How warm is the A2 and M422 / G1?

[Graemsay]

I'm currently trying to sort out an order with John Chapman for a jacket. OK, I have been for a while, but we've both been variously occupied with other things, and I'm the world's most indecisive person.

I'd originally been thinking about an M422 or G1 style jacket, but saw an old thread suggesting that they're not so suited to a milder climate. Given it doesn't really get much below 10 degrees Celsius (about 50 degrees Fahrenheit), I'm concerned about curtailing the window in which it's wearable.

Anyone got any experience with this?

Also, how does the A2 compare to a civilian jacket without the woollen cuffs?

 

[AdeeC]

I have an original M422A and quite suitable in Southern Australian weather for about 6 months wear a year. The jacket has only a thin rayon lining. Should be OK in weather under 15C and ideal at 10C. Not much different to my A2's though obviously the fur collar is warmer around the neck.

 

[Big J]

There is thread that asks this exact question, and I said that the A-2 was warmer than the G-1, and everyone else disagreed[huh]
You should try a search for it.

 

[nick123]

Neither are exceptionally warm compared to a regular jacket or heavy sweater. With that said, I'd say it's kind of a toss-up. The G-1 wins in warmth near the neck due to the fur collar, but the linings of A-2s (usually cotton) and G-1s/M-422as (usually a rayon or like material) produce different "feels" of warmth. Cotton feels like a layer of extra shirting pressed close to the body, while G-1 linings tend to feel "cool" when you first put them on, but after wearing it for a while, it will kind of "trap your body heat". It produces kind of a humid-like heat, whereas the A-2 just produces a traditional "snug and warm" feel. The G-1 feels kind of "airy" as well.

Hmm, probably the G-1. But actually cold when you first put it on!

 

[Graemsay]

Thanks.

Anyone got any comparisons with (e.g.) a half-belt? Do the knitted cuffs trap heat at all?

AdeeC, I'm in Melbourne which has a reputation for cold weather. (I think that the locals are soft.) SA is a bit warmer.

 

[Carlos840]

There is only so much warmth you can get from a cotton or rayon lining in a leather jacket.
Leather offers very little heat insulation but is a good wind breaker. Cotton or rayon aren't great either.
I have never worn an M422 or G1 but i guess they are just like any leather jacket with that kind of lining.
That's to say, it depends on how cold you get, and how cold it gets where you live.

 

[Seb Lucas]

From experience, an A2 in Melbourne will be just right for the few colder weeks we have, too warm most of the year. There is some additional wear in the evening but it can mean carrying heavy leather around during the day (compared to a denim jacket, say). The knits aren't all that useful I find. A light goatskin halfbelt is more useful. Anything over 2.5 oz leather is not practical.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Woollen cuffs will be uncomfortable as it warms up making the jacket less versatile in our warmer weather. Today for instance, at 18, I find my leather jackets a bit too warm.

 

[AdeeC]

Woollen cuffs will be uncomfortable as it warms up making the jacket less versatile in our warmer weather. Today for instance, at 18, I find my leather jackets a bit too warm.

Will do nicely though for stepping out in the evening.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Yes I said that already.

 

[devilish]

I find my GW G-1 to be warmer on average than my much thicker leathered GW A-2. I think it's because of the closer fit of the G-1 pattern. Retains that warm air layer better than the more blousey A-2. Also the mouton collar does trap heat in quite well.

 

[Big J]

I find my GW G-1 to be warmer on average than my much thicker leathered GW A-2. I think it's because of the closer fit of the G-1 pattern. Retains that warm air layer better than the more blousey A-2. Also the mouton collar does trap heat in quite well.

Whereas, conversely, I find that the slightly baggier cut of the A-2, combined with the natural fibers of the lining, traps a layer of air that insulates me much better than the M442a, with it's close cut that allows the leather to conduct heat away from my torso directly through the synthetic lining.

 

[Graemsay]

Thanks Seb. Getting a local opinion is helpful. Maybe I'll take another look at JC's civilian jackets.

It looks like Devilish and Big J are disagreeing. Just to confuse me.

 

[Sloan1874]

The difficulty I have with Rayon is that when the sun comes out, it almost welds itself to your back.

 

[Big J]

The difficulty I have with Rayon is that when the sun comes out, it almost welds itself to your back.

Yeah, it's not a great lining choice. I wonder why the USN chose it?

 

[Doctor Strange]

Chiming in: Most A-2 and M-422A/G-1 flight jackets are pretty comparable in terms of insulation. It's really more a matter of what you wear under them. With a long-sleeve shirt and a good sweater (and a hat), they're generally comfortable into the mid-40s. Of course, even at the same given temp, there's a big difference between being in bright sun and little breeze vs. major wind/rain. Then there's the walking vigorously vs. just sitting aspect.

For me, my G&B M-422A is the warmest by just a fraction, mainly due to the fur collar. My Good Wear A-2 is next, with its thicker horsehide, wool knits, and comfy cotton lining. My G&B Civil A-2 comes in last, with its scratchy synthetic knits and too-slick-for-comfort Dacron lining.

 

[bn1966]

I had an ELC M-422A & found it heavy & warm, my ELC A-2 HH is light and quite suitable for spring / summer IMHO with Southern UK temperatures. My '72 Star Sportswear G-1 is only slightly heavier and a good Spring / Autumn jacket (much lighter than my M-422A). The A-2 is a 46 & very form fitting, the G-1 a 48 and more roomy

 

[Seb Lucas]

The OP needs a less warm jacket option given the climate here.

A goat A2 (as opposed to horsehide) is lighter and more useful. You will be able to get some wear from one of these but it isn't the most useful leather jacket for our conditions. But if the look turns you on go for it.

Having collected jackets for over 30 years and worn everything from 4oz steer to 1.3oz calfskin, my view would be that a light leather (mid-weight horsehide, cow, but preferably goat) in a more versatile style (Highwayman or half-belt) would be the best option for Melbourne.

But a lot depends on how hot you run as an individual. I never use heating in Melbourne or need much more than a denim jacket except over four or five mid winter weeks. I don't drive a car unless I absolutely have to, so I experience more weather than some people. If you use a car a lot you probably rarely need a jacket full stop.

 

[thor]

Yeah, it's not a great lining choice. I wonder why the USN chose it?

I think the Navy chose rayon as a flight jacket lining because cotton tends to rot easily in a salt water/salt air environment while rayon is more water/weather/salt resistant. They also made blood chits out of rayon because, aside from lasting longer in salt water and wet jungle conditions (where downed aviators would invariably end up after ditching) rayon blood chits were more rip and tear resistant.

 

[Big J]

I think the Navy chose rayon as a flight jacket lining because cotton tends to rot easily in a salt water/salt air environment while rayon is more water/weather/salt resistant. They also made blood chits out of rayon because, aside from lasting longer in salt water and wet jungle conditions (where downed aviators would invariably end up after ditching) rayon blood chits were more rip and tear resistant.

Thank you very much! That's very interesting.