Is Hat Ettiquette Obsolete?

[fedoracentric]

For some topics that get repeated I do think it is beating a dead horse. We get enough membership turnover, at least in participation, that every time this one comes up there are many new participants and the responses have some of the same and also some new. I am enjoying this one as much as the last ones.

That is an attitude that I wish more people would adopt.

 

[Huertecilla]

Again "when the mayority is not aware of etiquettes" it is NOT etiquette.
Etiquette is only etiquette when the majority of people in a society understand it to be so.

I suggest you ponder a bit about that.
I agree with part of your argument but not all.

P.e. the vast mayority of society never ever has had a clue about black tie or such diner etiquette yet is still exists. Yes even today, maybe more exclusively or perhaps just as it always was, intentional and all.

Etiquette is also intentionally socially exclusive! and as such thas etiquette inherently NOT understood by the mayority.

I wonder where exclusive etiquette and secret ritual meet.

 

[Huertecilla]

That is an attitude that I wish more people would adopt.

The repeating cycle is an inherent and deliberate property of fora.
If the information were better organised, they would be FAR less active and run the risk of becoming inactive, of becoming extinct even as someone newly interested would find easily accesible databases and have very little motive to join less still write on a forum.
Hail newbies repeating question, starting already covert subject as they keep fora going :eusa_clap AND provide fuel for the old farts to complain about...

 

[Claudio]

Remove my hat when I am introduced to someone elderly (hand shake) or if I am to greet a lady (here in Spain that means kssing both cheeks); if I enter a home, at a table, a restaurant, bar, church etc and not in Mall. I remove my hat when I am at the counter of a bank or post office .... also always remove my hat when I am speaking to an elder (as in a brief conversation along the street). I am 46 and am trying to teach my 16 year old daughter the basics of hat etiquette. That said I am not always in a hat I must admit.

 

[suitedcboy]

I trust that members here all exhibit proper to the situation etiquette. I would say my expression of it is thoughtful but I also temper that with the fact that I have hats to wear on my head. Having them sit on hooks, in chairs, under my arm, or in my hands when it is of no consequence to those around is to me contrary to owning them for wear. Excessive hat removal seems to me to show that I am ashamed of my headwear. Not removing it when appropriate shows that I am impolite. Showing one's ugly crushed hair pink skin from the resulting shade must be considered also.

Not that it is directly related but many persons I encounter that I would assume would have higher standards of etiquette show me their disregard of such by speaking on a cell phone in semi-personal and even personal spaces. If the cell phone is on then so is my hat. If you end the call then I take off my hat.
My research of hat etiquette tells me that it comes from the time when hats were used as a part of outerwear and hat and coat were worn and then removed indoors typically. Not removing a hat indoors in that context was seen as not returning the graciousness of the host and showing that you can't stay.
In my home you are encouraged to wear your hat. If you stay overnight and you want to prop up so you can wear it in your sleep then I'll provide extra pillows. I'm sitting here with my hat on typing this. I hope you are wearing yours reading this. How else are we to keep them from shrinking? I can't afford that many hat stretchers/forms.

 

[RBH]

.....
In my home you are encouraged to wear your hat. If you stay overnight and you want to prop up so you can wear it in your sleep then I'll provide extra pillows. I'm sitting here with my hat on typing this. I hope you are wearing yours reading this. Ho else are we to keep them from shrinking? I can't afford that many hat stretchers/forms.

I love Texas...and would like to visit you sometime.
I now know I would be welcome.


Well said.

 

[Joe Rotax]

I hope you are wearing yours reading this.

I am wearing it actually....lol

Stetson Range, got home about an hour ago, made a cup of coffee and haven't got around to taking the hat off yet.

 

[CRH]

I let the environment dictate my etiquette or lack thereof. I will dictate, however, that the lid always comes off for funeral processions and flag raisings.

BTW, where can I find some good mojo?

 

[fashion frank]

Here is another example of what I was refering to eariler,look at the middle of the photo, there are two young guys "tipping " but not doffing their hats.
Dosen't look to tuff to me.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/12630?size=_original#caption

Just something that I love about this picture, the hatless male's are few
http://www.shorpy.com/node/12738?size=_original#caption

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[TheDane]

Don't get me wrong. I do keep a reasonable hat etiquette - knowing, I'm "off", wearing a fedora in the first place. I couldn't care less, what other hat wearers do or don't do with their hats. I keep some hat etiquette for my own sake - probably nobody cares, what I do with my hat in 2014.

I was raised with a fork in my left hand and a knife in my right, and when I soon move to the U.S. I won't alter that habit. Many Americans eat with only a fork, so I'll probably be "off" or "strange" in many situations - but it's not "wrong" to eat with or without a knife. Only a small minority of the population of the World use a fork - and even fewer a knife at the same time.

I absolutely believe, that respect, politeness and courtesy are the oils that make any social relationship work. It's important though, that the "oil" is recognized as "oil", to be able to lubricate all parts. As others have already pointed out, hat etiquette today is only for the very few "nerds".

What really can sicken me, is the fact, that people who call for more respect, politeness, etiquette and class, very often do this in a loud, pompous and self-righteous tone - totally cleansed of respect for others. It's great to have ideals in life, but one should look outward for idols ... not inward! One thing is absolutely sure: A fedora on the head makes no gentleman on it's own!

Hereby I have stated my opinion as clearly as I can, and I will restrain from further comments in this thread

 

[CRH]

Here is another example of what I was refering to eariler,look at the middle of the photo, there are two young guys "tipping " but not doffing their hats.
Dosen't look to tuff to me.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/12630?size=_original#caption

Just something that I love about this picture, it's hard to spot a hatless male
http://www.shorpy.com/node/12738?size=_original#caption

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

I dunno. Maybe they're just gang bangers sending signals? Maybe they're just society newbies? Maybe they're just adjusting their lids?

I dunno.

 

[fashion frank]

Don't get me wrong. I do keep a reasonable hat etiquette - knowing, I'm "off", wearing a fedora in the first place. I couldn't care less, what other hat wearers do or don't do with their hats. I keep some hat etiquette for my own sake - probably nobody cares, what I do with my hat in 2014.

I absolutely believe, that respect, politeness and courtesy are the oils that make any social relationship work. It's important though, that the "oil" is recognized as "oil", to be able to lubricate all parts. As others have already pointed out, hat etiquette today is only for the very few nerds.

My Good Man Mr. Dane ,while I agree with the first half of your statement I would also like to state that I try to dress well and wear my hats only to please myself and no one else and I also try to have some "class" whenever and wherever I may be, however I must disagree with the second half of your statement that "hat etiquette today is only for the very few nerds", I beg your pardon good sir but I for example am no nerd ( I know you were not referening me in particular) and I don't think trying to be polite ( even if others dont know or realize that you are ) is being nerdy.

Also let me state for the record that the last thing that I ever wish to have on this Forum is a confrontation with anyone , this is a gentlemens Forum and that is what I like about it , we can agree to disagree and it makes for lively discourse , so please dont " restrain from further comments in this thread " unless as Alan has already so perfectly pointed out that at this point in the conversation we have pretty much "covered all the bases" !

All the Best to you , Fashion Frank

 

[RBH]

I let the environment dictate my etiquette or lack thereof. I will dictate, however, that the lid always comes off for funeral processions and flag raisings.

BTW, where can I find some good mojo?

I can help you out on the mojo my friend!
Great to 'see'* you again!



*{while tipping my hat}

 

[CRH]

I can help you out on the mojo my friend!
Great to 'see'* you again!



*{while tipping my hat}

It's nice to see that the clientele around here doesn't change much. Cheers, Bro!


:cheers1:

 

[fedoracentric]

P.e. the vast mayority of society never ever has had a clue about black tie or such diner etiquette yet is still exists. Yes even today, maybe more exclusively or perhaps just as it always was, intentional and all.

Etiquette is also intentionally socially exclusive! and as such thas etiquette inherently NOT understood by the mayority.

This is a load of nonsense.

The lowest ditch digger may not have known every last bit of "fan language" or black tie gobbledegook, but he DID know what etiquette was and DID know what the basics were. Whether he practiced them or not is another thing. But it is absurd to say that the average Joe was completely uninformed about etiquette.

Or maybe, I should speak only for Americans? The lowly rabble of Europe may have been less educated in the days when etiquette was a must for social acceptance at all levels. But etiquette and books on the same were very, very popular in the USA from the 1700s until the 1950s and every American--no matter his station--knew what it was and generally strove to exhibit good manners and proper etiquette.

You see, every American felt he had the chance to make it to that genteel social order. Whereas Europeans were born to their lowly existence and many had little interest in trying to "act upper class." Americans all thought of themselves as "upper class" to the degree that they wanted to be thought of as accomplished, erudite, and up-and-coming.

But then all the formality went away as a result of the loathsome Baby Boomer generation.

Now, the me-I-me generation has no interest or knowledge of etiquette thanks to their idiot parents and grand parents.

Anyway, I disagree 100% with your claim that etiquette wasn't understood by the majority. In America it was a well-known societal norm and only the most ignorant eschewed it utterly.

Still, I'll grant you one thing. Maybe I was too broad before when I made it seem I was talking about the "majority" of a population. Maybe we should say, rather, that the majority of a social strata understands etiquette and that makes it a standard.

Still, I'd counter that even in today's highest social strata (in the USA) there is little understanding about the old etiquette in general and hat etiquette in particular. Everyone is too worried about "my rights" to do whatever I want and once common standards of behavior have been thrown by the wayside.

Now when someone is acting boorishly, a stern look to him will cause him to react as if he'd been insulted and he'll start swearing and pointing fingers to inform you that he can do whatever the hell he wants. There is no shame, no standards, and no proper comportment.

Well, anyway, I guess I've said about all I can say so, like TheDane, I'll let this be my last word (probably).

 

[fashion frank]

I like This Guy !

Fedorcentric , I like what you have stated to paraphrase "even a ditchdigger know right from wrong ,whether he acts on it is a different matter altogether".

That being said both you and the Dane have a right to express your opinion in so long as it is done respectfully which you both have done .
I enjoy the lively discussion and that is one thing that makes this forum so nice to be on !

Having one viewpoint or another makes no one right but I actually enjoy it when soneone's viewpoint is different from mine because it allows me to see it from the other mans perspective ,I might not agree with it I might even think that they are " wrong " ( not even the correct word here ) but thats what its all about .

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Mystic]

Different opinions different views.

In strict hat etiquette I fail splendidly as I do in any other etiquette. I try to be respectful of others when wearing a hat or not wearing a hat without being overly concerned about whether I'm doing it correctly or not. No one has ever accused me of being the dogmatic sort.

I can not know if others are offended by how I wear my hat or if they even care. But, if anyone is offended by how I wear my hat....

They no doubt will be offend by what I have to say......[huh]

 

[RBH]

It's nice to see that the clientele around here doesn't change much. Cheers, Bro!


:cheers1:

The clientele has evolved ... but most of us bartenders have stayed the same.

 

[Latoso]

I wonder how much hat etiquette was followed in its supposed heyday. Right now I'm watching House of Strangers, a 1949 film set in 1932. There's a scene in it in an indoor stadium for a boxing match. At least half of the people watching are wearing their hats, men and women included. I just found it curious, because of this thread I not only noticed all the nice hats, but I began to wonder why they were wearing them. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Huertecilla]

For the dutch members; ´Het Blauwe Boekje´ is very much alive and available on line; http://www.hetblauweboekje.nl/

About hats it has an interesting mention:

´Het afnemen van de hoed, of lichtjes aanraken, is vergelijkbaar met het salueren in de militaire etiquette. Het komt voort uit het gebruik van ridders in de Middeleeuwen die het masker van hun harnas omlaag deden als teken van vriendelijkheid, en dus het tegenovergestelde van vijandigheid. Het was een kwestie van vertrouwen winnen.´

= ´Taking off the hat, or touching it, is comparable with saluting in military etiquette. It originates in the custom of medieval knights who dropped their guard/raised their visor as a friendly salut, contrary to hostility. It was a sign of confidance.´