IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[Smithy]

Beautiful collection of Irvins Windsock! You need to move up here to Scandinavia so you can get more wear out of them


OK, as promised I have made some detail snaps and added some thoughts on the 1940 Pattern Eastman. This is because I have received quite a few PMs from people asking about my jacket, and asking for advice as they are thinking of purchasing one. Rather than send off several PMs about the same thing, I thought I'd post this here for those thinking about picking up a 1940 ELC. Sorry those of you who PMed me have had a wait a little while for this.

I've had the jacket for over a month now and it has been worn over a dozen times (getting chillier here in Norway). It's very much worn in (creased where my body moves) and is very, very comfortable. You'll probably find that the armpit construction (with ventilation holes) is the area where you feel the jacket the most initially, but after half a dozen wearings you'll find this adapts to you and fits perfectly.

In terms of fit, here is some important information. I wear a 40'' shirt and jacket but my Irvin is 42''. This turned out to be the perfect (and I mean perfect) fit for me, the jacket is both comfortable with just a shirt but I have plenty of room to wear a t-shirt, shirt and thick jumper. I nearly went for a 44'' but I am so pleased I didn't as with just a shirt I am certain I would've looked swamped in the thing. This is just my advice, but whatever shirt/dress jacket size you wear go up 2 inches and it should be the best fit.

In terms of length of my Irvin, I am 6' 1'' tall and I had an extra 1 and a half inches added to the length of the sleeves and body. This is more than Eastman's Long sizings which add only an inch to both. For me this extra length is perfect and means the jacket sits around an inch - inch and a half past the bottom of my trouser belt. Remember Irvins were made to be worn with Irvin trousers so they can be short. If you are tallish, not RAF reenacting with Irvin trousers and don't wish the jacket to be too short for everyday wear for goodness sake ask for some extra length. For me the extra inch and a half was just right.

Overall as I have said before I am over the moon about my jacket, everything about it is spot on, and I would heartily recommend a 1940 Pattern Eastman Irvin to anyone wishing to have a great reproduction of the quintessential RAF flying jacket. In all honesty I am so thrilled with it, I would've paid double, it turned out that good.

Here's some detail shots. The flash was used which makes the jacket appear redder than when viewed in natural light.

Oh and by the way, which may interest the chaps here, women go nuts for the Irvin, absolutely completely doolally over it

 

[Spitfire]

"Oh and by the way, which may interest the chaps here, women go nuts for the Irvin, absolutely completely doolally over it "
lol lol lol
And I still have two, three weeks to wait...

 

[Alan Eardley]

I commented recently that I was disposing of my collection of WW2 items as part of a pre-retirement 'downsizing' operation. As I was given things by WW2 veterans or their relatives with the brief of preserving it and passing it on if I could no longer keep it, I looked to give some stuff (including some 'Irvin' clothing) to museums, which I visited to 'check them out'. I was appalled at the lack of conservation care given to clothing in general and to sheepskin in particular by some of these establishments, compared to the attention lavished on 'hardware'. It seems I'm not alone. I found this quote on the website of Oldnautibits (Geoff, husband of Val, 'Pecard' importer to the UK).

'Similarly, when recently in a well known “Battle of Britain” museum, here in Southern England, we spotted an original World War II Irvin Flying Jacket which had belonged to an illustrious fighter pilot - one of the “Few”. We were shocked to see it mounted in an illuminated display cabinet where it was “cooking” under the lights and simply falling apart through lack of appropriate care'

oldnautibits.com​

Needless to say, my 'hand-ons' haven't gone to places like that!

Alan

 

[Micawber]

Good points Alan. Many of the smaller museums operate on a shoestring surviving on much volunteer effort, However as many area museum services provide good conservation advice, workshops and services it is painful to see exhibits in some places being not only poorly presented but also with little regard to a stable environment.

 

[aswatland]

Nice to see some familiar Irvins surfacing on the FL. My Irvin collection has evolved over the years and currently has the following jackets:

1933 by Irvin Air Chute

1938 in near mint by Irvin Air Chute

1941 by Wareing and Co of Northampton-mint condition

1944-5 multi-panelled

 

[Windsock]

You need to move up here to Scandinavia so you can get more wear out of them

Thanks, but already did that many years ago- lived and worked in Helsinki and only just escaped with my sanity- (crazy Finnish girlfriend). I loved Scandinavia but that was back when I thought there was somewhere better to live.

 

[Rufus]

Alan,

It's interesting what you said about the lack of care given to clothes in museums.

I took my son to the Imperial war museum, and was shocked to see clothes moths in their display cabinets (downstairs in the WW2 section, on the German field gear display).

I went and infomed a number of staff, none of whom looked terribly troubled by this...

In 2001 I made the mistake of lending artwork to the secretariat at the V&A for a display on Comic book art. the display was very successful, but on dismantling it, they left a number of pieces ina corridor, and these were stolen.

The secretariat staff warmly told me not to worry, as this was covered by insurance...

I was truly lost for words...

Be very careful where you donate or loan to... I always felt public collections were best... but really, if it weren't for private collectors very things of worth would survive..

My thanks to all of you who've posted your collections online. It's always a pleasure to see the colections you've amassed with such love and reverence, and a rare opportunity to see some lovely glimpses of our history.

Rufus

 

[KhalilSheikh]

Why buy repro?...when you can get an original for at least the same price, if not substantially cheaper, and that's even through a retailer, not Ebay.

For example, I came across this sweet little number in a size 44", all sound, for only ?Ǭ£350 (uk pounds), when a repro can set you back between ?Ǭ£400 and ?Ǭ£500 (uk pounds)...!!! You can wear a piece of history for less, so root around (this one is on the AeroLeather website), and look at what they might have on Ebay too (although you take your chances with what you get coming through your post on Ebay).

But as a jacket, for me it is the quinessential RAF flight jacket with bags of vintage character that guarantees a 'head turn' from onlookers wherever you may land!

I've always preferred the Irvin over the B3. A shame it doesn't get cold enough where I live...

 

[PADDY]

Irvin season open!! (Northern Hemisphere - UK)

As some already know, I'm currently limited to accessing a computer terminal due to family commitments across the pond.

But just wanted to declare my own little corner of the northern hemisphere as officially open for Irvin wearing!! First early morning 6am frost a few days ago, so the Irvin Suit jacket is out for the season!!:eusa_clap

NOT BAD FOR A 70-YEAR-OLD EH!!!

 

[Spitfire]

70!!!!!! Paddy I would never have guessed.
(Great jacket by the way)

 

[Smithy]

Absolutely superb Paddy, you look a million bucks :eusa_clap

You're all sorted for winter my friend!

 

[blacklagoon]

excellent

those close up pictures are an excellent view of the sheer excellent craftmanship your irvin has smithy.thank you for posting the pictures. Now i really want to buy one.

 

[blacklagoon]

beautiful

that irvin is in incredible condition for it's age paddy.i really wish i was the owner.it fits you perfectly.I,myself,have just won a pair of original irvin trousers on ebay,on saturday.they arrived this afternoon.they took two days to arrive.the trousers are in a similar condition as your jacket paddy,absolutely incredible.the leather and sheepskin is in wonderful plush condition.the only problem,is the two front pockets are missing.they have the original size label.they are:
Size 4
Waist: 32'' - 34''
Seat: 35'' - 40''
Leg Inside: 31 1/2''
Leg Outisde: 46''

Everything is there,except one zip pull,which is a small makeshift piece of copper wire.the other zip,is the original AM dot made in england.both legs zip from the bottom of the trouser legs,all the way to the very top,where they can be disconnected from the main zipper,and seperated.basically,both legs unzip and open out,exactly like the irvin flying jackets.
These specific trousers,are too long for me,as i am only 5 foot 2 tall,but they stay up when i wear them,around the waist.they are very tight fitting at the bottom.the sheepskin is shortpile.it also has two pockets at the waist/hips,that just lead into the inside sheepskin filled legs,which,like the toilet section at the front,are open and closed by a popper button.the sheepskin inside,seems to get,or look,longer,as it moves upwards towards the waist.the sheepskin,inside and outside,around the waist and crotch area/seat area,is the same length as our irvin jacket sheepskin length.
I will post some pictures of the trousers sometime soon.
I have heard,that Aero buy these old irvin trousers,and chop them up,to repair irvin flying jackets.I think i read it on their website somewhere.Now that i have a pair,i feel really sick they do that to them.they are just as good and magnificent to hold and wear,as the irvin flying jackets themselves.I seriously recommend people consider buying a pair if they see them selling anywhere.Not only will they be protected from being chopped up,but the person will be in possession of a unique item and a magnificent pair of irvin leather/sheepskin trousers.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Spare NOS trouser zips are actually more common than NOS jacket zips, as the same design (without the AM marking) was used on tank suits and sleeping bags. Some people (no names, no pack drill) shorten these to make jacket zips and have the pullers suitably engraved. What is your missing puller like? Two trunnions on the slider or one?

The practice (which as an Irvin suit wearer I, too, abhor) of 'reclaiming' trouser material to make jackets has a long history - it was being done in late WW2. As you say, it still goes on...

Alan

that irvin is in incredible condition for it's age paddy.i really wish i was the owner.it fits you perfectly.I,myself,have just won a pair of original irvin trousers on ebay,on saturday.they arrived this afternoon.they took two days to arrive.the trousers are in a similar condition as your jacket paddy,absolutely incredible.the leather and sheepskin is in wonderful plush condition.the only problem,is the two front pockets are missing.they have the original size label.they are:
Size 4
Waist: 32'' - 34''
Seat: 35'' - 40''
Leg Inside: 31 1/2''
Leg Outisde: 46''

Everything is there,except one zip pull,which is a small makeshift piece of copper wire.the other zip,is the original AM dot made in england.both legs zip from the bottom of the trouser legs,all the way to the very top,where they can be disconnected from the main zipper,and seperated.basically,both legs unzip and open out,exactly like the irvin flying jackets.
These specific trousers,are too long for me,as i am only 5 foot 2 tall,but they stay up when i wear them,around the waist.they are very tight fitting at the bottom.the sheepskin is shortpile.it also has two pockets at the waist/hips,that just lead into the inside sheepskin filled legs,which,like the toilet section at the front,are open and closed by a popper button.the sheepskin inside,seems to get,or look,longer,as it moves upwards towards the waist.the sheepskin,inside and outside,around the waist and crotch area/seat area,is the same length as our irvin jacket sheepskin length.
I will post some pictures of the trousers sometime soon.
I have heard,that Aero buy these old irvin trousers,and chop them up,to repair irvin flying jackets.I think i read it on their website somewhere.Now that i have a pair,i feel really sick they do that to them.they are just as good and magnificent to hold and wear,as the irvin flying jackets themselves.I seriously recommend people consider buying a pair if they see them selling anywhere.Not only will they be protected from being chopped up,but the person will be in possession of a unique item and a magnificent pair of irvin leather/sheepskin trousers.

 

[blacklagoon]

nice info

thank you for the info alan.to help us,and other members along ( me mainly:eusa_doh: ),here is a link to a diagram of zip componants.

http://www.industrie.coats.de/zip/zipabc/components/?_lng=

The puller ( 4 ), is attatched to the slider (3), by two trunnions.the two trunnions are on top of the slider.in the link diagram,there is a cap (14), covering the two trunnions.the zips on my trousers do not have the caps.the actual zip puller itself,when connected to,and inside the trunnions,are split,so there is a gap between them.the puller tips do not connect when fitted into the trunnions.
I hope this helps you.

 

[PADDY]

Dog has chewed the original puller.

Dog has chewed the original leather puller on the main zip!! [huh] He wasn't to know, just doing the things that doggies do!! But he's just swallowed a piece of history of sorts (probably thought it was just a hide bone!! ).

Oh well....deep breaths [huh]

 

[Edward]

Dog has chewed the original leather puller on the main zip!! [huh] He wasn't to know, just doing the things that doggies do!! But he's just swallowed a piece of history of sorts (probably thought it was just a hide bone!! ).

Oh well....deep breaths [huh]

See, there's the difference between a cat and a dog. The cat wouldn't have done that without knowing exactly what was going on... lol .

 

[Alan Eardley]

thank you for the info alan.to help us,and other members along ( me mainly:eusa_doh: ),here is a link to a diagram of zip componants.

http://www.industrie.coats.de/zip/zipabc/components/?_lng=

The puller ( 4 ), is attatched to the slider (3), by two trunnions.the two trunnions are on top of the slider.in the link diagram,there is a cap (14), covering the two trunnions.the zips on my trousers do not have the caps.the actual zip puller itself,when connected to,and inside the trunnions,are split,so there is a gap between them.the puller tips do not connect when fitted into the trunnions.
I hope this helps you.

It does! That is an apt description of a Dot cast alloy double trunnion zip - the weakest and rarest type, I'm afraid. The trunnion lugs break off very easily - I have a small collection of broken ones. I am working on a repacement using the lost wax casting process, but I haven't got it right yet. Trouser zips are aspecially vulnerable as they have to tuck into flying boots, although I suppose that means it is less important that they are complete, as they aren't seen.

Alan

 

[irvinsuit]

Irvin Trousers

Hi Alan,

I understand that the correct way to dress was Irvin Trousers on first, then tucked into unzipped flying boots therefore reducing the danger to the trousers zips. I have a pair of 1941 trousers and 1940 trousers and I'm careful to protect the zips against any damage. I agree with the previous comments about collecting and preserving these items as they are great historic pieces and more comfortable to wear than people would first think.

Thanks.

 

[Alan Eardley]

All true! And they have the pockets!

Alan

Hi Alan,

I understand that the correct way to dress was Irvin Trousers on first, then tucked into unzipped flying boots therefore reducing the danger to the trousers zips. I have a pair of 1941 trousers and 1940 trousers and I'm careful to protect the zips against any damage. I agree with the previous comments about collecting and preserving these items as they are great historic pieces and more comfortable to wear than people would first think.

Thanks.