How Stetsons and Akubras Are Made

[Wolfwood]

Nah, I always tell my wife that the Akubra people have a flock of rabbits that they shear like sheep for the hats. I trust she imagines a flock of nude rabbits eating away and growing a new fur for more hats...

EDIT: In reality, I expect that everyone here knows about the serious rabbit problem in Australia. Buying Akubra is my way of trying to help them get rid of the critters.

 

[cybergentleman]

doesn't australia also have a massive crab infestation? i thought there was some species of tree crab that swarms the place?


crab hats...erg..helmets?

ultimately i'd like to know whether the rabbits/beavers/walruses used to make hats are turned into cat food or simply discarded like trash.

 

[JimWagner]

It appears that these days most of the rabbits used commercially in Australia are farm raised. See http://www.daff.gov.au/agriculture-food/meat-wool-dairy/ilg/industries/rabbit

Interesting read and answers some of the speculations here.

 

[ScottF]

doesn't australia also have a massive crab infestation? i thought there was some species of tree crab that swarms the place?


crab hats...erg..helmets?

ultimately i'd like to know whether the rabbits/beavers/walruses used to make hats are turned into cat food or simply discarded like trash.

I know this is really getting off-topic, but I've seen anti-fur protests (sort of large ones, actually) in downtown Seattle, and it does get you thinking. I have to admit, though, that when I saw a protester carrying a huge sign showing a skinned animal, I did ask to put it away because it was making me hungry.

 

[Icedog]

I have seen these animal cruelty videos via different communities. The same animals have been tortured by the same Chinese guys making shaving brushes, artists brushes, hats, coats and numerous other things. I have no idea where the fibers came from for my hats and I must admit, I really don't care. The Chinese are notorious for their lack of compassion. They sell their kids, they drown their daughters, they poison their own babies by putting melamine in milk. They make poisonous toothpaste and toys. I really try to buy Italian hats. Not only because I am Italian but also because I believe the Italian felters are very nice to the animals from which they get their fibers. They take the beavers home for a nice home cooked meal with lots and lots of vino and then they ask very politely if they can shave them. No Chinese beaver for me, no-sir-ee-Bob. Nothin' but pure castoro Italiano for this old guinea.

 

[Lefty]

(In before the lock.)

You realize that most manufacturing being done in Italy is done by the Chinese in businesses owned by corrupt organizations, right? Your Borsalino is no longer being made by Mario to support his family. (Though I realize there's a lot of sarcasm in your post, to the point where it's difficult to even determine your meaning.)

 

[ScottF]

I have seen these animal cruelty videos via different communities. The same animals have been tortured by the same Chinese guys making shaving brushes, artists brushes, hats, coats and numerous other things. I have no idea where the fibers came from for my hats and I must admit, I really don't care. The Chinese are notorious for their lack of compassion. They sell their kids, they drown their daughters, they poison their own babies by putting melamine in milk. They make poisonous toothpaste and toys. I really try to buy Italian hats. Not only because I am Italian but also because I believe the Italian felters are very nice to the animals from which they get their fibers. They take the beavers home for a nice home cooked meal with lots and lots of vino and then they ask very politely if they can shave them. No Chinese beaver for me, no-sir-ee-Bob. Nothin' but pure castoro Italiano for this old guinea.

Edited. Sorry, but there are just too many opportunities in those last few sentences.

Someone please restrain me.

 

[Icedog]

Ah Lefty sadly my meaning is that it doesn't matter who is making the hats. The whole world is run by the almighty dollar and the pathetic truth is that the biggest winners are those who are the most corrupt and heartless. The best we can do is delude ouselves with happy stories and try not to support blatantly evil organizations.

I was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut when it was the manufacturing capitol of the world. Now the once important city is an empty, boarded up shell. The factories that once house major companies like Bridgeport Machines, General Electric, Remington Arms, Bullard Machines, Underwood Typwriters, Singer Sewing Machines, Carpenter Steel and dozens more are not even being used to house the city's homeless. But the companies still exist. It is heartbreaking to think the single most important machine ever used in manufacturing, the Bridgeport milling machine is no longer made in the USA, nevermind Bridgeport.

 

[avedwards]

It appears that these days most of the rabbits used commercially in Australia are farm raised. See http://www.daff.gov.au/agriculture-food/meat-wool-dairy/ilg/industries/rabbit

Interesting read and answers some of the speculations here.

Well at least it looks as if Akubra may get its pelts via a humane source. Lets hope the same goes for other large hatmakers like Stetson.

 

[Tiller]

I'm a bit surprised by some of the squeamishness being shown. Where do you guys think your leather supplies come from for your jackets and sweet bands? The fur felt we enjoy come from everything from fur farms, to the fur trapping trade.

I think it wouldn't hurt more people to hunt, or work on a farm, or ranch or butcher shops, or simply to understand where such products actually come from and the processes used to create a product. The only real problem I have with the video is the ineffectiveness being used to kill the animals, if I ran the plant I'd fire the guy for lack of skill.

 

[ScottF]

The only real problem I have with the video is the ineffectiveness being used to kill the animals, if I ran the plant I'd fire the guy for lack of skill.

That's where we differ - I would skin him.

 

[ScottF]

...
There are better, easier, and less costly methods to kill and skin an animal.

You all will be happy to know that the fur suppliers are using 'natural selection' to choose the beavers for fur removal:

 

[Tiller]

That's where we differ - I would skin him.

I understand the sentiment. I'm not saying I agree with how they did it, but honestly I doubt its the norm simply because I have skinned animals before, and that seems completely ineffective. I've never skinned a live animal, and never will . I see no reason why anyone would. It drags the job out longer, would be highly ineffective, and would be more time consuming then doing it on an animal that is already dead. It has to drag the process out longer then it needs to be, with no positive gains.

So I'm a bit more under the impression that this was a more isolated incident then the website lets on. I highly doubt it happens with every fur, even if it is an acceptable practice in China, because as I stated before it is ineffective.

 

[ScottF]

I understand the sentiment. I'm not saying I agree with how they did it, but honestly I doubt its the norm simply because I have skinned animals before, and that seems completely ineffective. I've never skinned a live animal, and never will . I see no reason why anyone would. It drags the job out longer, would be highly ineffective, and would be more time consuming then doing it on an animal that is already dead. It has to drag the process out longer then it needs to be, with no positive gains.

So I'm a bit more under the impression that this was a more isolated incident then the website lets on. I highly doubt it happens with every fur, even if it is an acceptable practice in China, because as I stated before it is ineffective.

The primary reason to object is that: SKINNING ANIMALS ALIVE IS NOT NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR

All other reasons are secondary. I hope you can see this, and that your response regarding "ineffective" skinning is just very dry humor.

 

[cptjeff]

You all will be happy to know that the fur suppliers are using 'natural selection' to choose the beavers for fur removal:

That is one of the most hilarious photos I have seen in my life.

 

[cybergentleman]

You can't neessarily say that skinning animals live is not the normal method- tough to know. Japanese and I guess Chinese saw the fins off live sharks and chuck the shark back in the ocean to die...in fact you could argue its the most effcient method, rather than catching the sharks, breding them then euthanizing them.


In my mind, it is just extremely deviant, and considerably inhumane behavior to do anything like this. I am not vegan, probably never will/would be. But I like to think that my leather goods are from the same cow I may be eating, and that the rest of the cow's body goes on to be used for pet food, and the bones for cooking goods, and even fertilizer.

if we are just ripping the flesh off animals and leaving them to die- that is asking for bad karma.

but anyway- if I knew that the fur felt critters were being raised for other purposes other than their fur, and being killed humanely I may feel a bit better.


the one scary thing, is that when i recently "goggled" fur felt makers etc- I found a site that listed number of furrier companies- all of which were in CHINA! then some local famer that makes wool hats from their home grown sheep.

not very conclusive.

 

[mayserwegener]

(In before the lock.)

You realize that most manufacturing being done in Italy is done by the Chinese in businesses owned by corrupt organizations, right? Your Borsalino is no longer being made by Mario to support his family. (Though I realize there's a lot of sarcasm in your post, to the point where it's difficult to even determine your meaning.)

The Borsalino production facility is still in Alessandria so I am pretty sure there are still a good number of Italians working there.

 

[Tiller]

The primary reason to object is that: SKINNING ANIMALS ALIVE IS NOT NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR

For the sake of argument (since you seem to enjoy it) I'd say that's debatable, and in fact false. It's far from our cultural normal, but we live in the west. In China there are dogs who are raised as a food supply(much like pigs and cows are here), well in India it is seen as a great honor and healthy to use cow urine, and they are even making a cola out of cow urine . Up here in the Adirondacks, you can buy buckskin jackets made from actual deer skin, I've even seen bear skin jackets, and bear skull ashtrays. Well vegans are unable to even eat fish without feeling guilty. Our culture defines us, and we as a species have had many different cultural norms in the past that are much worse then skinning a animal (a non sentient being) alive.

Over the eons their have been cultures that have seen human sacrifice as a positive thing. Torture has been the norm of much of human society, crossing racial, geographical, and cultural lines. Even here in the States, tar and feathering, public whippings, lynchings and beatings were the norm for a time. Not to mention the fact the human genocide has been normal human behavior when you look at man through the lens of time. The idea of human rights is a relatively young idea, that even today isn't as universal as we like to think. So the idea that skinning animals alive can't be "normal human behavior" is laughable. It's against OUR culture, and much of our MODERN culture around the world, but it's hardly against human behavior per se. Different cultures value different things. Human behavior is hardly as peaceful as we like to pretend it is, it is often the culture of our age that defines us.

All other reasons are secondary. I hope you can see this, and that your response regarding "ineffective" skinning is just very dry humor.

I was hoping I was making the clear point that we aren't dealing with the same cultural norms, but none the less that it's highly questionable if what we are seeing is the truth. I was making a point of it's ineffectiveness for a simpler reason, I was attempting to show why I thought it was an isolated incident. Even though there are clear cultural difference, there is no practical reason to skin an animal alive. There is no way it is "easier". It is true that it can be harder to skin a two week old dead animal, compared to a freshly (few days old) harvested one, but that problem wouldn't be solved by skinning one alive. It would be ineffective compared to just skinning one that was killed that day, therefor there would be no pragmatic reason to do it, and since this isn't a part of some ritual I'd say it was an isolated incident, being exploited by a group that has a political message to sell.

Or in other words, if you still aren't understanding my point I'll make it even clearer although it may risk getting the thread locked. I doubt it's a widespread part of the Chinese Fur Industry. Why? I have skinned animals before, and see NO way it would be an improvement of the process we use here in the west. Therefor even in a culture that has no moral problem with such methods, there is still no pragmatic reason to do it. If anything it makes the job harder. Therefore it is likely that this is an isolated incident, that is being used as political propaganda, in an attempt to make people think that this is the normal way fur is harvested.

Notice that it's an anti-fur article not a "buy American fur" article, or "buy traditional skinned fur" article.

Do you love wearing animal furs? I used to, but now I no longer love it anymore; I HATE IT! And I will give a reasonable reason for you to hate it too.

This isn't an article about "Chinese fur farm methods", it is an anti-fur article. It isn't only attempting to make that argument that this is the norm for all of the Chinese fur industry, but the undertone is it's the norm for the ENTIRE fur industry. It's bunk and a piece of propaganda. It implies that this is the norm for EVERY animal that is skinned in the Chinese Fur industry, without stating that those who enjoy fur should buy fur's that use the "western" process. It's anti-fur, and is attempting to make people think this the norm. And since the video has it's roots with PETA I question the supposed "truth" presented in the film even further.

I'll go one step further, I outright reject that idea that this is the norm in China, and unless I see more evidence (for example evidence that live skinning is used daily at Chinese fur farms as a part of company policy) I'll see it as nothing more the a political piece used in an attempt to destroy an industry that certain activist and ideologues don't agree with. The fact that there is no discussion about western methods for me further drives home the point that this is a hit piece on the entire fur industry.

 

[ScottF]

For the sake of argument (since you seem to enjoy it)

You just wasted your time. After reading your first sentence I stopped.

You've got issues, but they're your issues. Hopefully you get them worked out.

Goodbye thread.

 

[Lefty]

a animal (a non sentient being) alive.

I got through the morality by majority part (Indians drink pee-cola, so most other behavior must be justified lol ), and the irrelevant part about the use of animal goods (having nothing to do with the argument of humanity), but had to stop at this painfully flawed idea to shake my head for a while.

Oh, and I get the part about efficiency. Of course, if I really wanted to be efficient, I'd skip the entire production process.