How clearly do we really see 30s/40s/50s Style?

[Matt Crunk]

Not sure if this issue has been addressed before on this forum, but just how clear is our vision into real, everyday, Golden Era style?

Since most of us aren't old enough to remember the 60s clearly, much less the 50s, 40s or 30s, I wonder just how accurate our concept of day to day life in those days actually is.

Where do we get our info? Movies? Books? Magazines? All media would tend to skew and glamorize everyday life for the sake of entertainment, would they not? Certainly Hollywood did.

Old folks we know, like our grandparents? Maybe. But they too would probably tend to romanticize the past a bit. Remember the good. Forget the bad. That sort of thing.

Old photographs? Maybe. But most people back them didn't run around with a camera in their hand every day. If photos were being taken it usually meant a special occasion.

So just how true is our picture of common, everyday style and life in general as it was in the golden era? How colored by Hollywood?

Your thoughts?

-MC

 

[BJonas]

I used to have a problem with picturing classic era events in color, I guess because of all the b&w footage out there. Doesn't happen anymore, I guess because of all the movies I've seen as an adult that try to reproduce the era. I guess the movies then would color (forgive the pun) how I see the past. But truly, how do we accurately perceive a place or a time we've never been to, even if we've seen every photograph, heard every recording, even tasted all the foods that would have been available? It's still not the same as being there.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

To be frank about it, I'd say probably very imperfectly since my impressions were always filtered through a vintage Mitchell camera lens at 24 frames per second. Fact is, I could never pry any information out of the senior members of my family circle. (Most kids in other families had to be put into a Full Nelson to get them to listen to their granparents tell quaint, mind-numbing tales about the "Good Old Days". Me? I had an insatiable appetite to know about everything! And wouldn't you know it, my grandparents retained no memories of those times! A vein of irony runs very deep and wide in my family . . . .)

Old photographs, along with old Hollywood movies, were a very strong influence on how I viewed the past. The last 100 years - as depicted through the movies - always seemed to emphasize wit, character, dignity, decorum and honour. Which is to say, everthing that our modern world is utterly devoid of.

Matt, you may have - by extension of your original question - discovered the touchstone that binds many of here on this forum: namely, we're all a bunch of romantics and idealists living in a world that has increasingly little room for the finer graces that make it bearable.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

Matt, you may have - by extension of your original question - discovered the touchstone that binds many of here on this forum: namely, we're all a bunch of romantics and idealists living in a world that has increasingly little room for the finer graces that make it bearable.

That's probably the case for me, at least.

 

[Sefton]

This is an ongoing topic here which is only right considering our mutual interests. Many threads contain bits and pieces of answers. You can learn a lot from movies,but you always have to keep in mind that it's an idealized picture of "reality". Family photos and magazines usually give a more accurate view. I have a collection of LIFE magazines from the 30s which capture quite a few candid "man in the street" moments devoid of any hollywood staging. The best non-visual way is still talking to those who lived it or reading their writings.

 

[BJonas]

Matt, you may have - by extension of your original question - discovered the touchstone that binds many of here on this forum: namely, we're all a bunch of romantics and idealists living in a world that has increasingly little room for the finer graces that make it bearable.

Let's hear it for "progress"

 

[Girl Friday]

That is interesting, I have Everyday Fashions of the Thirties as Pictured in Sears Catalogs as well as the forties, and considering that the clothes I wear now don't exactly resemble the clothes that would be in a Sears catalog today, at least I have a reference. Hollywood and the media definately glamorizes everything, but I've also seen the FSA pictures from the Dust Bowl that Dorothea Lange took. Yes, simpler times and in a lot respects harder times, I guess it makes you appreciate the progress in some ways. The clothes and the music though, you can't beat 'em!

 

[scotrace]

No doubt

We often view the Golden Era through rose-colored glasses. It isn't that the bad from that time is somehow ignored or that we remain ignorant of the darker side. Curt absolutely nailed it, I think. We're romantics and we romanticize the period we study and in some ways emulate. Something was present then, in the good and the bad, that is lacking in our own time.
My grandfather (1898-1992) was a fine gentleman and snappy dresser. He worked in a steel mill for 49 years. He once told me "You can have the 'good old days.' We worked like DOGS for almost no money, and were lucky to have any work at all. People got sick and they often died of it. Nobody had any money and you couldn't even buy a glass of beer. There was no chance at all to just sit and relax as there was always something that needed fixed or washed or hoed"
The movies, with rare exceptions, glammed it up for audiences who went to the movies to escape, just as we look to the romantic, idealized, glossy version of the Golden Era and incorporate it into our lives today.
This is something I think about a lot as it is pretty fascinating. When you think of it, in many ways, the 1920's were THE high-flying, exciting years of change. An extraordinary time of social upheaval that actually had more far-reaching effects than the 1960's. A time of astonishing accomplishments in literature, art, fashion, technology. Just as amazing is that the innovations across the board continued into the years of the Great Depression, when there were plenty or reasons to hunker down and stand pat (and sink into emotional abyss) everywhere you looked. The difficulties, the inequalities, the poverty, made our parents and grandparents stronger, and taught them the lessons that today, make for our much better, more enlightened, yet still imperfect world.
We DO idealize that time. But I think we all also have a very stout realization that all was not roses for much of the population.

 

[Jay]

Me? I had an insatiable appetite to know about everything! And wouldn't you know it, my grandparents retained no memories of those times! A vein of irony runs very deep and wide in my family . . . .)

Wouldn't you know it, my Dad was the same way when I asked for details about him growing up in the 40's and 50's. Sometimes he can describe things perfectly, like how he was 7 when Pearl Harbor was bombed he was playing with some toy cars in the yard and my uncle ran out to tell him what happened, saw they were made in Japan, and stomped on 'em. And yet asking what kind of everyday clothes he wore gets a very fuzzy answer, even though it was a vague question. It baffles him and I.

 

[Archie Goodwin]

I've seen posted in other threads comments about how people dressed better all of the time than we do now. That may be true, but I believe you have to also consider the relative rarity of photography compared to today. Cameras, digital cameras, and cell phone cameras capture much more of our lives. Most of the pictures I have of my family from the 20's, 30's and 40's are from special occasions, where naturally everyone was wearing their Sunday best. Sears and Wards catalogs are probably a pretty good reference, because a substantial amount of off the rack clothing sold in this country came from places like that. I don't think we have comparatively dominant clothing retailers like that today. As far as what people really thought and felt, diaries and correspondence are good sources.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

Wouldn't you know it, my Dad was the same way when I asked for details about him growing up in the 40's and 50's. Sometimes he can describe things perfectly, like how he was 7 when Pearl Harbor was bombed he was playing with some toy cars in the yard and my uncle ran out to tell him what happened, saw they were made in Japan, and stomped on 'em. And yet asking what kind of everyday clothes he wore gets a very fuzzy answer, even though it was a vague question. It baffles him and I.

No doubt, part of the problem is the minutae that we find so historically intrigueing was quickly overlooked in the hustle to survive, to barely make ends meet. To paraphrase Scotrace's grandfather, the "Good Old Days" weren't very good in many ways!

On a positive note, we can choose to keep alive and appreciate the best qualities of those times while still enjoying the benefits of our own. I think this is the finest definition of the word "progress" that I can think of. It's also a fitting tribute to our ancestors who helped us to get where we are today.

 

[Matt Crunk]

old Hollywood movies, were a very strong influence on how I viewed the past. The last 100 years - as depicted through the movies - always seemed to emphasize wit, character, dignity, decorum and honour. Which is to say, everthing that our modern world is utterly devoid of.

Very true. But can't the same be said of modern movies, except maybe in a more updated, irreverent sort of way?

I mean moviegoers still want their hero to possess a certain amount of wit, character, dignity, decorum, and honour - even if he happens to be a cold-blooded serial killer.

-MC

 

[Matt Crunk]

namely, we're all a bunch of romantics and idealists living in a world that has increasingly little room for the finer graces that make it bearable.

AMEN. Well said.

-MC

 

[Wild Root]

Ah here we go again...

Well, as I've studdied the everyday life of the golden era and different types of places one lived and what happened day to day, I have a pretty good handle on what life might have been like. Did men really wear suits everyday? Well, it depends on where you lived and what you did for work. Business men did wear suits daily and most women did dress up rather well in the large Cities like New York, Chicago, LA, Boston and so on. In the smaller towns and farming comunities, you'll find a much more simpler form of dress. The only man in town who would have worn a suit was a school teacher or some one running a public office.

Food was hard to come buy, people were much more thankful for what they had... that's for sure. The throw away type of mindset wasn't invented yet. The Depression was hard... but, not on every one. If you were a star in Hollyood in the Depression, you'd have had a great time and would reflect on those days with warm nostalgia. If you lived on a farm in those days, you'd thank your stars you made it through it. Things were different for every one.

Life was harder then, it's the truth, it wasn't easy but, is life easy for us today? I should say not. More people are going to collage today then those days but, it's also due to the fact that people are getting into more debt then ever before. Most families are two income rather then the old single income. A young man or lady has to work one's tail off to get a head... we do have more tecnoligy advancements then they had which makes life more enjoyable for most but, back then, they were entertained to just have a radio or stand around the piano and sing songs and pop corn on the fire.

There are plenty of photos that were taken by some who were into photography... this link will show many photos of everyday folks in color and black and white...

http://rs6.loc.gov/fsowhome.html

Great photos, clear and crisp... all real life.

I've got photos of my Grandfather Smith in 1934... he was just wearing dark flat front pants with a short sleeved open collared shirt... his sister wore a dress... most clothes then were made to look fancy to a point even if they were casual.

Yes, there were lots of men and women who came down with sickness that we could take care of today... but, there is still people getting sick all over the world today with sickness that we're not able to cure. In a way, it's the same thing.

I love the fashion, cars, design, radios and house hold appliances of the 20's to the 40's... I choose to decorate with mostly vintage items and hope to have a 100% vintage home in the future.

As for cameras, people mostly wanted to take photos only on special days like Weddings, birthdays, family reunions, parties and the like. Or, if sone one bought a new car, they'd take a photo with the car on their happy day! Maybe some one saved up some money and bought a new suit... that was a day to take a photo... today, photo taking is easy! It's really neat, a friend can be shopping and I'd be at work, he can call me and tell me about something then, take a photo of it and email it to me... I can almost shop by his camera phone! lol When I take photos, I really do try and take nice photos of being dressed up and at some kind of fun event... I'm just old fashioned like that.

=WR=

 

[LizzieMaine]

My introduction to the Era came thru my grandparents -- not so much thru listening to their stories but rather, thru seeing how they actually lived. They were survivors of real Depression poverty, and that experience marked them for the rest of their lives -- how they thought, how they reacted to different circumstances, the choices they made. Just because I spent so much time around them as a little girl, a lot of their perspectives became my own: I act and think the way I do, to a considerable extent, because that's how I was raised -- in an environment that was immersed in a 1930s way of viewing the world.

Since then, of course, I've done a lot of researching on my own -- and a lot of it's focused on how ordinary working-class people lived and dressed and thought. When I read newspapers from the era, I don't just focus on the New York Times or some other high-class paper, but rather, I prefer the kind of papers average folks tended to read -- from the shabbiest urban tabloids to humble smalltown weeklies. It's publications like that where, if you read between the lines, you can get a real sense of how John and Jane Doe viewed their world.

And as far as fashion goes -- well, my look is more Sears and Roebuck than Lord and Taylor. I've always felt an old Sears catalogue is one of the best windows you'll ever find into the Era -- real stuff for real folks.

 

[Harp]

Culture

Very true. But can't the same be said of modern movies, except maybe in a more updated, irreverent sort of way?

I mean moviegoers still want their hero to possess a certain amount of wit, character, dignity, decorum, and honour - even if he happens to be a cold-blooded serial killer.

-MC

Speaking for myself (and not peering through rose colored glasses) most
of modern 'culture' cannot favorably compare with that of the Golden Era;
which, seen through a pragmatic prism is hardly a utopian period,
but a time when standards still existed.

 

[mmeckel]

mmeckel



Greetings,

I'm new to the Lounge. To be honest, I stumbled across you while looking for another topic. At any rate, I'm very glad I found such an insightful, curious and gracious group. Frankly, I don't know the list etiquette, so I'm unsure as to where I should position my response, above or below the post to which I'm answering.

I must agree that talking with older people and reading magazines, literature, and movies can be an enormous help. However, as mentioned by another member, far too often, movies of a given period were not in the least realistic. There are, of course, exceptions.

The film noir genre that followed World War II can be useful. Movies such as THE THIRD MAN, NATORIOUS, AND CASSABLANKA have much to offer.

For me, the most traumatic national event I experienced in my twenties took place in 1963, with the assassination of President Kennedy. I do applaud the movie, JFK, although I find myself reminding my daughter and other young people that the Oliver Stone production is not, in the strictest sense, a documentary, although I personally agree with his suspicion theory of conspiracy.

This movie moves very rapidly, so it is highly profitable to talk with older people who lived and agonized through this painful phase of our history. The subsequent assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy contributed to a major paradigm shift, one which was not entirely favorable. The incredulous events surrounding the Water Gate scandal didn't help one bit.

While many of us are well aware that John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were far from perfect human beings, their murders symbolized a shattering of hope, idealism, direction and stamina. My generation was confronted with the grim necessity of reassessing our perceptions of reality and ethnology. Yes, things like this could actually happen in America.

We often talked about the fabulous fifties and the soaring sixties. Don't let any of us kid you, the old days were not entirely good, even though much good did exist back in that era.

Younger women often look astonished when I mention that pantyhose didn't exist until the 1960s. Moreover, the nylon stockings we wore had seams! No joke. Making sure your seams were straight was actually a matter of concern. I won't even mention the dress code of the times, nor the necessity of wearing a girdle, no matter how thin you were. After all, your back side or butt was not supposed to wiggle.

I've undoubtedly said entirely too much in my post. Forgive me, older people tend to go on and on at great length.

All My Best Wishes,

mary in the prairie state of Nebraska
*******************************************************

This is an ongoing topic here which is only right considering our mutual interests. Many threads contain bits and pieces of answers. You can learn a lot from movies,but you always have to keep in mind that it's an idealized picture of "reality". Family photos and magazines usually give a more accurate view. I have a collection of LIFE magazines from the 30s which capture quite a few candid "man in the street" moments devoid of any hollywood staging. The best non-visual way is still talking to those who lived it or reading their writings.

 

[Wild Root]

My introduction to the Era came thru my grandparents -- not so much thru listening to their stories but rather, thru seeing how they actually lived. They were survivors of real Depression poverty, and that experience marked them for the rest of their lives -- how they thought, how they reacted to different circumstances, the choices they made. Just because I spent so much time around them as a little girl, a lot of their perspectives became my own: I act and think the way I do, to a considerable extent, because that's how I was raised -- in an environment that was immersed in a 1930s way of viewing the world.

Since then, of course, I've done a lot of researching on my own -- and a lot of it's focused on how ordinary working-class people lived and dressed and thought. When I read newspapers from the era, I don't just focus on the New York Times or some other high-class paper, but rather, I prefer the kind of papers average folks tended to read -- from the shabbiest urban tabloids to humble smalltown weeklies. It's publications like that where, if you read between the lines, you can get a real sense of how John and Jane Doe viewed their world.

And as far as fashion goes -- well, my look is more Sears and Roebuck than Lord and Taylor. I've always felt an old Sears catalogue is one of the best windows you'll ever find into the Era -- real stuff for real folks.

I'm a Sears man my self... love the "Every day styles" of Sears also, the working class type of life is more me then the high hat stuff.

Good taste Liz, I'm for that!

Younger women often look astonished when I mention that pantyhose didn't exist until the 1960s. Moreover, the nylon stockings we wore had seams! No joke. Making sure your seams were straight was actually a matter of concern. I won't even mention the dress code of the times, nor the necessity of wearing a girdle, no matter how thin you were. After all, your back side or butt was not supposed to wiggle.

I've undoubtedly said entirely too much in my post. Forgive me, older people tend to go on and on at great length.

All My Best Wishes,

mary in the prairie state of Nebraska
*******************************************************

Very well said... and very true! Great first post I must say! Welcome to the Lounge, we're happy to have yet another new face!

I like your whole post but, the last part struck me... most girls today get all fussy about just doing something with their hair... they have no idea what work went into going out only 50 years ago.

=WR=

 

[Elaina]

I agree with LizzieMaine, what I learned came from relatives that lived in that time. I had an Uncle that was the only male in his family of 5...and he worked from 11 to support them. I also had a family of strong, independent women, and that colored it too.

Fashion-wise, none of the women ever wore anything from Sears. Because of the depression (and other things) they all felt like they had to wear Chanel, Dior or other name brands from that time, even if they made it themselves. I had a G-Aunt that could make anything, and I do mean anything, look like it stepped from the pages of Dior. Even to her death in the early part of 2003. And if you couldn't afford those clothes, then you learned to sew. And you picked apart every seam until it looked better then the pictures.

So my view was always one of old guard South: you better look and act like you've got the money to burn even if all you have is a wish and the wind. It's not rosy where I came from, or was taught, it was hard. Hard work, hard times and hard and fast rules to keep up with. You kept a stash of food on hand you could "whip up" and make it look like it was nothing. You had money stashed from every paycheck so you could do what needed to be done. And you shared with your neighbors because they were on hard times, and lord knows it could be you next.

Much of what I learned was kickbacks to the Civil War. My great Aunt even pointed out that much of the Depression would have been harder had it not of been for her grandmother's lessons by HER grandmother from the war. And it was like that all over the south (at least according to her).

Even now, I tend to remember those. I drive a crappy car, and I guarantee no one is going to see me get out, or in, my car. Why? Because it shows I can't afford the best. I have 10 pairs of shoes. Which leads back to the lesson of poor people wear worn shoes.

So nope. My view on the Golden Era isn't realistic, nor rosy. It's the view of women who loved hard and stupid, who were too progressive for their time and who were going to look like they had money even if it killed them.

 

[scotrace]

.

Elaina, this is excellent, excellent stuff. I'm going to be thinking about this for awhile. You've sort of opened a new door - was there a demand for dignity no matter the financial circumstances? Was 'hide the reality' also a northern Depression-era thing?
I keep thinking about the generation born in the early - mid 1920's. So much promise when they were young and so much exciting change was afoot, only to have it stolen time and again. From the Depression through WWII and the Cold War, capped by the 60's unrest and tragedy. We may call it the Golden Era, but it was also an era of many agonies. A century of almost inconcievable change.

My grandmother made sure her home was spotless. Mom also, though not so maniacally. And mine? always a struggle. But that seems quite rare today. Maybe it is related to a loss of that "going to look like they had money even if it killed them."

Thanks for a great post.