Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Classics

[Bruce Wayne]

the thing that gets me about the phrase "rat rod" is that anything with wheels & flat paint nowadays is considered a rat rod. back in the day, having what we now consider a rat rod (primered paint & such) was only one step in the process of building a full fledged hot rod. there are people out there who order fiberglass body panels out of a catalog, rattle can them with flat black primer, & call it a rat rod. primer offers no protection from the water & other elements. primer "primes" the surface to get it ready for paint. you want a suede job on your ride, don't cover it in gloss clear.

 

[David Conwill]

Actually DuPont says its modern primers offer up to 10 years of weather protection. And I suppose on fibreglass it doesn't really matter.

But yeah, "rat rods" are very much an image thing, recreating a snapshot of a perceived version of the 1950s.

-Dave

 

[BellyTank]

"Rat Rods" are very cool.
But taking the essence of what a rat rod is, having read a lot, seen a lot, known a lot of people who enjoy the style and have built such machines-
and that many of the people who have built and own such cars distance themselves from that term- a true Rat Rod can be something built over a couple of weekends, with found parts, using the "old ways", I think it's a very valid and admirable expression of the pure-ness of rod-building and culture.

That was my longest sentence today.

And the "modern primer on fibreglass" thing is very true but
fibreglass does not a "Rat Rod" make.

It's not a styling issue.


B
T

 

[Talbot]

I have always been a traditionalist. I try and be a lot more open minded about these things than I was as a teenager going to rod runs some 35 years ago. Its just comes down to labels and definitions.

Having said that, in the last few years there are some folks that feel the need to push the envelope. I have seen some r-word cars that I can only imagine were built to offend.

Waving your willly in public is illegal, building and driving a deathrap is not .

Luckily those vehicles would never pass inspection down under.

What ever happened to the expression 'Shot Rod'

 

[David Conwill]

What ever happened to the expression 'Shot Rod'

I can't say I've ever heard that one very much - about as often as Jan & Dean's "Schlock Rod."

-Dave

 

[Edward]

I always thought it would be pretty cool to have two same-model, same year cars from, say about 48 or so.... one restored to stock condition, the other 'rat-rodded' - almost as if they represented different stages of 'life' for the same car, under different owners. flat black looks pretty cool on a car, but I doubt I could live with it permanently. It's closer to the style of hot rod I prefer, though - a car designed for everyday use, with uprated (but period correct) parts to give it sufficient oopmh for daily use. If I was in need of a car myself, a mid sixties Morris minor with the engine and gearbox out of an early 70s MG Midget would be an attractive option. That Midget 1275cc A Series isn't much on paper over the 1098cc stock motor, but it adds a surprising amount of poke to a Minor.

 

[David Conwill]

That would be a splendid little car. I wouldn't mind a mid-fifties Morris Minor myself. My grandparents moved to Japan in the mid-fifties and discovered their '52 Buick was too big for the roads over there - they sold it and bought a Morris.

So far as flat black goes, I've never cared for it. I far prefer red oxide or gray primer. Bud Crayne's coupe was red oxide primer, so that's good enough for me!

-David

 

[Talbot]

If I was in need of a car myself, a mid sixties Morris minor with the engine and gearbox out of an early 70s MG Midget would be an attractive option. That Midget 1275cc A Series isn't much on paper over the 1098cc stock motor, but it adds a surprising amount of poke to a Minor.

Mazda rotary with 5 speed seems to be a pretty popular swap for these cars. A friend fitted this combo to a convertible Minor for his wife's daily driver. Very perky and streetable.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Actually DuPont says its modern primers offer up to 10 years of weather protection.

I believe you are thinking of prime/sealer. Regular primer offers no protection from the elements.

WOOT! 500 posts!!!

 

[David Conwill]

I believe you are thinking of prime/sealer.

Yeah, when I said "modern primer" I meant epoxy primer versus old-style lacquer or enamel primer which are porous and will absorb moisture. The DP series - DP90 being the rat rod standard (with John Deere "Blitz Black" enamel a close second).

-Dave

 

[John in Covina]

Here's my take on the whole shebang.

I really like classic vintage cars whether concours restored or with good patina.

I like hot rods but best if they are authentic. I have a little distain for the 1932 Ford that has a 350 Chevy motor in it with the 700 trans and the mustang II front end. It's not a 1932 Ford, or as we can say in those scenarios, "they don't make'em like they used to!" They can be cool cars and neat to drive but they ain't vintage. Sometimes it's painful, think of taking one authentic Tom Mix's personal hats that someone made into a stingy brim or drawing a cartoon on the back of a Lincoln handwritten letter.

Now there are vintage hot rodding engine parts still being made so that flat head V8 can be performance but still vintage.

Ratrods are the continually unfinished rod and are (if well done) ugly and beautiful at the same time. Experiments and a work in progress has those interesting 'Make Do" aspects that add intrigue.

 

[Edward]

Mazda rotary with 5 speed seems to be a pretty popular swap for these cars. A friend fitted this combo to a convertible Minor for his wife's daily driver. Very perky and streetable.

Yeah, there's been a wide variety of things used over the years. I've even seen one with a Ford Capri engine and box.... The Fiat 1600cc twin cam drops right in, onto the stock mounts - just requires some modification to the transmission tunnel for the box to fit. Another popular mod is the Rover K series, single cam engine and five speed box, as fitted in the Metro in the early 90s. With the standard, single-cam 1600cc K series engine, a Minor can go 0-60 in under ten seconds, with a top end of 140mph, and 38-40mpg.... talk about efficiency!

 

[DetroitFalcons]

Here's my take on the whole shebang.

...

I like hot rods but best if they are authentic. I have a little distain for the 1932 Ford that has a 350 Chevy motor in it with the 700 trans and the mustang II front end. It's not a 1932 Ford...

Hear hear!

I like hotrods that have vintage parts in them that are true to their heritage. However, I'm a AMC fan and they used parts from everyone so I guess I just contradicted myself. But I get your point, a 32 Ford should have a flathead imho.

Speaking of the wrong engine in a car, I really like the rat rod PT has (Paul Tracy). I usually run thru the hot rod magazines at the book store and saw his wooden roof rod. This link show it: http://www.legendarycollectorcars.com/featured-vehicles/radical-rat-rod-revealed-really/

 

[David Conwill]

a 32 Ford should have a flathead imho.

See, I really like early overheads in '32s, a 331 Cadillac or a 303 Olds is just as cool as a flathead in the right car.

And I've seen plenty of flathead-powered rods that were just as wrong as can be - billet pulleys; ugly, modern heads; ball-milled air cleaners on a 4bbl carb, etc.

DetroitFalcons - are you a member of the Metro Detroit FCA Chapter? Or is there another "Falcon" reference I'm not getting?

-Dave

 

[DetroitFalcons]

See, I really like early overheads in '32s, a 331 Cadillac or a 303 Olds is just as cool as a flathead in the right car.

And I've seen plenty of flathead-powered rods that were just as wrong as can be - billet pulleys; ugly, modern heads; ball-milled air cleaners on a 4bbl carb, etc.

DetroitFalcons - are you a member of the Metro Detroit FCA Chapter? Or is there another "Falcon" reference I'm not getting?

-Dave

Dave,

You make some good points about early overheads. I guess I just said flathead because I'm sick of seeing 350 Chevys in rods.

As for the username, it refers to the name of the Red Wings before they wore the winged wheel jerseys. I'm a hockey nut/jersy buff. Before the falcons, they were the Cougars, then name the franchise had in Victoria.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But I get your point, a 32 Ford should have a flathead imho.

What about a flathead Ford with a hop up kit to convert it to a OHV setup?

 

[David Conwill]

Ah yes, the ARDUN, or perhaps...

...a Maxi?

Actually, I think the Maxi was an F-head setup with overhead exhaust valves, but the intake valves still in the block (note the stock-type intake manifold).

-Dave

 

[David Conwill]

I doodled this up this morning while daydreaming about this thread. It’s meant to be an illustration only, but I think it’s a pretty good explanation of what I envision when I use these terms.

The Quintessential Traditional Hot Rod:

1929 Ford roadster on 1932 rails (pinched) with a Deuce grille; no hood or fenders. Mor-Drop axle. 1948 Mercury flathead V8 w/Offenhauser intake and heads. 1939 Ford floor-shift 3-speed transmission. 1940 Ford rear axle, four-wheel hydraulic brakes, and 16-inch steel wheels. Bias ply Firestone black-wall tires, 6.00 and 7.00 by 16. Maroon tuck-and-roll Naugahyde bench seat. Stewart-Warner curved-face mechanical gauges in an Auburn panel. Gloss black.

The Quintessential Street Rod:

1933 Ford coupe on aftermarket chassis w/billet grille; full fenders, 3-piece hood w/solid hood sides. Mustang II front suspension. 1986 Chevrolet 350 V8 w/Edelbrock 4bbl or GM TPI, Sanderson headers, HEI and some kind of ball-milled valve covers. GM TH-350 3-speed automatic w/Lokar shifter in an upholstered console. Lincoln Versailles 9-inch rear axle, 4-wheel disc brakes, and 15-inch Boyd’s directional billet wheels. White Letter radial tires, 185/70/15 and 235/70/15. High-back buckets upholstered in beige or gray tweed. Dakota digital gauges and a tilt-telescopic column. Aqua w/purple “Crayon” graphics.

The Quintessential Rat Rod:

1928 Buick 4-door sedan channeled over an S10 chassis with an International Harvester Farmall grille; no hood or fenders. Severe top chop, rear doors welded shut, no top insert. 318 Plymouth V8 w/fiberglass skull or Maltese Cross air cleaner, otherwise stock. Some kind of automatic - whatever was bolted to the back of the engine, w/extremely long Lokar shifter (through the roof, if possible) equipped with a beer tap as a knob. Stock S10 rear axle, stock S10 brakes, and stock S10 wheels painted red. Denman L78 wide whitewalls in back, cheap 185/70/15 radials in front w/spray-paint whitewalls. High-back buckets upholstered in Zodiac (“metalflake”) vinyl; alternately, Dodge Caravan bench seat w/Mexican blanket. No gauges, S10 column w/a 1960s boat steering wheel, equipped with a big spike in the center. Flat black w/prodigious pin striping.

I think you can see why the guy with the first car would be a little grumpy when the uninformed lump him in with the guy with the third car.

-Dave

 

[Talbot]

^^^^^^^^^^^:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Sisu]

Rat rods, the dirtier and more custom, the better.

I love seeing shiny chrome grills on faded paint, whitewalls, good pinstriping.
Saw one the other day that used an old ammo box for a battery hold.