Hurricane Katrina

[airfrogusmc]

Fisk,
It aint just democrats (Newt Gingrich) that are critical of the non existent leadership early on in this disaster. Why didn't he (Bush) call in the 82nd Airborne and helicopter in food and water as soon as the storm cleared? It took more than 48 critical hours of nothing before he even acknowledge a problem and then he was more worried about looting than getting the people food and water. Its a national disgrace and who ever was in office Democrat or Republican should be held accountable. Why aren't the oil companies being made to roll back the price of gas? With Conoco Phillips profits up 56% last year and a war on why can't they be held in check in relation to their profit taken? Why do other Americans have to sacrifice but big oil can keep on racking in historic profits at the expense of our economy and our future? To me this isn't a red or blue issue. Its whats right and whats wrong and accountability. We are always being told about from conservatives about liberals not being accountable well it happened on Bushes watch and now were being told it ain't his fault. Kind hypocritical don't ya think? Wheres the accountability?

 

[android]

Kuwait donated half a billion dollars worth of crude oil today. A very gracious gesture from our only true middle eastern ally.

 

[ITG]

Wait a second. This is what I heard. The FEMA/disaster relief people didn't go in right away b/c the Louisiana govenor didn't call for help right away and they can't do anything until he does so. Given they should have probably asked him a bit sooner: "Hey Govenor, do you need our help?" But from I heard he didn't go through the proper steps quick enough. I wouldn't go blamely Bush solely. It seems there are several parties responsible, not just one.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Bush don't control the weather...

The mayor of New Orleans and the Gov. of LA know the conditions of that area of the country, they should have had a better contingency plan.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I am just relieved that help has now arrived. I fear the body count on this one is going to surpass our biggest U.S. hurricane disaster (Galveston, 1900).

There is plenty of blame to go around:

people who went into denial and stayed when they could have gotten out

those who left in half empty cars without checking to see who might need a ride

the mayor, who warned people to get out, but did not utilize the many school buses to give people a ride to the Superdome or out of town.

to the city government for not immediately commandeering supplies and medical providers to go to the Superdome.

The State, caught up in a bureaucratic entanglement with the Homeland Security folks and FEMA. They were worried more about treading on others territory, or someone treading on theirs.

The State for years of destroying the wetlands in and around New Orleans, land that could have absorbed much of the storm surge and spared the city the monstrous flooding.

And, yes, the Feds. Homeland Security has been up and running (?!) for several years now. Do you feel safer from terrorism? From natural disasters? FEMA was folded into Homeland Security -- not sure that was such a good idea.

The Bush administration who took money that the Clinton administration had earmarked for upgrading levees to use for the Iraqi war.

I think there will be some finger pointing and investigations. I hope something positive comes of this and that, next time, everyone won't be caught unawares....

karol

 

[ITG]

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine. Her husband was in the AF reserves and had his monthly training this weekend. Saturday morning he reported in for drill practice and they asked him "Where are your bags?" He was like "What?" Well, they neglected to tell him that he was being put on active duty to help with the relief effort in New Orleans and he had to call his wife (my friend) up and have her pack his military bags for him and drive out to the base real fast before they flew off. Imagine his surprise!

Oh and then a lady's husband at church is an Air Marshall and has been called to fly in and out of the New Orleans. He's been in and out of the the NO airport. Evidentally they're hoping to reopen it in November but he doesn't know how it'll be ready by then because the place is a mess with dead bodies everywhere and feces and urine all over the place.

 

[Phil_in_CS]

Any good plan would include not only evacuation plans, but plans for where the people would evacuate to. DHS's plan was sorely lacking and that's all George's doing, not his predecessor's fault.

Sure, the LA politicos are definitely to blame also, but that does nothing to reduce the fault of the feds.

This is the responsibility of local government in our system of government. The can ask for help from the feds, but the plans are to be done by city and country/parish, and then state. New Orleans had many plans in place, and they failed to carry them out. And any plan that requires people who can't evacuate to walk to a shelter and cram 25,000 into the dome is bound to fail.

Sorry, I spent yesterday working with refugee's in shelters here. We're 400 miles away, and off the beaten path, so we got the ones who had initiative and means to get out early, and 95% are African American. They blame the city and state.

 

[Big Man]

It's easy to place "blame" on why this or that didn't happen, but the reality of it all is that a total evacuation of a major city is unprecedented. Response to any disaster of major consequence, much less to one of this enormous magnitude, always appears to be somewhat slow. Plain and simple, it just takes time to mobilize that volume of resources. Could the government (local, state, and federal) have done a better job - of course. Would the people ("taxpayers") support the expenditures necessary to proactively deal with the problems - of course not.

What has not been reported is the successful pre-evacuation of apparently tens of thousands of residents.

 

[android]

This is the responsibility of local government in our system of government. The can ask for help from the feds, but the plans are to be done by city and country/parish, and then state.

It can't be state managed. Take the #1 disaster scenario which is a nuclear device in NYC. Suppose it's a dirty bomb that only kills 50,000. There is no way the state of New York could absorb the entire population of the evacuated city within its borders.

DHS and FEMA must be responsible for coordinating interstate plans. You can't rely on state governors to pick up the phone after the disaster occurs, call the governor of the state next door and say, "Hey, you got room for a quarter million people?" This stuff has to be planned in advance and intrastate doesn't cut it. The is the domain of the Feds.

 

[Phil_in_CS]

What has not been reported is the successful pre-evacuation of apparently tens of thousands of residents.

Bad news sells more than good... There are many good stories if you talk to the people; a family I met picked up a hitchhikers on the way out. Others picked up people who's cars had broken down. My mom and dad's town of 19,000 has 8,000 people living in shelters, schools, and people have invited in total strangers to thier homes. Thousands of people with boats have driven there on their own nickle to help rescue people.

On android's point, it may not be possible for states to do this. Big Man points out its never happened before; they did get over a million out with the plan they had in place. While states may not be able to do the planning properly, under current federal law it is their job.

When the dust settles on some of this, compare the plans in place in Florida, Texas, and Virgina, to those in LA. Some states plan better than others. In LA it looks more like the problem was in execution rather than planning, although as Big Man points out, they got out a higher percentage than anyone else has.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

But, Andy, you can't blame Bush...

He's the one that told the Democrat Gov. of LA to get off her butt and order the evac and ask for Federal assistance.

 

[airfrogusmc]

For arguments sake lets say my wife and I have an agreement that she has to ask first for my help with the kids. If my kids are in the basement and lets say it flooding and I'm upstairs on the couch should I get off the couch and save them or wait for my wife to ask me to save them? Commander and Chief means leadership.
This storm was the worst that we've had in decades. We KNEW it was coming and we knew it would be horrific. Hes the President and can send the Marines anywhere he wants and he should've sent them in as soon as the storm cleared. Leadership is his job. Those are decisions that strong leaders make. Its not just New Orleans that needed help its Alabama and Mississippi to.
Didn't he create an entire new branch of Government to handle emergencies? I know terrorism but our federal government couldn't handle this how the hell could it handle a nuclear terrorist attack on a major city? Even hard corps conservatives have been critical of the response. Bottom line is this happened on his watch kinda makes him accountable. I could just imagine if this would have happened with a Democrate in office.

 

[android]

Important Duties for Firefighters

But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

See: Salt Lake Tribune

BTW: Since I have conservative libertarian leanings, I'd be hammer a Democratic President even more.

 

[hatflick1]

Katrina Relief and Relieving

In any war, if a commander is not acting with haste and perseverence, he is relieved. It happened over and over again in WWII where admirals, generals and colonels were yanked on the spot. Truman had the cojones to relieve MacArthur who was costing lives in Korea. Hugely unpopular at the time, except, of course, with the American 'boots on the ground' throughout that frigid, war-torn peninsula. In Vietnam officers who screwed up and caused preventable loss of life or sent line companies off into reckless missions were themselves sent packing. Read any of the highly decorated (late) Colonel David Hackworth's books. Administration spokeholes stating repeatedly that this is not the time to point fingers of blame is spin. The head of FEMA and Head of Homeland Security should be relieved and replaced by appointees who actually have credentials and experience to present rather than the secret handshake which serves as entree into the buddy system of the current administration. When this hurricane hit and all hell was clealry breaking lose, the President was on vacation. The Vice President was on vacation. Condaleeza Rice was out shopping. And, once the horrific damage became clear, the Speaker of the House's first instinct is to hint at letting New Orleans RIP, a statement he quickly redefined and spun as being interpreted incorrectly. Who among us could louse up our jobs like these clowns have and not get canned? These are elecetd officials who should be ejected officials. Even the bs'er exrtordinaire Bill Clinton himself candidly admitted in an interview in Houston that the federal governemnt failed. It does everyday. The war. The borders. Prices at the pump. Meanwhile, ordinary Americans are pouring out their hearts. Opening their doors and wallets. And performing with a valor and selflessness that should make those in the Beltway blush. We deserve better. The only way we'll get it is if we demand it. Let's start now.
God bless us, every one.

 

[hatflick1]

NEW STORM BREWING

Oh, great! First Katrina. Now Washington is going to hit us with a paper storm. It's the feds' way of responding to its own footdragging in the hurricane's aftermath.
I say, sure, go ahead, guys and girls. Have at it. But pump out the thousands of pages on your own time and dime. This voluminous tome of bs should be off the taxpayer's expense account.
While we're at it, how many in Congress bothered to read the 911 Commisson Report? Hmm?

 

[Big Man]

... Meanwhile, ordinary Americans are pouring out their hearts. Opening their doors and wallets. And performing with a valor and selflessness ...

This is what makes America great, and to a large degree, sets us apart from many other nations of the world.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Airfrog...

Here's a better scenario,

I'm on a business trip and am unable to get home for a few days for logistical reasons, say I'm over seas. My wife is home and is fully able to care for my kids. We have a contingency plan that we planned to emplement in case of emergency. The kids are in the basement playing, and it starts flooding. She refuses to help or even ttell them to get out until the water is well over their heads. Some of my kids are injured and some die. All the while she's on the phone with me and I'm telling her to get the kids to safety and I'll be home as soon as I can. When I get home she starts to blame me because I did not do anything, or act soon enough.

Ok, here you go,

I spend most of my time away from home earning a living for my family, I send alot of money home for home improvements because my house is not up to specs. and is a fire hazard. My wife chooses not to spend the money on home improvements and uses it for other trivial things. The house burns down while I'm away. While It's burning my wife calls me and I say get the kids out I'll be home to help as soon as I can. She does not save the kids, and blames me for not helping .

 

[shamus]

I could just imagine if this would have happened with a Democrate in office.

well if we did have a democrate in office, we probably wouldn't have the entire national guard in Iraq, as we wouldn't have spent billions and thousands of lives fighting a "war" and we wouldn't have the budget cuts on New Orleans levies and city wouldn't be underwater, and we'd have thousands of national guard troops to help clean up because they'd be in the USA where they're suppose to be. ie: NATIONAL Guard.

Yeah, just think if we did have a democrate in office.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Shamus,

The Congressional Ways and Means Committie are the one that aprove money for special projects like levy reinforcement etc...not the President. Why were the levys not reinforced during the Clinton admin.

 

[shamus]

So your saying that the Bush Administration had nothing to do with it and it's all Clintons Administrations fault? Is that what you're saying? Why not go back futher, to Bush Sr. why didn't he do it? Or Regan? But you'll probably say it's was Carters...