Ireland during the war

[Mr. 'H']

I just read this very interesting review of a book about Ireland during the war. This country was neutral then and still is now, more for strategic rather than idealogical reasons.

It seems that compared to the blackouts all over Engalnd, Ireland (Dublin) was a den of iniquity well lit up and ready for business.

Ireland had a troubled relationship with Britain and this seemed to color the way officialdom approached the Allies. There was a really good documentary on recently about how Ireland sheilded many ex-Nazis in the country and how this was kept very hush hush. All very interesting how this stuff is only now coming out, due to official paers from the time being released to the public now....

 

[Shearer]

Could I ask you the name of the book and documentary you mentioned? I wonder if I could get them over here in the states, as I'm very interested in Irish history.

I wonder if their position had anything to do with what went on during WWI?

Didn't Ireland (or rather Casement) get into a little bit of trouble in 1916 during the first world war by buying guns from the Germans for use in the Easter Uprising? I don't think those guns ever got to Dublin for the Uprising, but didn't the English use a charge of treason to try and execute Pearse, Connolly, et al? Please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been awhile since I studied the Uprising...

 

[Dixon Cannon]

There is a pretty good movie about this period called 'Brylcreem Boys'. RAF and Luftwaffe prisoners together in an Irish internment camp. Actually quite a good flick and the uniforms look great too! Count von Stegenbeck wears his flieger jacke with a white turtleneck. Wunderbar!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brylcreem_Boys

-dixon cannon

 

[Mr. 'H']

"That Neutral Island" by Clair Wilson.

She gave a radio interview today in rte radio.

 

[Feraud]

It looks like an interesting read.
I added this to my Amazon wish list.
Thanks!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I thought the Irish "position" during WWII was well known. Neutrality of the Swiss type . . . Maybe not [huh]

bk

 

[cookie]

Irish IN WW2

Don't forget that lotsa Irish guys fought in the British forces though - my local doctor years ago Maca A Hobson was one... he decided there was no choice at all....

 

[Teekay44]

Time/Life WWII series

A book in the series "The Neutrals" gives a very nice overview.

 

[TailendCharlie]

I thought the Irish "position" during WWII was well known. Neutrality of the Swiss type . . . Maybe not [huh]

bk

Don't forget the Swedes

 

[Baron Kurtz]

i didn't think the swedes had been accused of active collaboration.

bk

 

[Fletch]

There were, perhaps unsurprisingly, prominent Irish Nazi sympathizers. Joseph Hepburn-Ruston (Audrey's father) was one.

 

[Spitfire]

i didn't think the swedes had been accused of active collaboration.

bk

Oh - but they were.
There were many cases of trooptrains/supplies/guns/tanks crossing Sweden from Norway to Finland - and the eastfront.
Also deals made on iron ore - and the transportation of this important material.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

huh, they were on the Swiss model too, then.

bk

 

[dr greg]

History repeats

Having just finally got to see 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley" a long over due look at the subject, it's not surprising the Irish stayed out of WW2. I grew up on tales of the Black and Tans, so there wasn't much sympathy for England's problems from some of my relatives. How much better off your average bog farmer would have been under a Nazified europe is debatable of course, but 700 years of domination doesn't tend to breed good will in those under subjection, as recent events in Yugoslavia showed us.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Hmmm.... Good points....

 

[cookie]

Black and Tans

That scene in the film 'Michael Collins' when the B&Ts arrive and start shooting up the place gives a small taste of what they did. The incident when they shot up the innocent people at Croke Park was another.

To think that Britain released its criminal scum into a regiment and then sent them to a part of (democratic) Britain with a generous writ to subdue the inhabitants of an occupied land (aka part of Britain) by any cruel means will always live in infamy.

This was one of many reasons for the non-involvement in WWII.

That said...a lot of the Irish continued to be pro-British and volunteered to save Western Civilisation from the Nazi hordes.

 

[feltfan]

It was my understanding that a not insignificant number of Irish men
took the view that, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
and volunteered for the Axis side?

Of course there were British citizens, even beyond
Unity and Diana Mitford, who were sympathizers, too.
And let's not get me started on the USA's homegrown
sympathizers and collaborators.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

"yonder comes father Coughlin,
swinging his iron chain.
Gas on his stomach,
and Hitler on the brain.
In Washington . . . Washington"

Woody Guthrie Lindbergh (mid-30s)

Having researched a little since this thread started, it would seem that the official Eire government position was one of ally-biased neurtality (brit/american/canadian pilots repatriated to the North, German pilots interred until the end of the war). I was under the impression before that German submarines had refuelled in Irish bases, but this seems to be false. So, my suggestion that Eire wasneutral on the Swiss model is wrong, they were on a model opposite the Swiss/Swede.

bk

 

[TailendCharlie]

Having just finally got to see 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley" a long over due look at the subject, it's not surprising the Irish stayed out of WW2. I grew up on tales of the Black and Tans, so there wasn't much sympathy for England's problems from some of my relatives. How much better off your average bog farmer would have been under a Nazified europe is debatable of course, but 700 years of domination doesn't tend to breed good will in those under subjection, as recent events in Yugoslavia showed us.

Just ask the good people of the Ukraine.
cheers!
Tailend

 

[mikepara]

Wrong!

That scene in the film 'Michael Collins' when the B&Ts arrive and start shooting up the place gives a small taste of what they did. The incident when they shot up the innocent people at Croke Park was another.

To think that Britain released its criminal scum into a regiment and then sent them to a part of (democratic) Britain with a generous writ to subdue the inhabitants of an occupied land (aka part of Britain) by any cruel means will always live in infamy.

Before anyone starts, I'll make it clear I am Irish. I was brought up on RA stories and rebel Songs. However I am also a keen student of Irish History. Rebel songs by there very nature are one sided.

Britain didn't recruit any criminal scum into the RIC Police Auxiliary [Black and Tans] They did recruit policemen and demobbed Army / Navy officers.

They where not a Regiment but Police and they where there on the direct wish of the Chief Constable, because the IRA where hindering recruitment by killing or intimidating the majority Catholic peelers. Remember the Protestants only had ascendency in the North and that included the police.

Yes the Auxies where hated, yes in some cases they beat and killed people who could have been arrested. The fast majority did a good martial policing job and did arrest and decently treat many more IRA members and sympathizers out of the 1000's of incidents in the 'tan wars' there where a handful of tit for tat atrocities.

Michael Collins made quite a name for himself by killing informers and peelers. Cookie is wrong to suggest, by implication that it is only a crime to kill someone in pre 1922 British ruled Ireland if that person wasn't a member of the Crown Forces.

You just have to see what the new Irish Free State did to the anti treaty IRA rebels. They shot and hung and massacred many more IRA men than Britain did and the Treaty war was much worse casualty wise than the war for independence.