I'm a teeny bit miffed....

[mysterygal]

I'm not just saying this against women, and I agree, men are handsome in their own right, but, as far as nakedness goes, well, we do outrank them. It probably does boil down to culture, but, I've always thought the female body looks even more beautiful when there's a mystique about it....and I've found the same goes for men's point of view....I've talked to many men who have been more intriqued with a women who they had to use their imagination a bit instead of the whole caboodle right there before their eyes.

 

[mysterygal]

I'm probably starting a whole different topic entirely, aren't I?! :eusa_doh:

 

[Paisley]

I have no idea what an old-guard family is but are you saying that should a person marry someone that is not approved of by their employer or is involved with certain charities, then they can be fired? I'm trying really hard not to cause any offence here but how Big Brother is that?

old guard 1: the conservative and especially older members of an organization (as a political party)
2 : a group of established prestige and influence

No, we don't seek an employer's approval of spouses, unless perhaps you work for your family. (However, a poor choice of spouse can hurt your career; I've seen it happen.) What I'm saying is that an old guard family probably won't be very tolerant of a Bohemian in-law. I don't think Americans are unique in this respect.

In the case of rising to a high rank in a company or getting on a charity board, someone who didn't fit into the corporate culture probably woudn't even attain that position. Some people have successfully fought being fired over, well, immodest after-hours behavior. For reasons beyond the scope of this forum, I think it's probably better, in many cases, to move on and get a job where you fit in.

As for the woman in the military who was broke back...I've been in the military, too. What was she thinking? :eusa_doh:

 

[GOK]

I'm not just saying this against women, and I agree, men are handsome in their own right, but, as far as nakedness goes, well, we do outrank them. It probably does boil down to culture, but, I've always thought the female body looks even more beautiful when there's a mystique about it....and I've found the same goes for men's point of view....I've talked to many men who have been more intriqued with a women who they had to use their imagination a bit instead of the whole caboodle right there before their eyes.

Oh, I absolutely agree with the whole allure and mystique thing, MG and I wasn't implying that you personally were referring just to women - more a case of the thread seeming that way. Does that make sense?

I also concur with what you say about men's POV vis a vis clothing. You only have to look at pinups for the proof! A little goes a long way and less is often most definitely not more! lol

When I'm modelling, I rarely do completely nude shots (although I have done them) and the reason is exactly what we're talking about - provocation. Being completely naked rarely leaves anything to the imagination, so not much fun to be had there!

The calendar however, was a whole different ball game, and one of the best things that came out of it was how much of a confidence boost it gave some of the people involved. If only for that reason, it was a lovely thing to do.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

well the thread is in the Powder Room...and now being treated like a lingerie thread....so not really going to gain any male opinions etc...and I would suspect the assumption was that it was an all female calendar...some of us can't go see links from work......

 

[mysterygal]

. Does that make sense?
Absolutely....Even in these modern times, it is still a man's world, so I think women will more naturally be 'picked' on than a man....I get the feel that society looks at a man posing nude and says, 'bravo' and big slap on the back while women get looked at as being easy/whore.....Not at all saying this is right, but, sadly I think this is the way it goes.
I also concur with what you say about men's POV vis a vis clothing. You only have to look at pinups for the proof! A little goes a long way and less is often most definitely not more! lol
lol lol And usually the normal man is lacking!.....seriously, as far as men go, I'd much rather see them in a super suit.

 

[GOK]

old guard 1: the conservative and especially older members of an organization (as a political party)
2 : a group of established prestige and influence

No, we don't seek an employer's approval of spouses, unless perhaps you work for your family. (However, a poor choice of spouse can hurt your career; I've seen it happen.) What I'm saying is that an old guard family probably won't be very tolerant of a Bohemian in-law. I don't think Americans are unique in this respect.

Oh right, with you now. I thought you meant it the other way around. And no, you're certainly not unique. Although it was nothing to do with my career, when I got married, my family had a fit because the way they saw it, I was marrying beneath me. As it turned out, they were right but not for the class issues they stated!

In the case of rising to a high rank in a company or getting on a charity board, someone who didn't fit into the corporate culture probably woudn't even attain that position. Some people have successfully fought being fired over, well, immodest after-hours behavior.

Immodest after hours behaviour could be so many things but what first springs to my mind involves inordinate amounts of drink and drugs. I suppose lewdness and nudity can often go hand in hand with those and yes, if it brings the company into disrepute, even by association, then I agree that the person in question ought to at least be reprimanded. However, if an employee's private life causes absolutely no conflict with their professional one and there is no corporate harm done, then I don't see what business it might be of the employer to lay down the law in that respect.

I think I might have misunderstood your previous post, Paisley because I thought that what you were saying was that if a person was involved in certain charities, they could be fired. :eusa_doh:

 

[GOK]

well the thread is in the Powder Room...and now being treated like a lingerie thread....so not really going to gain any male opinions etc...and I would suspect the assumption was that it was an all female calendar...some of us can't go see links from work......

Even if you could, you'd only see one photo from the calendar anyway, Denise!

Absolutely....Even in these modern times, it is still a man's world, so I think women will more naturally be 'picked' on than a man

Much as I don't like it, I have to agree with you there. And it sucks (as you lot would say!!). But then, the alternative is often loud, brash, man-bashing females and men accusing them of being lesbians....as if to use that term were some kind of insult.

....I get the feel that society looks at a man posing nude and says, 'bravo' and big slap on the back while women get looked at as being easy/whore.....Not at all saying this is right, but, sadly I think this is the way it goes.

It's the same with sleeping around though, or getting drunk, driving fast etc. We live in a world of double standards. Oh, and I'm not saying that I personally approve of any of my cited examples! I don't. At all. Ummm, not that it's really for me to approve or disapprove of what others do!

And usually the normal man is lacking!.....seriously, as far as men go, I'd much rather see them in a super suit.

Here here! Give me a well suited man any day! Better still, a man in a beautifully tailored dinner suit with manners to match! And let him hold doors open for me, push my chair in as I sit down and ask me to dance. Why, he can even kiss my hand if he's particularly charming! lol

 

[Foofoogal]

This is an interesting thread. It seems things may be a bit different across the pond.
There was an article awhile back about the MySpace and how potential employers were actually going to the site and checking out after hours postings by potential employees such as college students and such.
Can you imagine working like crazy to get a degree and then finding out you lost the job because of risque photos or tidbits about how you went wild on Friday night. I did find a MySpace about a local teacher and truthfully if I was a parent with a child in her class it would make me uncomfortable big time.
Then you can find the lovely photos of people at places like craigslist that leaves no mystery at all. I personally find the most beautiful place on any woman is her collar bone. My point is many people have no clue of the difference between beautiful art and smut and throw it all in one basket. [huh]
sorry if this is out of line.

 

[GOK]

I don't think it's out of line at all FFG and I thank you for your contribution.

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that potential employers over here do similar and if I am honest, I'd have to admit that if I saw that a teacher was behaving completely unethically out of hours, I might have some qualms. But I'd speak to her before coming to any real conclusion.

Having said that, one of my (ex) colleagues used to behave quite appallingly when she was out but was one of the most professional people I have ever worked with. She was a completely lovely person who just happened to exercise bad judgement sometimes. But she was a brilliant teacher.

I think that if people are posting about their exploits on MySpace, LJ or some other blogger, they have to expect that at some point, someone they might not want is going to read about them. I do feel that for an employer to 'check up' on someone like this, is in some ways an abuse (although I'm not clear why I feel like this, since these things are out there and public. [huh] ) but I can also understand why they might do it, especially if they feel they have cause.

I once heard about one employer using astrology to discover things about prospective employees - I thought that was a tad odd! I can just see it now;

"Sorry Ms le Strange, we can't employ you because Mercury was in the ascendant when you were born and I think we all know what that means"

lol

 

[Kim_B]

I once heard about one employer using astrology to discover things about prospective employees - I thought that was a tad odd! I can just see it now;

"Sorry Ms le Strange, we can't employ you because Mercury was in the ascendant when you were born and I think we all know what that means"

lol

lol lol lol lol lol lol !!!!!

 

[Paisley]

There seems to be less privacy in a person's private life now. I don't have a MySpace account because I want to reveal my interests, hangouts, feelings, etc. only after I get to know someone. (This "Paisley" person is the sanitized version of me I've never visited MySpace because there's probably a lot more there about my neighbors and coworkers than I want to know. Maybe that's why I'm not very fond of nudes in art: I find a little mystery more enticing than seeing all.

 

[GOK]

Some of my friends keep telling me I should get a Myspace account to support my work. I see this as possibly a good thing but as for baring one's soul to a faceless public....not my thing. If want people to know things about me, I'll tell them when I'm ready. In the olden days this was called friendship! lol

I really do agree with you Paisley about mystery, despite the calendar. I also have to point out that there were no bottoms, bits or nips on show; one of my pics showed me with my back to the camera, sitting in front of a lake, and the other had a huge great sword and shield protecting my modesty!

I can do mystery...honest! lol

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Calendar Girls

The reporter's comments were juvenile and insulting, trying to be funny or something. Toward the end (no pun intended) of the article it seems like the editor took over. The movie Calendar Girls is a big hit at my branch library, wherein some older ladies do a nude calendar for charity. Epidemic? Hardly. Sounds like fun. It is for charity, not Playboy.

 

[GOK]

The reporter's comments were juvenile and insulting, trying to be funny or something. Toward the end (no pun intended) of the article it seems like the editor took over. The movie Calendar Girls is a big hit at my branch library, wherein some older ladies do a nude calendar for charity. Epidemic? Hardly. Sounds like fun. It is for charity, not Playboy.

Exactly, it's for charity. Gosh Heff would laugh at us if we said we wanted to do Playboy! We'll leave that to the lithsome chicks!

I've not actually seen Calendar Girls, although I almost have on several occasions. I think I ought to!

 

[melankomas]

As for the woman in the military who was broke back...I've been in the military, too. What was she thinking? :eusa_doh:

i expect she was thinking her son might need a few things she couldn't provide on E3 pay. this was actually a large part of my argument. if the woman was in such dire straits that she needed outside employment to support her son, reducing her rank and withholding pay would certainly not solve the problem. she had asked my approval for outside employment, and i had given it. i had quite a time backing up my approval, but i was successful in the end. she claimed, stated, and implied no affiliation with the military during her exhibition, and therefore i would not allow her to be punished for projecting a less than professional military image.

 

[GOK]

i expect she was thinking her son might need a few things she couldn't provide on E3 pay. this was actually a large part of my argument. if the woman was in such dire straits that she needed outside employment to support her son, reducing her rank and withholding pay would certainly not solve the problem. she had asked my approval for outside employment, and i had given it. i had quite a time backing up my approval, but i was successful in the end. she claimed, stated, and implied no affiliation with the military during her exhibition, and therefore i would not allow her to be punished for projecting a less than professional military image.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[melankomas]

Interesting to note that the gender referred to is female. Is this because we are all women here, or is there some subconscious notion that it is somehow more damaging/wrong/shocking/whatever, for a woman to pose nude (for whatever reason)? Personally speaking, I'd rather see a naked woman than a naked man. Don't get me wrong, men are adorable creatures (usually) but generally, they do look better with their clothes on!

There are, incidentally, two males in our calendar.

MG - of course there are many ways of supporting causes but we did this because it was much more fun than a sponsored race, raffle, or something. And people that buy the calendars (we've sold a few thousand so far) are getting something for their money - something they obviously like, judging by the amount of positive feedback we've received. Granted it may not be to everyone's taste but then you know what they say about not being able to please all of the people all of the time!

it's very possible that the subconcious notion is not that women are more greatly harmed by nude exhibition, but that their place at the outset is more precarious. i'm certain i've not chosen the right words, but i hope this makes sense.

 

[mysterygal]

it's very possible that the subconcious notion is not that women are more greatly harmed by nude exhibition, but that their place at the outset is more precarious. i'm certain i've not chosen the right words, but i hope this makes sense.

What it sounds like you're saying is that women who pose nude end up being seen as more of a 'play thing' than a real human being?
Even though it is not of my personal taste, what GOK is doing at least is for a cause, most of what I see is purely for the sensationalism of it...a 'look at me!' (and I'm still talking of those who do it just for the publicity)...though from what I've read, the media somewhat forces women into having to keep taking that 'next step'.
An example that most people know in here is Ditta Von Teese...she's absolutely beautiful...now, not too long ago, I knew NOTHING of her, and at first was very impressed....she looked to have impeccable taste and highly intelligent...then reading of the fettish books and someone mentioned films, which I can only assume are of the pornagraphic nature, there's something about that, that takes away some respect from how I saw her [huh] But the same would also go for a guy as well....you just don't see many guys baring all because the demand for it is just not there.

 

[Paisley]

i expect she was thinking her son might need a few things she couldn't provide on E3 pay. this was actually a large part of my argument. if the woman was in such dire straits that she needed outside employment to support her son, reducing her rank and withholding pay would certainly not solve the problem. she had asked my approval for outside employment, and i had given it. i had quite a time backing up my approval, but i was successful in the end. she claimed, stated, and implied no affiliation with the military during her exhibition, and therefore i would not allow her to be punished for projecting a less than professional military image.

She was very lucky. Let us hope that her experiences have been sobering enough to make her think several steps ahead in life.