How they wore them in the 40's

[Blackjack]

I tried a little experiment this week. I went to Burlington and bought a pair of rather baggy cords, in a size larger than I really needed. I have another pair of the same pants in a 36 (my normal size) and I'll tell you I wore them both with suspenders and after getting used to the "loose" feeling around the waist, I realized Hey, I LIKE this! Much more comfortable way to wear pants, I'd even be able to comfortably tuck a sweater in if I wished.

I'm not going to go switching all my pants out but a couple of pairs I could live with. The most interesting part is when I came out wearing them (cinched up with a belt this time) my wife who is not retro at all giggled a little and said " You look like one of those guys in those old movies". Never got that response when I wore the same pants in the "proper size". Hmmm...

 

[cowboy76]

Sorry, but I think you guys are way off. Having worn vintage for many years I have noticed two things. One, if you have a waist slimmer than your hips, vintage slacks fit very nicely as they are cut and a belt is simply for the extra bit of adjustment that is needed as your waist will fluctuate a half inch or so.

Secondly, if you have a waist a little bigger than that, you will start to have trouble with them falling down a bit below so you might need a belt to cinch them in or wear suspenders.

if you have a waist much bigger than that, back then you would wear your pants way up on your gut like fred mertz or lou costello, and use suspenders to hold them up. If they slipped below your gut, they would be way loos on your waist and hips.

Think about it, today, waists are much lower, in my opinion, because more men have guts so the choice is either to war them way high which would look silly today, or wear them below the gut, cinched around the waist.

But back then, most younger men would have slim waists until they were middle aged. I think pants were definitely designed to fit comfortably somewhat snugly around the waist.

back in SF I used to dance so much and eat so healthily, that I was very slim and my pants were so comfortable. Now that I am gaining weight, I find my high waisted pants keep slipping down to my hips. Very annoying.

I completely agree with you on this!

I have found the exact same findings in regards to fit, comfort and so on. If you look at photos from the 30s and 40s, you will notice no heavily cinched belts,....if you do, they stick out, and look messy,...unkempt.

Look at Gene Kelly, Astair, Sinatra, William Powell, Gable,....look at their waists,....you'll notice no winkles that come with large sized trousers. My barber said, if his trousers back then were loose, he'd eventually get them taken in,....the anatomical designis one of the letter "V". Any looser and they'd fall to the ground,..."like spats!" Regardless of weight, ya need a belt or braces brother!

High waisted trousers of the 1940s were meant to be worn above the navel, this is why if you scoot them down lower they want to fall down on you!,...YIKES!!

 

[cowboy76]

I don't remember where read it ( may have been Classic Style) but they had a collector who acquired one of Bogarts suits from the Big Sleep I think and it had as I remember a 34 waist. I cannot believe he had a 34 waistline so there must be "something" to this.

Not really. Modern clothing is made and cut larger these days, but with smaller sizes on the tags. My wife takes about a size 12 vintage (30s-40s) but modern size is a size 4-6. I see it all the time with her. In fact, I'm a modern size 40-42 jacket, but in vintage I'm more a size 42-44, sometimes depending on the maker, even a 46 at one point! In shirts, modern I wear a medium, or large,...vintage I need a large or XL.

I checked this with a few sources. With my barber, (85 yrs old), grandfather, grandmother, and other grandparents also.
I mentioned it years ago to a well-known vintage collector, friend and writer of books on vintage (clothing, jewelery, etc.) Roseann Ettinger. She agreed with the sizing differences. She's been at it for appox. 25 years! ( See link for her books:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...=ss&index=books&field-author=Roseann Ettinger ) I base this on those who were there to begin with, wore the clothes and a woman whom I completely and faithfully trust coming from so many years of her own research and collecting.

Yes, it is true some men wore their slacks a bit loose, but this was not the norm depending on your background, financial status, job, etc.

Its just another slice of history, we can't just do with hunches and personal opinions, the "I think, you think"...go to the source, those cats who wore them, and the people who have collected and written about it with VAST amounts of research and interviews, etc. Look at the photos,..you wont see many bunched up at the waist,...they'd be constantly pulling them up as they walked, ran, climbed stairs, etc.

 

[Blackjack]

they'd be constantly pulling them up as they walked, ran, climbed stairs, etc.

Which is why they wore suspenders I suppose....

 

[cowboy76]

Which is why they wore suspenders I suppose....

Actually not a great deal wore suspenders/braces, it was much more a half-n-half sort of thing,.....some did, some didn't. A lot didn't really....I hve several 40s high waisted trousers, only one has suspender buttons in them that were already there to begin with, and another I opted to have put in, just to give me that option if I so chose to go that route.

Braces (or suspenders as they are now more commonly called) were also differentin size for the most part during the 1940s. Most, worn with dress trousers were thin, about 3/4 or 1/2 wide,....not the wide 1.5 inch bad boys you see in your local sears these days. You did however see those more wide braces on 1940s hunting and outdoorsman clothing. My great grandfather had a pair, I have no idea what happened to them when he passed away! The majority were the button looped suspenders, but there were "some" that were the metal clip style also, though you dont see them in many photos, one maker of them were "hickory" braces/suspenders. I have two pair I beleive,..havent worn them in a while. I also have a great pair of very old white ones,....elastic is all but gone from age though, so I'm going to have a local seamstress sew in new suspender grade elastic onto the leather pieces.

Yeah, Roseanne is a very nice and helpful lady. I met her, man, it has to be about 10 years ago! I have several of the neckties from her one book, "20th Century Neckties: Pre-1955" Good book, cool history of men's neckwear! I'm a necktie nut,....you can see some of them here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4434&page=25

I've been picking up more and more 1930s ties these days though. Even some from the 1920s too! Got two great ones from back home still with their original paper tags on them! That was cool, to walk into an old mens store and actually see them in a pile with some ties from the 1970s!,....he actually had old stock still there,...sporadic, but some little stuff,...it was a great experience, better than the actual find!!

 

[cowboy76]

By the way Blackjack, I see your avatar,...like old baseball stuff from the 1940s? I picked up two wool ballcaps from the 40s a few weeks ago from a friend. One for me, one for the little gal-o-mine. Mine has an "F" on it, the other, I think has a "J",.....figures the "J" is small, being that my name is Jason! God forbid that one fit!,..

Also scored an OLD Winchester catcher's mitt,...$20 at flea market,..but I parted with it on ebay,...got $300 for it,..not bad, I was a happy cat!

 

[Blackjack]

Not a bad return on your twenty Cowboy!!! Congrats

 

[reetpleat]

Not really. Modern clothing is made and cut larger these days, but with smaller sizes on the tags. My wife takes about a size 12 vintage (30s-40s) but modern size is a size 4-6. I see it all the time with her. In fact, I'm a modern size 40-42 jacket, but in vintage I'm more a size 42-44, sometimes depending on the maker, even a 46 at one point! In shirts, modern I wear a medium, or large,...vintage I need a large or XL.

I checked this with a few sources. With my barber, (85 yrs old), grandfather, grandmother, and other grandparents also.
I mentioned it years ago to a well-known vintage collector, friend and writer of books on vintage (clothing, jewelery, etc.) Roseann Ettinger. She agreed with the sizing differences. She's been at it for appox. 25 years! ( See link for her books:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...=ss&index=books&field-author=Roseann Ettinger ) I base this on those who were there to begin with, wore the clothes and a woman whom I completely and faithfully trust coming from so many years of her own research and collecting.

Yes, it is true some men wore their slacks a bit loose, but this was not the norm depending on your background, financial status, job, etc.

Its just another slice of history, we can't just do with hunches and personal opinions, the "I think, you think"...go to the source, those cats who wore them, and the people who have collected and written about it with VAST amounts of research and interviews, etc. Look at the photos,..you wont see many bunched up at the waist,...they'd be constantly pulling them up as they walked, ran, climbed stairs, etc.

Waist thirty four sounds about right to me too. I don't know if the poster thinks that is too small or too big. But most actors back then wre not really lean and cut, buyt they stayed fairly slim and did not have guts, so Bogart being what 5'10"? would probably be a 34.

 

[reetpleat]

I think suspenders were not meant to hold up the pants entirely. Too heavy. THey wre designed to supplement a good fit in the waist, but help hold them up that extra inch or so and to pull up on the front to make the pleat drap nicely.

Frankly, as much as I love suspenders, they give me neck and shoulder strain from always having that little bit of pull on them.

 

[cowboy76]

I think suspenders were not meant to hold up the pants entirely. Too heavy. THey wre designed to supplement a good fit in the waist, but help hold them up that extra inch or so and to pull up on the front to make the pleat drap nicely.

Frankly, as much as I love suspenders, they give me neck and shoulder strain from always having that little bit of pull on them.

Have you ever worn the old ones from the 1930s or 40s? I know that the new ones I used to wear, (before i really got into vintage years back) used to do the same thing,..they ended up feeling uncomfortable,....but I dont recall having that problem with the old ones I have, and the elastic isn't shot on them either, they do a nice job.

I know from what Roseanne and a few older fellows told me, suspenders were just a personal preference,...it was either suspenders or a belt,...but other wise, you'd be pulling them up all the time,... So they did take the place of the belt.