Hurricane Katrina

[Brad Bowers]

Paddy,

I've heard that blacks make up almost 70% of the population of New Orleans, and account for about 80% of those living below the poverty-level. The majority of the folks you're seeing on TV were the ones who had no means to evacuate the city because of their poverty. All of the upper and middle class folks had money and transportation means to leave. Left behind are the poor folks, mostly black, but some whites as well. My numbers are coming from memory, so they may be off, but you get the point.

America likes to pretend it has no class division, but I think that Katrina will force everyone to take a good long look at how we deal with those living below the poverty level. And there are a bunch all across the country.

As for looting, if I were trying to keep my family alive, I would do what I could to provide them with water and food. If I were a police officer, I would look the other way at people taking necessities, and only crack down on those idiots taking TVs. Like Bob said, what the heck are they going to do with a TV anyway?

I am heartbroken and outraged at the same time.

Brad

 

[MudInYerEye]

I live about a ten minute walk from where the Twin Towers used to be. I watched them fall.
What's happening in New Orleans seems to me to be far, far worse. By this I am not referring to human life lost or damage incurred but by the way it's been handled. When we were attacked, things were chaotic for a few hours at most, and then the city banded together. Everybody came out of the woodwork and pitched in, regardless of class, race, or political beliefs. We as a city and community united and overcame and are stronger for it. It was a GREAT moment in American History.
What's going on in New Orleans has knocked down my faith in humanity like a house of cards. We will remember this for a long time. Hopefully, something will be learned from this as well. What that is I am not sure and frankly too distressed to consider.
How could this happen?

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Not all of the people left in New Orleans were there because they were too poor to get out. I very much doubt that there are all that many people in NO who are so poor they couldn't find some way to get out of the city.

A lot of people stayed because they were foolish and thought the storm would be no big deal. A lot stayed because they were old or disabled and didn't want to leave their home. And I bet a lot stayed because they thought that they could let loose and start stealing and raping once the city was half-destroyed. Certainly most citizens didn't have evil intentions but certainly a percentage did.

The sad thing is that the bad people there are making the city look bad to the outside world while I am sure there are thousands of good, decent people just trying to survive there.

 

[android]

The problem in the US is not so much of a racial division but rather of a cultural division. Just like all Americans, Blacks can choose to become educated, productive citizens. But a large portion of the black community has been raised to look to make the easy money. This means you either make it huge in sports or entertainment which is a one in a million chance, or you join a gang and sell drugs and become the big dog in your neighborhood. There's little respect for the kid that goes to school and studies and goes to college. In fact, they're derided as "Oreos" meaning they're black on the outside, but white on the inside. It's a very hard social obstacle for a young person to overcome and by the time they're out of highschool, it's too late, they're stuck in the vicious cycle.

Most white americans (I am one) seem to have little or no prejudice based on race alone. I work in a large company with every race you can imagine. Sure, you'll run into the occassional asshole that still calls blacks n*gg*rs, but I don't think there are that many of them left.

But, if you follow a ghetto culture, idolizing rap and gangs , you will find a lot of prejudice and I don't think it is unjustified. We *should* judge people by their beliefs and attitudes and the way they act. Bill Cosby has been preaching this to mostly deaf ears for quite some time trying to explain that the way out of poverty is education and initiative. It's a long, hard road.

 

[Big Man]

In my part of the South we all, black and white, work together for the common good. Every race has its share of individuals who are less than "model citizens". It is difficult to respond to some of the questions about the black population and the present situation in New Orleans that have been raised without sounding like a racist, so I will refrain from making comments that may be misconstrued (both by the reader and by my admitted inability to adequately phrase my comments). However, there are two things I will say:

First, I suspect the majority of the good, decent, law-abiding, productive citizens - both black and white - heeded the evacuation orders and left the city prior to the storm. The remainder (while I am sure there are still a lot of good, descent, law-abiding, and productive citizens who couldn't or were trapped), are a majority of those kinds of individuals - again, black and white - who have little or no regard for the law under the best of conditions. Given the horrific and desperate situation these people are in, breakdown of order is inevitable. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

Second, while I in no way want to play down the extremely horrible situation, you must recognize that for whatever reason the news media is focusing in on the worst of the worst. On 9/11 the media almost exclusively (at least that media that I was exposed to) focused on the "positives" of a terrible situation. Having worked disasters of varying sizes as a responder (although admittedly, thank God, not to the magnitude of this one), I know that there are always, in every situation, that lawless bunch that will do terrible things to themselves and their fellow man.

The quote below is from a "Firehouse.Com" article. As a Firefighter I am following the situation closely from the perspective of fire/rescue/emergency management. It may give some insight into what kinds of people are left in the city and what the conditions are like. Unless there is a massive and immediate Federal intervention, am not sure what the eventual outcome will be in this situation.

FIREHOUSE.COM NEWS
Compiled by Staff


Firehouse.Com News has been able to contact a New Orleans firefighter for two brief conversations. Other then his POV, this firefighter has lost everything he owns including his home located in the flooded area of the city.

He says the fire department is in bad shape right now. Many of the firefighters, both off and on duty, are missing and there is no real accountability system. The fire department has pulled out of New Orleans and retreated to the suburbs of Algiers across the Mississippi where they are under the protection of armed National Guardsmen and many of the firefighters are carrying guns themselves.

Many of the firefighters have had their lives threatened by armed civilians while they were battling fires and trying to assist them. At the Bourbon and Canal Streets fire, they were looting the buildings directly adjacent to the fire building and with no regard to the work going on there. He is carrying both of his handguns.

Last night, a staff meeting was held to discuss the fact that additional armed forces were coming into the city to try and restore order and then they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll be going back to work. Right now, they are letting whatever catches fire to burn as it is too dangerous to work. CNN television broadcasts were showing a burning building in the business district of the city Friday morning with no fire suppression. Additionally they reported a large warehouse fire across the river that was not receiving any suppression either.

Many of the firefighters have been victims of violence on the streets from civilians and they were in extreme danger it seems. At the same time, it seems that none of them have been injured, but without accountability, it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s really unknown. At least 75 percent of the department?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s members have lost their homes, but it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s really too early to see the exact numbers.

 

[Deleted member 259]

There are a lot of stories out there, and some of them even extend into netspace.
One guys who works in the data center for a website I've visited is trapped there, keeping things alive and has a blog you can read that really give you a feel for what it's like in Downtown New Orleans right now.

first hand account

 

[hatflick1]

BILTMORE BOB REACHING OUT

Good for you. It's honorable to reach out and sponsor a couple of kids in the wake of this tragedy. Let me know...no all of us here on the Longe who live thousands of miles away know...how we can support your effort.
Hatflick1

 

[Biltmore Bob]

We have not been contacted back by the Red Cross or Share Your Home yet, but that's to be understood. It's a logistical nightmare down here right now. There's kids that don't know where there parents are, or even if they are alive. We volunteered to take a couple of kids between the ages of 6 and 10, my small kid's ages. And/or an infant. Of course they have to do a background check, even cursory to see if you have a criminal history. I can't take adults, but I'm considering a young mother with kids. If I do that all I have to do is go pick one up from a shelter. We are going to go to Social Services Monday and register as Foster Parents too.

We are on our way in a few minutes to drop off a load of supplies/clothes and shoes to one of the area shelters. I'll let y'all know what the conditions and the mood is.

To God be the glory...

 

[Trickeration]

My husband's an officer in the Coast Guard Reserve, and was already underway for a week of patrols along the So Cal coast when Katrina hit. The CG has sent 29 cutters there so far, and they're still looking for reservists who will voluteer to go New Orelans and Biloxi. My husband submitted his request last night, and we're now waiting for response. We have no idea what his job would be.

It's nice to hear that people here at the lounge are doing what they can to help. As you pray for the victims of the Katrina, also pray for those who will be going in later to for the recovery and clean-up process. It will be a gruesome job, in literally a sea of bacteria.

Bilmore Bob-What you and your family is doing is wonderful.
Fedora Lounge-We have been entertaining an angel.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

No angel here, thanks for the complement. I'm familiar with the verse.

Just hate to see something like that happen to my kids.

 

[Trickeration]

I'm sure many people feel that way about their kids, but not as many would be willing to take in strangers. You are still doing a great thing. By the way, I haven't heard much here about the younger refugees. Are their many kids who's families are missing or that have been orphaned? I would imagine they're still just starting to get that sorted out. How was the shelter situation?

 

[Biltmore Bob]

There are hundreds of shelters from Houston to San Antonio and Houston to Dallas. The place we visited ended up not accepting people till tomorrow, so we ended up going to a drop off point. There was an evacuee there looking for clothes and just happened to be my size and could use all the clothes I contributed. We did not make it to the Dome because the there were more volunteers than needed and they were tripping over one another, it being Saturday and all. We are really excited that we can be a blessing to someone in need. CPS is working frantically to place orphaned children. They are discovering children at the Dome and Center abandoned with no adult supervision at all. What a nightmare for a child.

Just pray for us, we ain't rich but the Lord will provide, as you know.

 

[ITG]

I heard yesterday that the school district I work for is expecting about 10,000 new students next week. There's also a rumbling in Austin that they may not hold Texas school accountable for state testing this year either due to the influx of out of state children.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Bob what you're doing should be insperation to all of us.
S/F bro.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Too bad, too. We might actually have some real change in this once great country America.

Too bad you couldn't also talk about the coruption on the other side, too. Or pass up this opertunity to turn a Hurricane into something political.

What?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s with the Crack against this Administration? This problem and it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s potential was around long before George W. Bush arrived in Washington?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ while he deserves some of the blame for what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s happened during his watch, there were 8 years under Clinton, and those who came before him.

Don't forget the Govenors and State Reps on both sides of the isle.

You like to talk about how those on the right dodge taxes, while Mrs. Hines-Kerry paid less then 20% in taxes because she used the same shelters for her own fortune. Just as many hypocritical democrats are guilty of the crimes committed by Right that you accuse them of.

You think somehow the world magically turned sour the moment Dubya took the oath of office? Problems that have existed for decades and are coming to ahead because of the inaction of many administrations, many Presidents and Governors are at fault.

It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s embarrassingly simplistic to believe in all these works of Fantasy and Science Fiction that everything bad that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s happened is a brilliant and calculated Conspiracy from someone who is supposed to be as dumb as a Rock. Radical Leftists can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t have it both ways ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú He?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s either the idiot that the Village of Crawford is missing, or he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the Texas ?¢‚Ǩ?ìDr. No.?¢‚Ǩ?

Where have the Democrats been? You know?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ the ones who ?¢‚Ǩ?ìFight and Speak?¢‚Ǩ? for the poor and people of Color?

For letters: A*W*O*L.

They failed the people of that city and that state. That city has hundreds of millions of dollars coming in from shipping and tourism, and yet they couldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t do something about the levees? What's wrong with that picture.

Not ONE party failed these people, ALL parties did. The Bureaucracy killed these people...

 

[up196]

Some thoughts on New Orleams . . .

It seems that people are looking for the reason for the situation in New Orleans. The reality is that there is no single reason; Katrina was a two-fold event. Let me explain:

Many people did not or could not evacuate. Many residents had lived through Hurricane Betsy in 1965 and felt confident they could ride out Katrina. They were correct. It seems that the initial hurricane strike knocked out power and water utilities and caused standing rainwater in low-lying areas.

After the initial strike, the flood retaining wall at the 17th Street Canal failed, releasing water from Lake Ponchartrain into the north-west area of the city. The flood retaining wall at the London Avenue Canal also failed, allowing lake water into the north-central part of the city. Finally, the breach at the Industrial Canal began flooding from the east. All this water began creeping south toward the French Quarter, which is on relatively high ground near the River.

This pattern of flooding is in the opposite direction of the way the city had grown and expanded over the decades, from the higher ground near the river north toward the lower-lying areas on the shore of the lake. The area flooded east of the 17th Street Canal is known as "Lakeview", it is all land that was "reclaimed", filled and drained, from the lake as the city expanded.

This pattern of flooding drove those who had remained, and who had successfully ridden out the strom's strike, toward the south, to seek refuge in the Superdome, the French Quarter or the Convention Center along the river, which remained relatively dry.

The issue of race only enters this picture in the demographics of the areas that progressively flooded. Some of the areas surrounding the remaining high ground are low-income housing, whose residents likely could not evacuate and sought refuge at the Superdome. Lakeview is mid to upper middle class, but the residents more likely had the resources to leave. Many remained in their homes.

So to sum up, New Orleans survived the hurricane, but not the subsequent flood.

My family and I were lucky. Our house is about a mile west of the 17th Street Canal breach, in neighboring Jefferson Parish. We had evacuated to Houston, where I am writing from now at the Crowne Plaza. On Friday, I hitched a ride home with one of the other Special Agents working our area.

My house is intact and did not flood; we can move back as soon as utilities are restored. The family will stay for a time in Houston, but I'll be heading back to work Monday.

We have another member, "webfosbery", who stayed home for the duration. He's the guy who lets me borrow his 1928 Thompson whenever I "need one". His life and family too has remained intact. I stopped by there on my way out Friday and brought him my stash of gasoline from my house for his generator. He expects to have power restored by today, but I'll bring him more supplies when I go back just in case.

Finally, let me say thanks to the people and the City of Houston. They have gone far beyond what's helpful, from reduced rates at the hotel to free food for evacuees to waiving the activation fee on a new Nextel phone I got for my wife so she can contact me when I go back (cellular does not work there, but our Nextel walkie-talkies do).

Respectfully, Tom Carmichael, "up196"

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Glad you made it out alright and your stuff is OK. Houston is great, and Texas is is truly great.

 

[android]

What?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s with the Crack against this Administration? This problem and it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s potential was around long before George W. Bush arrived in Washington?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ while he deserves some of the blame for what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s happened during his watch, there were 8 years under Clinton, and those who came before him.

The biggest crack is that FEMA actually had hurricane response down under the previous administrations. They had learned from their lessons in FL and did a pretty damn good job of dealing with them. I have relatives in FL and they will attest to this.

However, George W. decided it would be a great idea to absorb FEMA into DHS and put a lawyer in charge who had never done any disaster preparedness until his appointment to the position. FEMA's ability to respond has been severely hampered by this.

DHS was supposed to focus on all types of threats both terrorists and natural disasters. It's obvious that they are prepared for neither. There would be no difference between this situation and having to evacuate a large city because of a dirty bomb of some type of chemical warfare.

Any good plan would include not only evacuation plans, but plans for where the people would evacuate to. DHS's plan was sorely lacking and that's all George's doing, not his predecessor's fault.

Sure, the LA politicos are definitely to blame also, but that does nothing to reduce the fault of the feds.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Barn doors, y'all...

 

[hatflick1]

Dems AWOL

Renderking Fisk, you are 100% right. The Democrats, except for criticism of the administration, have been as AWOL as Lt. George W. Bush was when the Air Force started drug testing back in the early seventies. The tragedy in New Orleans points out sadly that at the core of the US body politic is...spin.
And things have spun out of control in relief to Lousiana and the Gulf states, the war in Iraq, the deterioration of public education, a non-energy policy, an anti-environmental agenda and on and on. Perhaps all of this suggests the need for a third party to keep America from further slipping into the Thrid World.