Hurricane Katrina

[Biltmore Bob]

Shamus...It wasn't Bush's fault...

Go lay your blame on someone else, like the Mayor of New Orleans or the Gov.
of LA for starters. I think Bush deserves alot of praise and credit, quite frankly. How many millions is he sending to the area in relief. Oh that's right, Congress had to aprove that...what the hell, he wants all the black people to die, right...I'm sorry, no I'm not sorry. People don't really think Bush is to blame, cause he's not. Neither is Clinton or Reagan or Carter or Ford or Nixon, C'mon now, for crying out loud. The President is just the President. He ain't responsible for everything that goes on in this country. You think the Pres. knows everything about the New Orleans Levy system? No!

 

[shamus]

I'm not laying blame on anyone yet. I'm just saying what if?

But I do think that the Administration should know everything about the Levy system of New Orleans. As they should know everything about the Golden Gate Bridge. That's their JOB. Running and protecting their country. I believe he even took an oath to that. It's not like it's his first year in office.

You think he should be praised for waiting 5 days? It's a bit longer than 7 minutes, but 5 days?

But you say..

The Congressional Ways and Means Committie are the one that aprove money for special projects like levy reinforcement etc...not the President.

ie: its Congress and not the president.

But then you say...

How many millions is he sending to the area in relief. Oh that's right, Congress had to aprove that...what the hell,

It's not congress, it's the president.

So the president only gets credit when it's a good thing? And he has nothing to do with it when it's a bad thing? Wish I could live like that.

 

[jake_fink]

I've been riveted to the news - print, net and television - as this story has been unfolding, and I, like so many others, feel sadness and anger at the devestating spectacle that it has become. Far beyond the damage of the natural disaster itself there is an element of human tragedy, of outright misery, the scale of which, in our times, is unprecedented and absolutely unacceptable in a wealthy, Western nation, nevermind the wealthiest nation in the world.

Play ideological ping pong with this all you like, but accept the fact, since it's terribly clear to everyone, that behind this travesty is an egregious failure to protect, to aid, to provide security for thousands of Americans on their own soil, and this failure has roots that are beyond doubt political and that stretch through the current administration into the whole rotten, corrupt political culture of the US.

If a culture seeks to propogate itself through war and propoganda then fine and well, but if the curtain is pulled away from the propoganda, if it becomes clear that freedom and democracy are nice words and little else, if they provide neither support nor succor to the most vulnerable members of society, then maybe it's time to pause and reflect. Maybe there's some work to be done on freedom and democracy at home.

I'll close, since I know there are differences of political opinion on these boards, by saying that I mean no disrespect to members of this forum, and that my heart and my thoughts are with the displaced, the homeless, the injured and the destitute who survived this tragedy, and with those who did not, as I know yours are.



*Here are two brief pieces on the political mess that is FEMA:

The Globe and Mail
Times Picayune Editorial

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Samus you misunderstood...

What I was trying to say was, where was all the money from Congress to fix the levys? It's not the job of the Pres to know about the Golden Gate Bridge, it's the Senators and Congressmen from that State and District, Mayors and Governor. They then go to the Congress and plea for money to fix the problem. Not the President. I would be very surprised to find out that Bush vetoed a bill that appropriated money to fix the levys, unless it was buried in a bunch of liberal crap.

 

[shamus]

Well, lets agree to disagree as you consider anything liberial as crap.

I've learned one thing in life that you can not discuss politics or religion with anyone who shares a different view than your own.

 

[android]

He's the one that told the Democrat Gov. of LA to get off her butt and order the evac and ask for Federal assistance.

Press Release
Date: 8/26/2005


Contact: Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


GOVERNOR BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY

BATON ROUGE, LA--Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.

The full text of Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005 is as follows:

WHEREAS, the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act, R.S. 29:721, et seq., confers upon the governor of the state of Louisiana emergency powers to deal with emergencies and disasters, including those caused by fire, flood, earthquake or other natural or man-made causes, in order to ensure that preparations of this state will be adequate to deal with such emergencies or disasters and to preserve the lives and property of the citizens of the state of Louisiana;

WHEREAS, when the governor finds a disaster or emergency has occurred, or the threat thereof is imminent, R.S. 29:724(B)(1) empowers her to declare the state of disaster or emergency by executive order or proclamation, or both; and

WHEREAS, On August 26, 2005, Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat to the state of Louisiana, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of Louisiana;

NOW THEREFORE I, KATHLEEN BABINEAUX BLANCO,
Governor of the state of Louisiana, by virtue of the authority vested by the Constitution and laws of the state of Louisiana, do hereby order and direct as follows:

SECTION 1: Pursuant to the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act, R.S. 29:721, et seq., a state of emergency is declared to exist in the state of Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana;

SECTION 2: The state of Louisiana's emergency response and recovery program is activated under the command of the director of the state office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness to prepare for and provide emergency support services and/or to minimize the effects of the storm's damage.

SECTION 3: The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.

###

 

[android]

this failure has roots that are beyond doubt political and that stretch through the current administration into the whole rotten, corrupt political culture of the US.

Exactly!

If you can't see that both Bush and the liberals are full of crap and corrupt to the core, I'm going to worry about you.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

What are you saying, Andy, Shamus... I don't get it.

Do you actually think it's the current administrations fault that the people did not evacuate New Orleans? Hell there are people that still won't leave. Do you think it's Bush's fault that the Governor didn't mobilize the Nat'l Guard sooner? I guess it's Bush's fault that the mayor did not use his resources and evacuate the city before it was too late.

For the sake of argument, let's say FEMA was late to the party, I still can't see why anybody can blame it on the President. The President does not work for FEMA. Does anyone think for a minute that the President knows or needs to know everything about every agency in the Federal Government? Evidently Shamus thinks so, and he also thinks that the President should know everything about every State, County and Municipality. And how come you don't here anyone blaming Bush for what happened to the rest of the Gulf Coast? Or for that matter, how come he's not blamed for the devistation caused by Hurricane Charlie last year? I'll tell you why...'cause those people got out while they had a chance. Ok, some will say that the poorest of the poor in New Orleans had no way to get out. The city should have had a plan. Right? I'm sure they did. Houston does. What happened there? Oh, that's right, the President should have reviewed the dissaster plan for New Orleans and made sure it was OK, and then flew down and held the Mayor's hand during the whole evacuation process. What was I thinking?

I don't like everything about Bush, and Lord knows I despised Clinton when he was Pres., but I wouldn't have blamed him for what happened on the Gulf Coast.

Let's talk about the current war against terrorism being conducted in Iraq, since Shamus brought it up. Do you really think that we can't provide for the victims of Katrina properly because we have some of our troops and resources committed to Iraq? People from LA are getting a $2,000 debit card for crying out loud. Do the math yourself, I think Texas alone has gotten more than 300,000 refugees from LA. That's alot of debit cards. People are getting immediate welfare assistance in the form of $500 in food stamps and they don't even have to show ID. Folks that were on Gov. assisted housing are already finding homes all over Houston. The Astro Dome has already lost two thirds of it's population. There is no lack of Federal resources, my friends. Federal, State and Local Government is working their asses off. I've seen it in person. Were some mistakes made? I'm sure they were. But you can't blame Bush.

 

[shamus]

I said I was done discussing it, but I'll add one point of your sake of argument that you seem to lack knowledge of.

For the sake of argument, let's say FEMA was late to the party, I still can't see why anybody can blame it on the President. The President does not work for FEMA.

President Bush appointed his good buddy to head FEMA. His experience in running FEMA was none. His last job was judging show horses. He got fired from that job. He's now in charge of FEMA. President Bush hired him. It's his friend. This is how I can blame the President. Do you understand the timeline? I'll go over it again.. President Bush hires his good drinking buddy who has no knowledge of FEMA. Sure he knows what to look for in an Arabian, but not natural disasters. President Bush's buddy screws up... big time. I then blame the president.

 

[swinggal]

I was horrified by the devastion I have seen on the news. I can't imagine what it would be like to be suffereing in such a disaster zone. I just hope that the US government puts as much effort into helping people and starting a cleanup as they did for 9/11. This distaster to me seems 1000 times worse and yet, from an outsiders view, all we see here is bickering about what is or isn't being done and that Bush want to start and 'investigation' into why the relief efforts were so slow. The government should just get on with it.

My condolences to anyone has family and friends in disaster zone. I know how you feel as I lost a co-worker to the Asian Tsunami last year.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Swingal

Everything in the world is being done for these people.

Shamus, everything in the world is being done for these people, and FEMA is doing a really good job. C'mon down and check it out, Brother.

 

[android]

What are you saying, Andy, Shamus... I don't get it.

For the sake of argument, let's say FEMA was late to the party, I still can't see why anybody can blame it on the President. The President does not work for FEMA. Does anyone think for a minute that the President knows or needs to know everything about every agency in the Federal Government?

You're right. Bush doesn't work for FEMA. He's the boss of FEMA. You see, there's the executive branch of the government. Executive coming from the word execute where one of the definitions is basically to "get things done."

Departments such as Department of Defense and Department of Homeland Security work directly for the President. If they screw up, he's responsible. Period. That's what it means to be the guy in charge. Even if you didn't personally do it, you're responsible for it. Bush has got it pretty easy. He not only is accountable, he has broad authority over all the federal agencies in his branch of government.

And as the boss, yes, it is his responsibility to know about and provide executive leadership for every agency under his control. Previous Presidents accepted this responsibility and accepted the blame when things went wrong.

Look at Harry Truman, well known for his saying, "The buck stops here."

That's what I expect from the President regardless of party.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Ok, so what you are saying is that Local and State Goverment hold no responibility. That because it happened on Bush's watch, it's his fault. That's baloney, I can't even believe an intelligent person can believe that. Where are all the initiatives that were started by LA State Government? Surely they new of the problems they may face from flooding. Your darn right they new it, they new it for years, and guess what??? They wasted the money that Bush appropriated for them on pet projects besides levy restoration and reinforcement. I'm all for a comission on the disaster, let's put the cards on the table. It's going to come out that LA local and state goverment was corrupt and incompetent for years, making them not the Federal government liable for the break in the levys and flood.

And furthermore, what screw up ar you refering to?

 

[shamus]

I know I said I was done, but since you keep bringing it up again and again..

Yesterday you said:

The Congressional Ways and Means Committie are the one that aprove money for special projects like levy reinforcement etc...not the President.

now today you say...

They wasted the money that Bush appropriated for them on pet projects besides levy restoration and reinforcement.

Who gave them the money?

Also what pet projects are you talking about?

 

[android]

Ok, so what you are saying is that Local and State Goverment hold no responibility.

I never said that. They're certainly responsible for this:

and this:

Junkyard blog

and a variety of other things they didn't do.

It's a giant screw up at the local, state and federal levels.

 

[airfrogusmc]

This settles it.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

OK, so Ways and Means got Presidential approval, or his blessing, or however it works, to get money for their venue, so what? Where did they spend it? Certainly not on the levys, that's for sure. Don't reply, Shamus, if you are out of the discussion. I kinda like everyone here including you and Android, so I don't really want to make enemies. But it seems that everyone that just hates Bush, because (name the reason), is blaming him for everything from the Lindburgh baby kidnapping to the price of tea in China.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

That's great Froggy,

Where's Rummy, Condie, and Cheney?

 

[Biltmore Bob]

That's great Froggy,

Where's Rummy, Condie, and Cheney?

I wouldn't eat that fish if I were them. Looks like a Striper. Wonder what they used for bait, food stamps? Oh that was bad...real bad.

 

[shamus]

Bitmore,

Don't take what I say personal. I'm simply debating.

Walk the walk and talk the talk, but don't live the talk... it's just talk.

I have no ill-feelings towards you or anyone else, and I really like everyone here. We all have something in common. Now if your dad was George W. then yes you can take offense, but otherwise he's just another CEO and should be treated as such.