to others around me. Removing your hat when entering someone's home is no more obsolete than not putting your elbows on the table or not farting in church, even if it's unlikely you'd be called out for either. It is also somewhat regional. Where I was raised and where I live, not "doffing" your hat when you greet a lady will not get you punched in the nose, but it's almost certain that you will be viewed by some as an uncultured oaf. I agree that nowadays many people assume they are the center of it all and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Of course, I am a well-known hat heretic here at the FL, so it's probably best not to follow my advice on anything.

 

[fedoracentric]

I care very much about the finer points and don't consider a hat to be "just a hat."

However, I don't want to live in the 20s or 30s either. No McDonald's, no air conditioning, people only living until they are 50, World Wars... no thank you.

 

[hatguy1]

Personally I miss the etiquette and manners as well as the style. I believe a great deal of what's wrong with society today is the breakdown of etiquette and refinement. Seems like in the "good old days" even those who weren't very refined at least aspired to be. Nowadays they aspire to be nothing more than thugs or stoners.

:arated:

 

[fashion frank]

Personally I miss the etiquette and manners as well as the style. I believe a great deal of what's wrong with society today is the breakdown of etiquette and refinement. Seems like in the "good old days" even those who weren't very refined at least aspired to be. Nowadays they aspire to be nothing more than thugs or stoners.

Big +1 on the loss of manners and class in this country !

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Huertecilla]

I care very much about the finer points and don't consider a hat to be "just a hat."

However, I don't want to live in the 20s or 30s either. No McDonald's, no air conditioning, people only living until they are 50, World Wars... no thank you.

Going back a century would not be such a good choice but half a century? Yes PLEASE!
No Mac would be a food quality/culture improvement (we eat home made bread from self milled grain, meat from home slaughter; my son loathes Mac as he knows good food), we prefer common sense to airco and no world war?? We are in the middle of the worst war ever! The war against civil rights and we are losing it big time.

Just like with etiquette: all of it may be a bit much but some of would be an improvement of the present absence of refinement and - appreciation of quality.

 

[Huertecilla]

All of that said, for me hat etiquette is alive and well, not because I'm trying live in a past era, but because it's simply polite manners and shows respect to others around me.

Hear, hear.

And that is all it ever was. See the dutch bit.

 

[Florida_Marlin]

Yesterday I was in the sitting area of a crowded restaurant, sitting at a table with my hat on the table across from me. I had taken the last table, a small table for two, in the restaurant. A man came in, looking for a place to sit, looked like he had been working all day. I picked up my hat, put it on my head, and invited him over...one of those young ruffians with a ball cap turned backwards. We sat there and ate and talked about our days, both busy but quite different in our activities. Two rude dudes, who have no respect for those around them and only care for themselves. When I got ready to leave, he returned the favor and called the next guy over looking for a seat, some hatless/capless dude. As I was leaving the hatless man said, " hey, nice hat! Where'd you get it". I stood at the table and talked to Mr. Hatless for several minutes, the entire conversation predicated by me wearing my hat indoors, in the dining area of an eating establishment.

Manners, politeness, and caring for those around you don't have anything to do with frivolous, superficial things like wearing a hat in a dining area...or not. There was no indication that anybody in there was offended by the hat/cap wearing. But I know for a fact that 3 people, a hat wearer at the table, a cap wearer at the table, and a hatless man, all had a nice dinner with some good conversation.

Regards, Florida Marlin