How Stetsons and Akubras Are Made

[rlk]

I got through the morality by majority part (Indians drink pee-cola, so most other behavior must be justified lol ), and the irrelevant part about the use of animal goods (having nothing to do with the argument of humanity), but had to stop at this painfully flawed idea to shake my head for a while.

Agreeing with Lefty
Check definition:
having the power of perception by the senses.

Yes, humans are culturally varied and capable of horrors but we are animals.
If the argument is for a unique conscience(debatable too) rather than consciousness that would just make less excuse for excessive cruelty. Not really on topic so ENOUGH.

 

[rlk]

Making Felt and Different types re-link

Thought I'd make a recommendation for this ON-TOPIC link again since it went unnoticed before it seems. I found it interesting anyway...

Excellent Website:
http://www.cortadoria.pt/
click on "COMPANY" for felt making slide show.
and "PRODUCT" for different types of felt

 

[Tiller]

I got through the morality by majority part (Indians drink pee-cola, so most other behavior must be justified lol ), and the irrelevant part about the use of animal goods (having nothing to do with the argument of humanity), but had to stop at this painfully flawed idea to shake my head for a while.

Oh, and I get the part about efficiency. Of course, if I really wanted to be efficient, I'd skip the entire production process.

I'll make it "simple and long" then .

1. Cultures are different. Some cultures do things that outrage us, and we do things that outrage them. In parts of China, Korea, and other areas of the far east dogs and cats are both possible pets as well as a dinner option, much the same way pigs are in the west. Speaking of Pork, Muslims and Jews prohibit it being eaten and Orthodox Christians discourages it, considering them filthy beast, well other cultures start the day with a side of bacon. Muslims can eat cattle though, of course this upsets the Hindus and has been used as propaganda for decades in India-Pakistan relations. Rats are also worshiped by the Karin Mata Hindu sect. Kill a rat at their temple and your expected to replace it with one of solid gold. Japan loves hunting whales off it's cost, and American's hate it.... now... although we were doing the exact same thing only a few decades (ok maybe a century ago, but the point is still true) ago.... and only really quite because the market feel out of the whale oil business......

The point? Things that are "unthinkable" and "horrific" here are part of the cultural norm of other societies. Attempting to stop practices of cultures you disagree (except for human rights violations) with is known as cultural imperialism, and quite honestly I have little interest in practicing it.

I'm not so hypocritical to complain about what's cultural acceptable in other parts of the world though, when there is a good chance I'm doing something that outrages them just as much in some regard. All of that is basically a moot point though because...

2. I am the son (and Grandson) of a trapper(s). I doubt what happens in the video is "normal protocol" for a simple reason, I've actually skinned beaver, and other animals before. Skinning an animal alive would in no way help the process along, and if anything would be more ineffective. If you wanted I could show you what happens from the time an animal is trapped (for those wondering we use a twenty two to end their lives), to when it is tanned. I could show you the tools that are used, out in the field, and when it comes to the skinning and stretching, and tanning, and then show you images of pelts before they get shipped off to be made into the things we put on our heads. So bottom line I have my suspicions that what's shown in the video is little more the political propaganda. I've dealt with the entire fur trapping process, the "dirty work" if you will, there is no reason to have the animal alive. I see no reason that China's fur industry would be that much different from what is done in the west when it comes to the "dirt work", even though there are cultural differences. So until I see more evidence I'll hold back the crocodile tears, and recognizes a PETA publicity stunt when I see it.

The "ineffectiveness" also comes from the fact that if you are going to use a club to kill an animal, that isn't the way to do it. It was an ineffective kill. From what I understand, trappers in the 19th century (especially during the height of America's "mountain man" phase between 1810-1850) used bludgeons and knives to finish off their trapped game (your not going to shot a beaver with a musket). As did the Native Americans, before and after meeting Europeans. Quite honestly killing an animal with a rock, knife, or bullet is moot point.

3. If you anti-fur you really shouldn't be interested in fur felt hats, except maybe wool although some "animal rights" groups think even wool is exploitative to the poor enslaved "animal class". Stick with straw and cotton.

4. In the Golden Age that we are suppose to be emulating here, the process was the same. In fact if anything there was even less concern for the animals "well being" then, compared to how we do it. On a fun side not if you want I can show you some images of Noah John Rondeau with some of the clothes he made out of deer skin, bear, beaver, and other animals in the 1930's-1940's well he was the mayor of "Cold River City", although that would take a bit longer since those images are from some books.

5. If you aren't honest about what your eating or wearing, you have little to actually complain about. Wearing a beaver felt fedora, means multiple beaver had to be killed to make the product. A hamburger is a dead cow, and so are the leather seats you sit on. No matter how they are killed, they are killed for your consumption. The problem with what is shown in the video is in effectiveness problem, not a moral one, either way the animals are being killed for what we enjoy. Don't shy away from that fact.

6. And finally animals have no rights. Aristotle described them best as basically biological machines, not in the class of humanity. The only laws on the books regarding animal cruelty were created because of groups worried about destruction of their property (such as farmers and ranchers), or by organizations and people who personally don't like seeing animals harmed.

With that stated though I'm far from an ogre. I don't like seeing domesticated animals being harmed or attacked for no reason, and I don't like what I saw in that video. As I stated before though I think it's little more then a piece of political propaganda.

Had he simply killed the animal by striking it right (which can be done), before he started skinning it I would have no problem with the video. The trappers and Native Americans of old did it that way in this country, and it has been done that way in other countries around the world, before. Whether you kill an animal with a rock, a club, a knife, a bullet, or with whatever other object you are killing it. The big problem was that the animal wasn't killed right, not that it was killed. That's an effectiveness problem, not a moral one.

 

[Lefty]

1-5 = irrelevant to the questions of humanity and suffering. You're equating torture to killing in every argument you make. They're not the same.

6 = simply wrong. Just because a smart dead guy said it, doesn't make it a valid argument. Calling something a lesser being is the easy way of rationalizing mistreatment. (see, e.g., Christians by Romans, Jews by everyone, Africans by whites, every religion by every other religion, etc.) Some pretty smart people thought those were great ideas.

this part "With that stated though I'm far from an ogre." = not buying. If we're going to set up arbitrary dichotomies, there is no reason that we shouldn't condone the killing of babies, mentally disabled, and other "lesser beings."

 

[cookie]

I was under the impression that Akubra gets its fur from Australian rabbits. Or was that in the past and have they now converted to Chinese rabbits?

Originally all Akubra fur was from our bush rabbits (introduced species c1850s) which in the early part of the 20thc (pre-myxamatosis = 1950) were in plague proportions (around 500million). When calicivirus was "accidently" introduced in the 1980s/90s the rabbit population that was recovering from myxo then crashed. Akubra then imported farmed fur from overseas. I believe New Zealand principally was the source but I might be wrong. The fur of course is not as robust as bush rabbit.

 

[ScottF]

1-5 = irrelevant to the questions of humanity and suffering. You're equating torture to killing in every argument you make. They're not the same.

6 = simply wrong. Just because a smart dead guy said it, doesn't make it a valid argument. Calling something a lesser being is the easy way of rationalizing mistreatment. (see, e.g., Christians by Romans, Jews by everyone, Africans by whites, every religion by every other religion, etc.) Some pretty smart people thought those were great ideas.

this part "With that stated though I'm far from an ogre." = not buying. If we're going to set up arbitrary dichotomies, there is no reason that we shouldn't condone the killing of babies, mentally disabled, and other "lesser beings."

I admittedly have little self-control - I had to come back in and see what you and rlk were posting. Figured it had to be entertaining.

Rabbit fur is also retrieved through natural selection - apparently more trees are chopped down by humans, than by beavers.

(I know, it gets very complicated)

 

[beatola]

Lefty is right

For consumers of luxury goods, the "Made in Italy" designation remains so prestigious that it can add 300% to an item's price. But the days of artisans plying their trade in little workshops are largely over, the Los Angeles Times reports, replaced by thousands of Tuscan factories employing Chinese workers at low wages and in deplorable conditions. For many, the labor is little more than indentured servitude.

Laws governing workplace safety and establishing a minimum wage have done nothing to stop the rise of Chinese manufacturing in Italy: workers put in 14-hour days to pay off debts and often sleep in cells in the factory compound. A recent exposé on Italian television led Prada to end its dealings with a sweatshop there. And while two identical luxury bags might sell for the same price, one made by Chinese workers will cost 90% less to manufacture.

http://www.newser.com/story/19540/made-in-italy-in-a-chinese-sweatshop.html


I know that Koreans and Chinese say that beaten dog tastes better because adrenalin gets into the dog's blood as it is being electrocuted or beaten... Maybe there is something about fur as well...

The Borsalino production facility is still in Alessandria so I am pretty sure there are still a good number of Italians working there.

 

[avedwards]

Originally all Akubra fur was from our bush rabbits (introduced species c1850s) which in the early part of the 20thc (pre-myxamatosis = 1950) were in plague proportions (around 500million). When calicivirus was "accidently" introduced in the 1980s/90s the rabbit population that was recovering from myxo then crashed. Akubra then imported farmed fur from overseas. I believe New Zealand principally was the source but I might be wrong. The fur of course is not as robust as bush rabbit.

Thank you for the info. I knew Akubra used to get it from bush rabbits, but I always thought they now got it from Australian rabbits which were bred in captivity. As long as they get it from a source which is humane I have no problem buying from them. If their fur is not as robust as it was in the past but still of good quality I wonder how good their quality must have been in the past.

 

[daizawaguy]

As long as they get it from a source which is humane I have no problem buying from them.

What do you call humane Sir?

 

[Wolfwood]

What do you call humane Sir?

I'd imagine humane in this context refers to a process where the animals are raised in relatively good surroundings and killed without torture. Not that that's "humane" as such, but it is better than some of the options.

 

[mayserwegener]

For consumers of luxury goods, the "Made in Italy" designation remains so prestigious that it can add 300% to an item's price. But the days of artisans plying their trade in little workshops are largely over, the Los Angeles Times reports, replaced by thousands of Tuscan factories employing Chinese workers at low wages and in deplorable conditions. For many, the labor is little more than indentured servitude.

Laws governing workplace safety and establishing a minimum wage have done nothing to stop the rise of Chinese manufacturing in Italy: workers put in 14-hour days to pay off debts and often sleep in cells in the factory compound. A recent exposé on Italian television led Prada to end its dealings with a sweatshop there. And while two identical luxury bags might sell for the same price, one made by Chinese workers will cost 90% less to manufacture.

http://www.newser.com/story/19540/made-in-italy-in-a-chinese-sweatshop.html

So this automatically applies to Borsalino which is located in Piedimonte and has around 200 employees? The following account of a recent Borsalino factory visit doesn't paint that type of picture! Can you or anyone else prove otherwise?

http://blog.villagehatshop.com/2007/03/sur_la_tte_desi.html

 

[avedwards]

What do you call humane Sir?

Exactly what Wolfwood posted beneath your comment.